Copperband Butterfly Diagnosis Assistance

[bu11itt]

I have a Copperband Butterfly that has been in QT for almost a week now. He is surprisingly outgoing and is eating PE Mysis very well, if not a little methodical. Last night I noticed a white patch on his left side just above his eye. It appears to be "œfuzzy" and kinda "œcottony" as best I can tell. There are not well defined, sharp edged spots. I have attached two pictures that aren't very good but might help. I have researched and found it could be Lymphocystis, however at this point it does not appear to be shaped like cauliflower.

He did flash that spot on the PVC hiding spot in the QT tank once or twice last night right after I noticed the spot. I have not seem him do it again, but that doesn't mean he still isn't.

Does ich ever present itself in early stages in a fuzzy areas before it get more sharp edges?

I'd like a decent diagnosis before I set forth on a treatment regime that could be quite stressful. Thanks for the help.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I can't tell much from the pic; it isn't ich. Ich resembles salt grains. “Fuzzy” and kinda “cottony" are the buzz words for fungus. The fungucide I used once in a while is no longer around, but any fish fungus cure should work. Don't waste time on money on one of the many herbal cure-alls that claim to cure everything, but don't do anything.

Fungal cures and CBBs both do best in extremely clean water. I'd keep him in the QT until this clears up.

 

[bu11itt]

Thanks for the advice. I had always heard that fungal infections/attacks in marine aquaria where rather rare, but not unheard of. I've done a little research and found the following drugs for treatment of fungus:

Malachite Green
Methylene Blue (a more gentle treatment for sensitive fish compared to Malachite Green. I am assuming a Copperband Butterfly would qualify as sensitive?)
KanaPlex

Does anyone have any experience with any of these for fungal treatment?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Yes, fungal infections are quite rare in fish and often a secondary infection to a bacterial infection and/or wound. I think its smart to use an antibiotic with a fungal med; to cover all of the bases. Cottony or fuzzy stuff is almost always fungus.

Meth. blue and Mal. green have been around forever and are still decent fungus meds. They are often combined with othe meds, antibiotics or parasite killers. I wouldn't trust either to really cure a serious fungal infection (I don't think they can be dosed heavily enough); they are more of a preventative, such as protecting eggs from fungus. I have some Kanaplex, but haven't had to use it. I like the idea of a fungal med that's used on the fish, rather than just dumped into the water column. Kanaplex is a SeaChem product and I really like that company. They have great phone tech-help; 888-seachem I think. I'd call their tech support and ask them if KP is the right call and ask their advice on an antibiotic. SeaChem's web site is a good source of info on their products; but (IMO & IME) nothing beats 1 on 1 help.

 

[bu11itt]

I am 99.9% sure that it is not ich at this point. I'm leaning more towards bacterial/fungal attack. The spot is now more of a "sore", not quite an open sore, but definitely an area of concern. I think he just aggravated it with constant scratching.

I did speak with a SeaChem representative (very helpful, even gave me some suggestions of other meds to try if I couldn't find their product in town) and decided to give the KanaPlex a try.

Well I went searching at the only LFS in town that handles saltwater, PetCo (got to see what I am almost positive is ich there, fish covered in salt grains), PetSmart and 90% of what I found would probably be considered by most as "snake oil". Things like, "herbal", "100% natural", "reef safe", etc... I did almost buy "Super Ich Cure" by API, but only because the active ingredients were malachite green and nitrofurazone; two things I thought might help.

In the end I decided I was going to order the KanaPlex anyway, so why waste money and have to worry about mixing meds or a large water change just before using the KanaPlex. I came home and saw the Copperband was doing well, not great, but still good, eating and swimming freely. I went ahead and ordered some KanaPlex for Friday delivery (too late for overnight to actually be overnight).

Well today when I got home the Copperband is obviously not feeling well, he is hiding in his PVC pipe and is so lethargic I was able to hand catch him to examine the wound up close.

Now he's in the QT tank with lights out trying to give him as stress-free an environment as possible. I'm hoping he pulls through until tomorrow when the meds arrive and it's not too late for him.

I don't want to sound to callous, but if I do end up losing him this only further solidifies my commitment to QTing all new fish, rather lose just one fish than a whole tank full of fish.

 

[bu11itt]

Well I'm sorry to say that the Copperband didn't make it to Friday morning.

I'm still curious what got him so I can be better prepared for next time so here are some pics of the aftermath for a postmortem diagnosis.

You can see the original wound as well some additional areas that appear to be affected by the same thing. There are no torn or frayed fins and his eyes appear clear.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Based on your postmortem pics, my best guess would be an aggressive bacterial or even fungal infection. Uronema is also a possibility. CBBs are not the hardiest of fish so I think it was probably unlikely that you could have saved him. Lowering the temp to slow down the progression of the infection and treating with something like Furan-2 would have been your only shot. But still a long shot IMHO.

 

[MrTuskfish]

^^^^I agree^^^^

New CBBs seem to decide their fate very early. If they are in good health on arrival and begin eating quickly, they generally do well. If they look lousy from day one, they are very tough to bring back. Many years ago, I went nuts with these fish, I just couldn't keep one through just a quarantine period. I finally got one from Australia and he thrived. After re-locating after Katrina, I got another Aussie and its doing great, had him over 5 yrs now.

I'm convinced the origin of CBBs has a lot to do with success. I expect Australian fish to always do well, even though they can be a bit pricey. I avoid any species of fish from The Phillipiines or Indonesia whenever possible. Unfortunately, most CBBs come from these two Countries. There are a few from The Solomon islands and other places I like, but they can be tough to find.

 

[MrTuskfish]

^^^^I agree^^^^

New CBBs seem to decide their fate very early. If they are in good health on arrival and begin eating quickly, they generally do well. If they look lousy from day one, they are very tough to bring back. Many years ago, I went nuts with these fish, I just couldn't keep one through just a quarantine period. I finally got one from Australia and he thrived. After re-locating after Katrina, I got another Aussie and its doing great, had him over 5 yrs now.

I'm convinced the origin of CBBs has a lot to do with success. I expect Australian fish to always do well, even though they can be a bit pricey. I avoid any species of fish from The Phillipiines or Indonesia whenever possible. Unfortunately, most CBBs come from these two Countries. There are a few from The Solomon islands and other places I like, but they can be tough to find.

 

[moisesderota]

so sorry

so sorry

sorry he didn´t make it, I had one that died out of the same thing, that´s a fungus infection. Luckyly we have now on the market here in Spain a new food for buttelflys and difficult to feed fish and it´s working great. I´ve seen chelmons eating it after one our from arriving, hope you guys can get it soon, things are much easier with these type of fish. See ya...