Cooking Live Rock - Exact Process?
- Thread starter reefsociety101
- Start date
Richard Francis
In Memoriam
SeanT said:phrawd,
Do a little research man.
There are two huge threads on this subject in this forum.
The one we are in and one started by me.
Nothing survives except bacteria, sponges, pods and an occassional polyp.
Certainly not aiptasia.
Your SPS corals actually look better than when you start, there is a lowering of PO4 in your tank when you cook your rock because you take the majority of PO4 out...the rock.
Why not just pressure wash it?
Richard Francis said:
IMPHO you would make your live rock dead, base rock, unless you are pressure washing w/ saltwater. The idea of cooking your rocks, which still sounds painful to me - as a male, is that the denitrifying bacteria still exists. Taking a pressure washer will eliminate the surface crap, but the kudies that are deep down in the rock still exists. At least that is my feeble mind's take on it.
HTH
David
Richard Francis
In Memoriam
dkh0331 said:
The bacteria will quickly resettle when put into a tank. I have used dead rock in several set-ups. Additionally, getting all of the coralian algae off the rock will improve its porisity. This will improve anarobic bacteria locations. You can also soak it in acid!
SeanT
Premium Member
Richard,
You are missing a few points.
The biggest one being the effects of bacterial turgor.
If you pressure washed it, you would knock the big crud off the rock and nothing more.
The bacteria 'drill' inside the rock pulling all of the crud out.
In effect, giving you clean rock, inside and out.
Sean
You are missing a few points.
The biggest one being the effects of bacterial turgor.
If you pressure washed it, you would knock the big crud off the rock and nothing more.
The bacteria 'drill' inside the rock pulling all of the crud out.
In effect, giving you clean rock, inside and out.
Sean
Richard Francis
In Memoriam
SeanT said:
I think you are wrong, where did you get this drilling bacteria knowledge? Who did the studies?
Live rock is used because it is porous. Anaerobic bacteria can exist there and utilize dissolved nitrates as food. When those pores are covered with crud and coralline algae, the porosity is reduced as is its ability to filter your water?
SeanT
Premium Member
I know I am right.Richard Francis said:
I am not debating this with you, do your own research.
Here is a start. Rock cooking, it does work.
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SeanT
Premium Member
Nick,
Think of "cooked" rock as a fresh start.
You got rock from another reefer, and LFS or online.
The former owner of this rockmay have overfed, didn't have good nutrient removal practices, low flow, never blew the rocks or had die off.
Cooking is getting rid of the crud.
(Disclaimer, not everyone is a bad rock caregiver )
Once the rock has been cleaned, it is dependant on your husbandry skils how long it is clean.
Sean
Think of "cooked" rock as a fresh start.
You got rock from another reefer, and LFS or online.
The former owner of this rockmay have overfed, didn't have good nutrient removal practices, low flow, never blew the rocks or had die off.
Cooking is getting rid of the crud.
(Disclaimer, not everyone is a bad rock caregiver
)Once the rock has been cleaned, it is dependant on your husbandry skils how long it is clean.
Sean
Richard Francis
In Memoriam
SeanT said:I know I am right.
I am not debating this with you, do your own research.
Here is a start. Rock cooking, it does work.
Very logical and scientific response! Maybe you should freze it and then use it as a nutrient sorce later when more "drillers" are available!
SeanT
Premium Member
But since the Search button doesn't apply to you.
Here: "Bacterial Turgor" search.
Here: "Bacterial Turgor" search.
SeanT
Premium Member
And a Google "Bacterial Turgor" search.
Richard Francis
In Memoriam
SeanT said:
I did your silly searches and Bacterial Turgor is pressure in the bacteria cell walls. It has nothing to do with cooking rock! Nice deflection!
SeanT
Premium Member
Oh for the love of...what is it you don't understand?
Bacterial turgor (pressure) will drive the detritus (and associated organics/phosphates) out of the rocks and clean them for you.
Bacteria in live rock have something to push against and shed detritus. So it can be physically removed by you or through mechanical filtration that you have set up.
Bacterial turgor (pressure) will drive the detritus (and associated organics/phosphates) out of the rocks and clean them for you.
Bacteria in live rock have something to push against and shed detritus. So it can be physically removed by you or through mechanical filtration that you have set up.
Bacterial turgor refers to the pressure inside the bacterial cell. it is caused by the in-flow of water across the semi-permeable membrane. Since the membrane is largely impermeable to large molecules, bacteria with turgor will not be reducing detritus. While I don't dispute the observations that 'cooking' can work, I also don't see what turgor would have to do with it. Turgor is more commonly used in the context of plant cells - it is what makes stems stand-up.
I don't see what bomber describes as being 'turgor'. First, I assume he must add water or some other liquid to the yeast (or else nothing will happen). Then, the bubbling will be to do with the yeast metabolism and production of gases.
Another alternative is that it is being suggested that bacterial growth inside the rocks will 'push out' detritus, etc. (sort like an absess). This isn't turgor in the usual sense of the word. In any event, it is hard to understand how there would be enough growth for that to happen. Plus, the bacteria would eventually degrade and produce more organics, etc.
Have there been any actual studies to prove that the mechanisms you describe takes place?
I don't see what bomber describes as being 'turgor'. First, I assume he must add water or some other liquid to the yeast (or else nothing will happen). Then, the bubbling will be to do with the yeast metabolism and production of gases.
Another alternative is that it is being suggested that bacterial growth inside the rocks will 'push out' detritus, etc. (sort like an absess). This isn't turgor in the usual sense of the word. In any event, it is hard to understand how there would be enough growth for that to happen. Plus, the bacteria would eventually degrade and produce more organics, etc.
Have there been any actual studies to prove that the mechanisms you describe takes place?
Bomber
10 & Over Club
Sorry guys, arguing for the sake of arguing is a moot point.
A few years ago we needed a word to describe bacterial pressure/migration/bacterial transportation of nutrients in marine sediments. Turgor was the word that was adapted as a catch all word to describe that. We all understood that it was a new adaptation of that word and understood what it meant.
Think of it this way. If there was no bacterial migration of nutrients, denitrification would not happen.
A few years ago we needed a word to describe bacterial pressure/migration/bacterial transportation of nutrients in marine sediments. Turgor was the word that was adapted as a catch all word to describe that. We all understood that it was a new adaptation of that word and understood what it meant.
Think of it this way. If there was no bacterial migration of nutrients, denitrification would not happen.
I don't know about others, but I am not arguing to the sake of arguing. If 'we' (presumably meaning marine biologists) have adopted 'turgor' to mean something other than the meaning in more mainstream contexts, you can hardly be surprised if that isn't universally understood. Providing a clarification would be the most productive way to proceed.
But, you didn't answer the more fundamental question: are there research studies which have documented that 'turgor' or bacterial pressure can clean out detritus, etc? I thought that worms, etc. were more involved with creating detritus?
But, you didn't answer the more fundamental question: are there research studies which have documented that 'turgor' or bacterial pressure can clean out detritus, etc? I thought that worms, etc. were more involved with creating detritus?
