Cooperband Butterfly Help

[rjallen]

Thanks RJA. Unfortunately I do not have a refugium... He took some bites at some clams today. I am curious though: do you keep the clam the whole day in the QT? I have been told to leave them no more than 15min in this thread, but I do think that if I left it longer the CB would eat more...?

I do have an oversized filter and protein skimmer in the QT, which I feel could handle the dissolved organics of leaving the clam longer.

First, I am talking about a fish only QT tank. My CB has one Royal Gramma on his side of the partition and the Yellow Tang on the other. {see below}.
Secondly, I am talking about a very small clam on the half shell. They average 1.25 in length x .50 width. I put these in my tank for the DAY. Take them out in the evening. This is the plan when we are at work. I don't usually use them when we are home but I see no problem leaving them for an hour or two. The classic advice of putting no more than what your fish can consume in 5, 7 or 8 minutes, [I have seen all the above times] make very good sense when you are using food than spreads everywhere. It also makes sense from the point that you want your fish to eat immediately in a display tank as that insures the fish gets its share.
Right now, you are trying to get the fish to eat. A very small clam will not spoil in a few hours. I would not want to leave it overnight.

As to live clams, what you get at a fish market may be alive but are not in the best of shape. There is a very real difference in eating a shell fish within minutes of a dive and after it has been on ice for hours if not days. Secondly, almost all are cold water species and will die within minutes in 78-80 degree water. Lastly, some CBs do pick at calms sold for our reef aquariums. That's because these guys have massive mantels and some never completely seal their shells. Food calms shut tighter than....well a calm. Most would bury themselves in the substrata and die quickly.

All. I am trying to acclimate a small yellow tang with my CB. I have been removing the partition for a short period. The partition is egg crate and each fish is very familiar with the other. It seemed to be working until today. I took out the partition and WAM! the tang barreled over to the CB and tried to fight. Not a close swimming, not just a little bullying. Until today, the CB sort of just put up with the *sshole behavior and even chased the tang away. This time the little CB took a fright and hid behind rocks for a long time even after the partition was replaced. I have successfully acclimated tangs into community tanks and even with other tangs. I know when it gets serious and it did today and very quickly. If it comes down to the tang or the CB.... you know who goes. Anyway, I am going to get a mirror and see if that helps.

Any ideas?

RJA

 

[stevec23]

VJV I'm glad to hear your CB nibbled at the clam. He has only been with you a couple days so it's not surprising he doesn't have much of an appetite. I suggested only 15 or so minutes because as said they can't take the warmer water and I believe they are freshwater clams so it will just decay in the tank. But it is a good sign the fish is showing some interest now. You could even try some frozen bloodworms if you wanted but they don't offer much nutrition.

 

[VJV]

Cooperband Butterfly Help

Thanks, again to both. My QT is also fish only with no substrate or rocks. I only have the CB in it at this point.
The clams I buy here in Portugal are saltwater and generally very fresh, but you are right: they are used to cold water so would probably die quick. And yes, they do shut like a clam

RJA, unfortunately I can not give you much advice on your Tang issue, other than what you probably read. I was going to add a tang but if the CBB makes it I won't. Perhaps just a small Tomini tang, which I heard were peaceful.

Good luck with your community!

 

[VJV]

As a side note, even though I am relatively new to the hobby already have witnessed first hand that each fish has a specific character, and general comments about behavior may or may not apply. I had a Kole Tang which is supposed to be peaceful, but he bullied every singly new addition I brought home!! A male Lyretail Anthias was constantly harassed and when I added a flame angel the Kole went after him and eventually killed him!

 

[VJV]

Update:

My CBB today seems much more relaxed in the QT. Instead of darting front to back he is now peacefully cruising the tank, and finally ventures inside some large pieces of PVC tubbing that I placed in the tank.

Still not eating much though. He seems very curious about the clams and gets real close, but have not seen him take a bite today...

 

[VJV]

Cooperband Butterfly Help

HURRAH! MY CBB IS EATING WITH GUSTO!

After trying garlic enriched Brine that he did not even tried, and live clams which he would occasionally take a bite if I hand fed them, I went back to the LFS and bought the entire range from Ocean Nutrition Frozen foods. I bought Formula one, VHP, Brine enriched with spiraling and garlic, mysis, Clams on the half shell. Oh, and I also bought a Flame Angel to keep the CBB company . I was hoping that having an active feeder (but not an aggressive one)in the tank showing him how to do it would stimulate the CBB to feed. The CBB chased it around for a while but it settled down. The Flame Angel is a bit intimidated and hides a bit, but nothing too serious.


I initially tried the Formula one food, which theoretically is made for omnivorous fish such as the CBB, and he did not take it. I than tried the VHP (Very High Protein) and again, he did not show a lot of interest. Both these foods have a gel binder so they do not float into a million pieces when placed in the tank, and I was hopping these would be a better match for the CBB natural feeding instincts.

Today however, I feed mysis and as soon as it hit the water BAAM!! The CBB was snatching every piece he could find straight out of the water color, including the surface!! Everytime he takes a bite I can hear a loud snapping noise from his jaws!

Very, very happy!

 

[lespaul339]

I just got a Copperband yesterday. Ordered him from the same online vender as RJ Allen. Mine showed up smaller than advertised as well. Was supposed to be a 4" fish but is closer to 3". Seems very healthy, and has lots of energy right now. His belly isn't shrunken in, but he isn't nice and fat either. He gets spooked when I put my hand in the tank but has no problem coming up to the front of the tank to check me out when I'm looking at the QT tank. He is in my QT with a Pajama Cardinal. Both fish already like to hang out together.

Right away after I put him in the QT he was pecking around the tank acting like he was hungry. I tried feeding him some frozen mysis yesterday and he showed interest in it but spit it out. He kept trying to eat little pieces here and there, but kept spitting them out. At least the pajama cardinal cleaned up the stuff he didn't eat. After that I tried frozen blood worms. He showed no interest at all. I grabbed a piece of live rock from my tank and put it in there with him last night. I know there are pods in the rock as well as some mini brittle stars, and there are tons of aptaisia on the rock. So far he hasn't even paid attention to the live rock. I'm hoping that if I can't get him to eat right away that he will at least find some stuff on the live rock to eat.

I'm going to try soaking some mysis in garlic. I think since he is showing interest in the mysis that soaking it in garlic might entice him to eat it. I am going to try that over my lunch hour today and will let you guys know if he eats it. If not, I am going to earl may tonight to pick up some enriched brine shrimp. I also might see if they have some fresh water clams there, if not I'm going to go to the grocery store and see if I can find some oysters. I also have some frozen carnivore cuisine, I haven't tried that yet and may give it a shot tonight. If none of the food I mentioned above works, I'm going to order some live blackworms.

I really hope I can get the fish to eat. He is already my favorite fish. They are so cool to watch and just an awesome looking, beautiful fish. I even broke my rule of not naming a fish until they make it through QT and gave him the name Rusty.

 

[Paul B]

My favorite fish. I have been keeping copperbands since the 70s and they are great fish. Here is a video of mine eating live blackworms that he and all my fish get every day.
This one I got about the size of a quarter, now he is my largest fish about 5"

 

[VJV]

https://vimeo.com/109936859

Here's a video of my new fish in the QT hanging out together. Room it with the iPad using the Tapatalk app so resolution is very bad, but hopefully it gives you some idea. Both are large fish, the CB easily 4-5inch long.

 

[VJV]

Cooperband Butterfly Help

Paul B, a question for you: how much should I feed them daily? For a 4-5'' CBB and a Flame Angel that is 3-5'', would you say that one cube of frozen mysis per day is the right amount?

Thanks!

 

[rjallen]

Lespaul339: Strongly suggest, if can't get the b. worms locally, order some worms today so you have them Monday. Another idea there may be someone growing white worms in your area. They are easy to grow but are a pain to harvest and clean for each meal as they grow in dirt. I have never seen a commercial source for them.
VJV That's really a nice big fish. Thanks for sharing the video.

My little guy is doing well. I am sure the black worms have saved his life. My internet source is of the highest reputation but I don't think my CB ever ate mysis or brine. They told me all the CBs had been in house for over a month before they started releasing them one every other day on their website. I wonder what my fish was actually eating during that time. But I do want the thank Paul B. His one man black worm crusade is what made me take the Copper Band Leap of Faith.
Paul B: Do your CBs eat other food besides....clams, mysis or other frozen food? I have a well cycled QT and had a large pod population. My CB is in the process of eliminating them. I am hoping to get the little guy eating more than pods and black worms. Thanks for your help, again.

RJA

 

[VJV]

You are very welcome . I am posting below a link to a YouTube video, hopefully you guys can watch it with better resolution. Let me know if it does not work. A I state in the video, my CBB is eating frozen Mysis from Ocean Nutrition.

Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/mS-Zui6qKcI

 

[lespaul339]

RJ Allen, who did you get your live black worms through?

 

[rjallen]

RJ Allen, who did you get your live black worms through?

PMed you.

RJA

 

[Paul B]

For a 4-5'' CBB and a Flame Angel that is 3-5'', would you say that one cube of frozen mysis per day is the right amount?

It may be enough for those 2 fish but frozen Mysis is not the proper food for a copperband although it will eat it. As was said live worms are the best thing and the reason people find copperbands so difficult as they eat mostly worms in the sea as I have swam with them. I would also give him clams. I buy a chowder clam and freeze it, then shave off paper thin slices. Clams are better for copperbands than Mysis which is mostly shell. Instead of Mysis I use frozen plankton. I get it about a quarter inch long which is perfect for a copperband of that size. So live worms are best, then clams, then plankton.
Here is a video of mine stealing new born brine shrimp from the feeder that is for the mandarins and pipefish. Newborn shrimp are to small for him but he will eat anything.

 

[lespaul339]

Over my lunch hour I tried garlic soaked mysis, nothing. I tried carnivore cuisine and nothing. I tried frozen reef plankton and nothing. But...I did see him pick a worm out of the chunk of live rock I have in there and eat it!

So he is eating, just not what I'm offering him. He is swimming around that piece of rock and sticking his mouth in every nook and cranny that he can. I know that piece of live rock is not enough to sustain him for very long. I need to get some live black worms asap! I'm going to be up in Minneapolis tomorrow, anyone know of a place up there that sells live black worms? I ordered some live black worms but could pick enough up to get me by until Tuesday.

 

[mattgumaer]

Little necks are what got my copperband eating. I still feed them to him. He also picks at the rocks in the tank but I haven't seem him eat much else. I guess this means no maxima clam in my future......

Matt

 

[VJV]

It may be enough for those 2 fish but frozen Mysis is not the proper food for a copperband although it will eat it. As was said live worms are the best thing and the reason people find copperbands so difficult as they eat mostly worms in the sea as I have swam with them. I would also give him clams. I buy a chowder clam and freeze it, then shave off paper thin slices. Clams are better for copperbands than Mysis which is mostly shell. Instead of Mysis I use frozen plankton. I get it about a quarter inch long which is perfect for a copperband of that size. So live worms are best, then clams, then plankton.

Here is a video of mine stealing new born brine shrimp from the feeder that is for the mandarins and pipefish. Newborn shrimp are to small for him but he will eat anything.

Thanks Paul! Unfortunately I do jot have worms in my LFS. Clams I have tried but he was not too interested in. We'll see in he eats the other Ocean Nutrition foods.

 

[rjallen]

It may be enough for those 2 fish but frozen Mysis is not the proper food for a copperband although it will eat it. As was said live worms are the best thing and the reason people find copperbands so difficult as they eat mostly worms in the sea as I have swam with them. I would also give him clams. I buy a chowder clam and freeze it, then shave off paper thin slices. Clams are better for copperbands than Mysis which is mostly shell. Instead of Mysis I use frozen plankton. I get it about a quarter inch long which is perfect for a copperband of that size. So live worms are best, then clams, then plankton.
Here is a video of mine stealing new born brine shrimp from the feeder that is for the mandarins and pipefish. Newborn shrimp are to small for him but he will eat anything.

Paul B

I've got the black worms down, CBB sucks them down like a vacuum on steroids. Using Hikari clams on the half shell. My Copper Band picks at the entrails but leaves the flesh alone. He strikes at the occasional piece of brine shrimp or mysis but spits them out. I am interested in your statement above and I am wondering if you would clarify the following:

Instead of Mysis I use frozen plankton. I get it about a quarter inch long which is perfect for a copperband of that size. So live worms are best, then clams, then plankton.

What is your source for the plankton? Brand name? Is this krill? When I think about plankton, I don't envision 1/4" chunks. My guy will pick at something in Rods Original Blend Reef Food. His foods are promoted as providing a wide range of food of many sizes suitable for all sizes of fish and coral too. My fish seems to be eating something tiny- pod size- in this mix. He ignores the bigger pieces You New York guys have access to all sorts of things not carried anywhere else so I hope your plankton is a widely available brand as I want something frozen to feed the guy.

Thanks
RJA

 

[Paul B]

The stuff I use is Ocean Plankton by Hikari. I also don't know what is in Hikari clams but I would imagine there are preservatives that your copperband may not like. I use real, live clams which you may not be able to get in North Dakota. It is not krill which is large.