Considering a Mandarin, how to prepare for success?

[ReefsandGeeks]

I have always wanted a mandarin dragnet but always read how they need a large tank and an established pod population to survive. Since I've gotten into the hobby with a 37 gallon tank, I've wanted one but been responsible and not even tried because I've never had a refugium to keep a pod po[pulation, and have always had a tank that is too small. I now have a 150 gallon tank with a sump and am considering adding a fuge to it.

I'm not in a rush, but if I want to prep my system to keep a mandarin, what should I be doing? How big of a fuge would be required to keep a healthy pod population to maintain a single mandarin? how long in advance would pods need to be added in order to breed a large enough starting population? What would need to be fed to the tank, if anything, to maintain the pod population?

Would anything about my filtration need to be changed in order to give the best chance of sucess in keeping the mandarin and pod population? Currently, my filtration consists of felt filter socks, live rock rubble, GFO, GAC, and a protein skimmer.

I want to get a realistic idea of the set up and work/cost it would be to maintain a mandrin before I decide if I want to go through with getting one or not.

 

[j.falk]

You would probably be more successful long term with a captive bred one that is already eating frozen foods to supplement the pods.

https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/captive-bred/fish/green-mandarin/

 

[marcom12345]

Following.


My first thought is filter socks nay "filter out" pods...

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[Uncle99]

So I keep one Mandarin in my DT for more than two years now. He eats nothing but PODS.
70g tank, 1 year old mature rock before putting him in, he is the only Pod eater I keep.
I have never added any PODS ever. No sump, no refuge, just rock and sand lots of fish and a ton of corals.

 

[scattered]

Following.


My first thought is filter socks nay "filter out" pods...

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Pods will filter through even the finest filter sock. I keep 100 micron filter sock material as a pod home in my 2nd overflow chamber.

I keep a Biota aquaculture mandarin in my nano. I have a supplemental pod grow out tank with filter sock homes to rotate in the DT. He eats frozen but I know the pods certainly do not hurt. He has never depleted the full pod population, there are always still 100s on the glass so thousands are in and on the rocks.

They ship very small, mine was about 1/2" when he arrived. They are typical gobies, they do not spend a lot of time in the water column but in the rock work.


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[MondoBongo]

in a 150 gallon tank with no direct competition for food (think wrasse and the like), i wouldn't be concerned about keeping one dragonet. as long as you have a decent amount of rock, you might not even need a fuge. it would still be an excellent idea to have one, there are many benefits to them outside of growing pods, but in that size tank you should be just fine.

my general rules for dragonets:

1. tanks over 55 gallons are strongly preferred, with 75 being my idea of the ideal minimum.
2. no competitors like wrasse (some wrasse may also be outwardly aggressive to the slower moving dragonets)
3. good amount of rock in the tank
4. a nice sand bed (no bare bottom, please) you'll get as many or more pods in your sand bed than you will your rocks.
5. fuges are always a great idea, but if you're good on the above steps, might be able to be skipped as long as....
6. you're not running an ULNS (ultra low nutrient) system
7. treat any discreet feedings offered by you as supplemental. due to how they digest, it's best that dragonets are allowed to graze constantly, as opposed to getting a few meals provided by you every day. in my experience it can be difficult to get them to take prepared, and even if they do they're usually too slow and are last to get to any if there's even anything left.

They ship very small, mine was about 1/2” when he arrived. They are typical gobies, they do not spend a lot of time in the water column but in the rock work.

they're actually not gobies at all, but rather dragonets.

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. I'm starting to think it just might work out to get one I don't have any other fish that would compete for pods, and do have a sand bed and decent amount of rock. I had imagined getting one a bit bigger, maybe 2" or so.

I guess one more compatibility question I just thought of...Any chance my porcupine puffer would attach a mandarin? I've never seen it go after any of my fish, including a bicolor blenny and pair of mature clowns. Smallest fish I currently have is a 1.5-2" clown, and the puffer never pays any attention to him. I know puffers don't normally eat fish, just snails/shrimp...etc. Puffer is currently about 6" long.

 

[cvrle1]

A lot of folks have reported success with DIY target feeder for mandarins

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-target-feeder-mandarinfish-pipefish-2804/

And since RC blocks the other forum, I cant include link to a really good thread on there about these. If you search on the other site for "Thanks PaulB- Mandarin feeder" it will be one of the 1st threads.

 

[Uncle99]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. I'm starting to think it just might work out to get one I don't have any other fish that would compete for pods, and do have a sand bed and decent amount of rock. I had imagined getting one a bit bigger, maybe 2" or so.

I guess one more compatibility question I just thought of...Any chance my porcupine puffer would attach a mandarin? I've never seen it go after any of my fish, including a bicolor blenny and pair of mature clowns. Smallest fish I currently have is a 1.5-2" clown, and the puffer never pays any attention to him. I know puffers don't normally eat fish, just snails/shrimp...etc. Puffer is currently about 6" long.

Mandarin does not pay much attention to others.
Should be fine

 

[scattered]

My Biota was eating frozen brine shrimp last night. It is finally big enough.

Just spend the money and buy the fish that is already eating dead food.


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[scattered]

in a 150 gallon tank with no direct competition for food (think wrasse and the like), i wouldn't be concerned about keeping one dragonet. as long as you have a decent amount of rock, you might not even need a fuge. it would still be an excellent idea to have one, there are many benefits to them outside of growing pods, but in that size tank you should be just fine.

my general rules for dragonets:

1. tanks over 55 gallons are strongly preferred, with 75 being my idea of the ideal minimum.
2. no competitors like wrasse (some wrasse may also be outwardly aggressive to the slower moving dragonets)
3. good amount of rock in the tank
4. a nice sand bed (no bare bottom, please) you'll get as many or more pods in your sand bed than you will your rocks.
5. fuges are always a great idea, but if you're good on the above steps, might be able to be skipped as long as....
6. you're not running an ULNS (ultra low nutrient) system
7. treat any discreet feedings offered by you as supplemental. due to how they digest, it's best that dragonets are allowed to graze constantly, as opposed to getting a few meals provided by you every day. in my experience it can be difficult to get them to take prepared, and even if they do they're usually too slow and are last to get to any if there's even anything left.




they're actually not gobies at all, but rather dragonets.

They are referred to as Green Mandarin Goby as well as Dragonets. They are not gobiidae and diverge at the family level. The behavior is why they are commonly referred to as a "˜goby'.


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[Thornbreaker]

Does anyone know if you put two juvy mandis in a tank, if like clowns, one will change sex?

Would like 2 for my 170 gallons/w sump, but I know they need to be male/female which is hard to determine when they're juvy.

What's the implications of adding a 2nd, known sex, months later? Would they get along if not added at the same time?

 

[MondoBongo]

They are referred to as Green Mandarin Goby as well as Dragonets. They are not gobiidae and diverge at the family level. The behavior is why they are commonly referred to as a "˜goby'.


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i'm aware of the colloquial use of the name, but it's incorrect, and can often mislead people about the fish's requirements.

so when you say "They are typical gobies", they're not typical gobies.

 

[MondoBongo]

Does anyone know if you put two juvy mandis in a tank, if like clowns, one will change sex?

Would like 2 for my 170 gallons/w sump, but I know they need to be male/female which is hard to determine when they're juvy.

What's the implications of adding a 2nd, known sex, months later? Would they get along if not added at the same time?

i do not believe they change sex like some other fish.

mandy compatibility is tricky. i wouldn't necessarily expect them to get along at all, regardless of when they were added. my mandy killed a scooter that i added to the tank. i had thought they looked different enough that hopefully they would ignore each other, but sadly that was not the case.

for best results i've seen people suggest mixed-sex pairings are the best chance for success. however that has some caveats as well.

 

[Uncle99]

Does anyone know if you put two juvy mandis in a tank, if like clowns, one will change sex?

Would like 2 for my 170 gallons/w sump, but I know they need to be male/female which is hard to determine when they're juvy.

What's the implications of adding a 2nd, known sex, months later? Would they get along if not added at the same time?

Nope...that's a clown fish adaptation.
Males tend to be larger and have a noticeable spine on the dorsal.

Make sure you do not have two males or it will end in one.

This fish does better on its own, multiples are very hard to feed over the long term.

 

[Thornbreaker]

Thanks. I'll just stick with one unless I see a bonded pair pop up on LA or something.