Copepod Problem (Not Mandarin Related)

[Gladrial]

I'm new to the hobby, having researched and dreamed about it for years and years, and finally taking the plunge in April. It has been tremendously successful for the most part. My only issue is that I cannot seem to sustain a copepod population to save my life. The only fish I've had die on me turns out needed the copepods (I was unaware).

Details about my tank:
1) It was professionally set up by very knowledgeable people in the field. They've been doing it forever and haven't steered me wrong once. Things I've been afraid to introduce because of research they've assured me would work because they know what they're doing and have backed it up with their wallets, offering to reimburse me months down the line if anything went wrong. They've gone out of their way to guide me through this process, always available for my phone calls (and I've pestered them quite a bit), and are accredited by the better business bureau. If I seem like I'm rambling it's only because I know there a lot of people in the biz that seem to care more about their wallets than the health of their fish.

2) My tank is a 46 gallon bowfront with a ton of live rock. I know I should know the specifics but it escapes me at the moment. I started on 30% live rock (all Caribbean), but my tank has done so well that it all as been taken over by coral at this point and I'm assuming they could all be considered live. Very nice colors everywhere.

3) I have a lot of different kinds coral such a mushroom corals, gonoporias, etc. The fish I have (in order of tank introduction) are: 2 clown fish, 1 hippo tang, 2 neon gobies (all introduced together), 1 scooter blenny, 1 flame angel, 1 royal gramma. All of this fish listed here are on the small side (maybe even tiny) with the exception of the flame angel which is of medium size.

Problem: I can't sustain any copepods to save my life. It seems weird to me that with everything else thriving, copepods would not be, as the majority of my fish species do not eat them from what I understand. The professionals that help out with my tank are rather confused by it as well. The only thing I've had die on me was the scooter blenny. I was unaware that they ate copepods (oops) and I purchased another before I realized the problem. The professionals that help with my tank were so nice that they rushed over with some extra live rock and algae that was crawling with the buggies and put them in my tank free of charge. "You just let these sit in here for a month and bring them back after that," they offered, feeling it would set up a sustainable population. Keep in mind that my current scooter blenny is very, very small, but I still don't see these bugs anywhere! AAAH!

I won't lie, I'd LOVE to have a mandarin but can't even begin to think about that right now because I can't even sustain a teeny scooter blenny. Any ideas about what's going on in my tank?

One more thing: I don't know if this has anything at all to do with the problem, but my tank is a snail breeding ground. I don't get why, but I have microscopic, baby snails freakin' everywhere!

Thank you all so much in advance for any help you can give me.

 

[billsreef]

A couple of comments come to mind. One a BBB rating is meaningless in terms of figuring aquarist ability. A small Hippo Tang will outgrow a 46 bowfront fairly quickly. A Scooter Blenny, even a small one, will eat large amounts of copepods in short order. The other fish will also eat a fair amount of copepods. Likely predation is the main reason your not seeing any sort of copepod population. Also, depending on what sort of filtration they set you up with, they could be getting filtered out. You might also want to use the RC search feature to do a search on the sight for Goniopora, someplace is a rather long and informative thread on the care of what is a coral with a dismal long term survival rate.

 

[philosophile]

Live rock also varies in terms of ability to help maintain copepod populations. If it has a lot of nooks and crannies and surface area, the better it'll filter and the more surface area and escape areas copepods will have to breed safely.

 

[SpartaReef]

Not sure about goni long term survival, but mine is growing.... As for pods, have you looked in your tank at night? Pods tend to hide during the day...

 

[Gladrial]

Thanks for all the quick replies and information!

"One a BBB rating is meaningless in terms of figuring aquarist ability."

Really? I thought it was significant. Every other saltwater business that has set up in my area has been reported to the BBB by someone at some point, has gotten abysmal reviews, and didn't last long, including those with a more professional facade than the people I do business with. I guess all that really matters is that they are treating me and their fish well.

"A small Hippo Tang will outgrow a 46 bowfront fairly quickly."

Mine has scarcely grown at all, but is really happy. I'll keep an eye on it though. My plan was if anything got too big in my tank to exchange it for a smaller one and since I use the same water as the company I buy most of my fish through, it shouldn't go into shock if this does end up happening down the road.

"The other fish will also eat a fair amount of copepods. Likely predation is the main reason your not seeing any sort of copepod population."

No kidding?! They all eat them?! Well, I guess that makes sense. If it moves, it's food. Perhaps the amount of fish I have in a small tank makes it impossible for the copepods to sustain themselves. Knowing this, I may give back my Scooter Blenny for an exchange. I didn't get into this hobby to watch fish starve.

"Also, depending on what sort of filtration they set you up with, they could be getting filtered out."

We've looked at that. I should see the copepods stuck to the filter then, right? Nada. I'm guessing you're right about the predation.

"You might also want to use the RC search feature to do a search on the sight for Goniopora, someplace is a rather long and informative thread on the care of what is a coral with a dismal long term survival rate."

I did. A lot. I was really nervous about putting them in. I have been assured by the company that I go through that they do a thorough job inspecting and cleaning them and watching them in their own tanks before selling with a year to ask for reimbursement as a back up if they start to crash. Mine are doing great! They're big, full, and beautiful. One even reproduce. Baby gonos! If in the long run I'm not happy, I will go in a different direction.

"Live rock also varies in terms of ability to help maintain copepod populations. If it has a lot of nooks and crannies and surface area, the better it'll filter and the more surface area and escape areas copepods will have to breed safely."

I've got lots and lots and lots of that. My tank is, like, 2/3 full of live rock and it's full of little hidey holes.

"As for pods, have you looked in your tank at night? Pods tend to hide during the day..."

Are you kidding? Every night, hoping and praying with a flashlight. It's not even so much about getting the fish I want anymore as much as I wonder if lack of copepods is a sign of a healthy tank or not.

Again, thank you all for devoting a little time to me and my situation.

 

[SpartaReef]

I have ordered pods from reefs2go in the past, I have so many now it will be a long time before I need more. Check them out, and I suggest starting a refugium to grow your pods in.

 

[Gladrial]

Thanks for the advice. I've only just learned about refugiums and am considering trying one out. How big of one would a 46 gallon tank need and are they bulky in the back? I'm not sure I have enough room between my tank and wall for one to hang on. I can't even begin to imagine the task of moving the tank and the furniture it sits on forward. Oy!

 

[billsreef]

With looking for copepods on a filter, you'd need a strong magnifying glass, especially for the small nauplii stages.

For a refugium, there are several ways to go about setting one up. Commercial hang on the back, make your sump into one, set up seperate tank that is plumbed in to the display, etc.

 

[SpartaReef]

I use my sump under the tank stand as a refugium, also my overflow and I keep liverock rubble in a corner of my tank, as well as the porous rocks in the display. I ordered over 8000 pods from reefs2go and they've been breeding... My mandarin, as well as my other fish have been fat and happy since the day I adopted them.

 

[ninja66999]

a fuge would probably be your best bet, i dont see you getting much of a population in your display with the amount of species listed in a 46.

 

[SpartaReef]

I don't think its possible to keep a population of pods in a tank without a refugium.

 

[timinnl]

Do you know what species of copepods they are? Also if the are pelagic (swimming in the water column) or benthic (living on the surface & in/around the live rock.)?

Kind Regards,

Tim

 

[SpartaReef]

Reefs2go sends you a mix of both

 

[dkeller_nc]

You might consider the feeding aspect. Most commonly available copepods like Tsibe and Tigriopus are phytoplankton feeders. Yes, you can grow copepods, at least certain benthic species, on detritus from a reef. But I would argue that you can grow a considerably higher density if you feed phytoplankton to the tank.

There are commercial preparations that you can by like Reed Mariculture's Reef Nutrition brands, but "phytoplankton" can be as simple as cleaning the glass on your tank every day just before lights-out with the skimmer off for a couple of hours.

 

[Gladrial]

I never thought about cleaning the glass before dark before, but that totally makes sense. I clean it all the time but usually in the middle of the day.

I have no idea what species of copepod my tank should have, but am considering buying some just to see who the major culprit of eating them may be. My bet is the flame angel. It's a piggie. If I were to purchase some, what species is recommended?

I think I should just consider myself fortunate that vast majority of my tank is doing so well considering the amount of fish in the 46 gallon. Like I said, this isn't about getting a specific fish as much as just making sure my tank is healthy. As much as I'd like a mandarin, I will simply watch and wait and possibly save it for a future tank / tank upgrade with a refugium if this one never develops the pod population it needs.

Had I know copepods were the primary diet of a scooter blenny I never would have gotten one. You see tons of information about the difficultly of taking care of mandarins, but I've never seen one on a scooter blenny, so I just assumed they were easy to care for. Lesson learned: thoroughly research every fish no matter what.

Although I'll admit a miraculous thing happened today. I was putting some new coral I purchased in my tank and cleaning the glass while my little sister watched. She said, "What's that?" and pointed to a spot in the sand. "That's a copepod!" I exclaimed, very excited and watched it scamper under a rock. It was a big one too, making me hopeful for the future.

Thanks again for everyone's advice and assistance. I think I'm going to like it here. :fish1:

 

[gcline87]

Every few gym for help maintain a pod population inside your tank. As an alternate option you can have a small 10 gallon tank, or appropriately sized container, dedicated for growning copepods. There are great websites on how to do this, but it is basically a small bubbler, regularly dosing small amounts of phytoplankton, and cheato and luve rock for breeding grounds.

This has several advantages: 1, they have a safe place to grow. 2, you can dose phytoplankton to the copepod tank without having a phosphate explosion and your display tank. This is one of the major advantage over a refugium set up. 3, phytoplankton dosing rapidly increases your pods reproduction.

Because scooter blennies stay on the bottom the sand most of the time I recommend benthic types of copepods. Tisbe is a tropical benthic copepod that would work great in your system.

 

[gcline87]

Sorry iPhone auto correct. That first sentence was supposed to be:

"A refugium can help maintain a copepod population."

By the way here is a great website on culturing copepods. ww.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/breeder

 

[billsreef]

If something was on the sand and scampering, I'd bet it was amphipod.

Copepod:

 

[gcline87]

I haven't done much research on amphipods as I'm not a fan of their large size . I know that's weird but they kind of gross me out. You are correct that most copapods live in the water column. Here is some general info I pulled off line. Hope it helps.

Tisbe is a harpacticoid (benthic) copepod ranging from 0.7-1.0mm, and are the single most popular species for marine aquaria. Tisbe adult copepods live on bottom substrate such as live rock or sand and will eat detritus and microalage (productive member of your CUC). They produce a small nauplii which is an excellent food for aquarium filter feeders (corals) and fish larvae. The adults are eaten by small bottom feeding fish such as gobies, dragonettes and blennies. Being a tropical species they thrive in warmer aquarium water. They also are hardier and easier to sustain cultures.

 

[Gladrial]

I've heard that refugium can be tricky and introduce bacterias and what not to your tank. Is this true and, if so, how common a problem is it?

"As an alternate option you can have a small 10 gallon tank, or appropriately sized container, dedicated for growning copepods."

That's a great idea! I just looked up some information about it. I like the idea of separating the tank with a divider in case one population crashes for some reason. They aren't pretty to look at though. I honestly don't know where I would put one where it'd be out of the way for guests. I'd stick one in the garage but that's not climate controlled. This may have to wait for a future venture, but looks like the way I'd want to go.

"If something was on the sand and scampering, I'd bet it was amphipod."

I'll bet it was. It was shaped just like that only it was kinda bluish. Do amphipods serve a specific purpose in my tank or are they just along for the ride?