Coil Denitrator

[JHardman]

OK, I will start off the thread...

After doing a fair amount of reading and some more reading what I finally came up with is that the more elaborate denitrators with containers and bio balls (or not) are not really needed, just the tubing.

So with that hopefully correct conclusion I stopped by HD tonight and put together one.

Parts list:

(4) 25' rolls of 1/4"OD semi-rigid plastic tubing. The same thing you would use to plumb a RO/DI unit only semi clear.

(3) Quick connect unions

(1) Quick connect "ball" valve (on hand).

Total cost <$20 with tax.

I left the tubing bundled together, took enough out of the first roll to reach a tank above (held in place by a clip). Started a siphon, the put a union on the end and connected it to the next roll and so on until the water was running thru all 100' of tubing. Then adding the ball valve on the end with a short section of tubing running beyond the valve. Place that end into the output of the skimmer.

I set a drip rate with the valve of about 1 drop per second.

Now we shall see if this works...

Sure was nice that the drain pipe was in just the right place to hold the rolls of tubing.

Here is a close-up of one of the unions...

 

[Dman]

Jhardman,
That's pretty much what I did, except that mine is not attached to my skimmer. Just one caveat, using clear or semi-clear tubing is a pain 'casue algae will grow inside the tubing and eventually block it off. Order the black stuff from www.usplastics.com
Dman

 

[Dman]

dragon slayer over in the DIY forum builds them for fellow RCers' and starting one up i read goes something like this:
Fill the tubing with water, let it sit for one week.
Add a couple of grains of sugar and let it sit for another week or two, then start it up.
Dman

 

[JHardman]

dragon slayer over in the DIY forum builds them for fellow RCers' and starting one up i read goes something like this:
Fill the tubing with water, let it sit for one week.
Add a couple of grains of sugar and let it sit for another week or two, then start it up.
Dman

I have heard/read that too, but it was always in reference to reef, aka low nitrate systems. I got the impression that with high nitrate level tanks that the addition of sugar and a total off time to start wasn't really needed, maybe I am wrong, but that was the impression I got.

The algae that grows in that system does great in the dark, so having black tubing wouldn't help, only make it hard to find the blockage.

So how well has yours been working? Numbers are most helpfulââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦

 

[rsman]

in the end you will more likely need the container of bio balls, its a total nitrogen load thing, in a normal tank when these are setup there are generally high nitrates but the day to day increase is minimal, so once the coil kicks in the nitrates drop and the coil has enough surface area to knock out all the nitrate, in a breeding system thats not the case (ok at least not in mine)

with .170 tubing you can easily get away with 2 50' runs

when cycling to speed up the cycle, let them run full open for a few days then crank them down you really want about 8ml in 3:30sec for the 100' run and 8ml in 5:00 for the 50' run ive rounded those up then once the unit has cycled you need to slowly speed that up as the nitrate drops. and without the bio ball chamber it will be required of you to adjust the flow based on the nitrates/nitrites coming out of the coils. nitrite == speed up, nitrate == slow down.

 

[rsman]

DS definately does these for reefs, but he is cool!!!

messing with sugar will only tend to agrivate you !!!

definately dont go dark for the algae darn stuff grows everywhere

 

[JHardman]

in the end you will more likely need the container of bio balls, its a total nitrogen load thing, in a normal tank when these are setup there are generally high nitrates but the day to day increase is minimal, so once the coil kicks in the nitrates drop and the coil has enough surface area to knock out all the nitrate, in a breeding system thats not the case (ok at least not in mine)

with .170 tubing you can easily get away with 2 50' runs

when cycling to speed up the cycle, let them run full open for a few days then crank them down you really want about 8ml in 3:30sec for the 100' run and 8ml in 5:00 for the 50' run ive rounded those up then once the unit has cycled you need to slowly speed that up as the nitrate drops. and without the bio ball chamber it will be required of you to adjust the flow based on the nitrates/nitrites coming out of the coils. nitrite == speed up, nitrate == slow down.

This is on my growout system which has high nitrates in the >100ppm to <300ppm range. It is fed heavily multiple times each day, so I don't think there is going to be a problem with nirtate production.

I really don't think the black tubing is going to be the end all for my algae. Really the stuff that grows in this system only grows where it is dark with lots of flow.

 

[rsman]

guess i botched that reply

what I was trying to say is black tubing wont help.

I figured you would be using it on a system full of nitrates but thats when that bio chamber is needed, clearly i didnt make that clear either.

incase I totally hozed it you DO need to test the output ocasionally and adjust it if you find either nitrites or nitrates

 

[Fredfish]

Hmm... If it grows in total darkness is it really algae. I thought all algae was phototrophic (sp?).

A little off topic, I know, but inquiring minds want to know.

rsman. Do you really do zero water changes in your hatchery setup?

Fred.

 

[Fredfish]

Oh yea, another question. If light on the tubing isn't an issue, is there really any need to put the tubing inside a pvc tube/container. What jhardman did seems a lot more strait forward.

Fred.

 

[rsman]

one advantage of putting the tubing IN the container is you pick up bio surface and keep everything together, but that tube/container does serve a dual purpose, if done right (badly worded, umm if you set one up with the bio chamber??) the coils will only remove oxygen, the tube will house the bacteria that actually removes the nitrate, the increased surface area and decreased oxygen allow for systems with sustained high nitrate levels to have an effective denitrifier.

as for algae in the dark, if it looks like a duck, flys like a duck, sounds like a duck it must be a duck right i donno what I get, but it blocks the black tubes just as fast as the opaque(same type Jhardman used) tubes

I dont do any routine waterchanges on the SW *FISH* side of my setup. a while ago i had to add coils to my coil denitrifier to keep up, and for the last few months ive been busy doing all sorts of things, including expanding so i do have new water.

 

[rsman]

btw some co2 and acrylic beads make good tube cleaners if the coils are unwound a tad, also unwinding reduces resistance.

 

[Fredfish]

It is indeed a duck, just might be a bacterial duck instead of an algae duck. I know, its a moot point

I understand that the coils, if put inside a container, add surface area, but there are other ways to create surface area as well. (bioballs, plastic beads etc.). Darn, I knew there was a reason I sould have kept those bioballs.

It seems from a maintenance point of view - like if you have to slightly uncoil your tubing to unclog it - it would be easier to keep the coils external to your denitrator.

Fred.

P.S. rsman, thanks for sharing your wealth of info on setting up a breeding system. Between you and jhardman I have learned so much.

 

[rsman]

i know i mentioned it somewhere but my coils ARE outside the chamber also. a huge advantage of outside coils is you can add coils to expand the unit and when there is a stuburn clog you can work that area a little, I havent had too much clog problems in a while sence i started using a micron pre filter donno what size ive forgoten ill have to see if i posted that its not too small i can see the holes

 

[Wild Card-inal]

Wow, this is pretty interesting... Few questions, though.

1. I suppose this requires a system under the tank, right?
2. How do you clean a tube without having to re-cycle the system?

 

[rsman]

1. nope you can set one up to have a powerhead in the tank deliver the water to the coil then to the sealed bio chamber then back to the tank

2. you dont "clean" the tube, you want it dirty, well you want bacteria on it. you only unclog the tube. if you use co2 to help unclog the tube (alone or with an acrylic ball) the bacteria will not be harmed

 

[Dman]

1. I suppose this requires a system under the tank, right?

I think you might be able to run one off a powerhead, but gravity is a sure fire thing

2. How do you clean a tube without having to re-cycle the system?

You could just cut out the section that is blocked and join it together?

Can you use a nice neoprene tubing? If you can then all you would have to do is rub the spots where it's clogged.

Dman

 

[Wild Card-inal]

If you use a powerhead, won't the flow be too fast? If the input is many gallons per hour, and the output is only a drop or two per second, won't the pressure just build up and up? I don't really understand...

Neoprene tubing? How much more expensive would that be?

Sorry, this is some of the first I've heard of these systems, and I'm not really sure how they work.

 

[rsman]

neoprine is probibly a bad idea, but I dont know for sure,

clogs really are not that common.

you would put a bypass on your powerhead some of the water would go to the coils the rest would not. a simple T with 2 valves on it will do. on My setup my sump pump provides pressure to the coil but the output is back to the sump so there is little pressure on the coil. also the drops per second is when its cycling you can open it up much more once the unit is cycled ***just do it slowly***

 

[Wild Card-inal]

Oh, I get it now! I dunno if I've ever seen a T-valve that attaches to a powerhead like that, I kinda wanna see pics so I know what to get... In a set-up with a powerhead, would it be possible that the end regulating the drops actually gets pushed off by the pressure, or am I being paranoid?