Coral & Anemone fragging - techniques

[Anthony Calfo]

sounds like a very cool idea, Erik. I can see a magnificent staghorn-ish species growing to a magnificent tangled mass from such an effort So many neat fish behviors to observe for such displays too.

 

[causeofhim]

Re: ANEMONE PROPAGATION
And I'm praying to God that this and any anemone is not kept in reef tanks with corals... a staggeringly unnatural mix and the reason in part why so many fare so poorly in time.... is just bad husbandry and bad technique.
The anemone should already be in a dedicated tank. Then after some months of conditioning and establishment...

Do you forsee problems if these tanks are all connected to the same sump as well? For example a 120 gal SPS tank, a 60 gal anemone tank, and a 60 gal propagation tank all using the same 100 gal sump and skimmer. Would there be problems with propagating the corals and anemones in their dedicated tanks if all tanks share the same water?

 

[Kreeger1]

've got a nice 14-16" piece of blue tip staghorn that might get a little haircut. hummm maybe a few 8-10 branch tips off the top sliced and glued to the rock its growing on.
Its tall not a wide colony, 2 main branchs that reach up lie 10 inches before they start to branch off.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

separate tanks on central filtration does very little to assist in optimal propagation of any given coral or anemone unless you have extraordinary water quality (huge weekly or better), daily ozone, weekly carbon exchanges, etc.

The sensation (chemical) of dense, competitive cnidarians and their exudations (even beyond allelopathy if/when present) will stimulate behaviors in other specimens (namely defense) that steal energies that could otherwise be used for healing, growth and/or reproduction.

Mixing corals and anemones on display is one thing... but when you make the jump to propagation, compromises must be made as per earlier references to farming versus display keeping.

The loss in vigor, heath/healing and productivity for the chemical soup of central filtration is not worth the savings on the purchase of an additional skimmer, etc.

So many corals and anemones are so very profitable in such a short period of time (cycle of harvest) that monoculture is not only better for the animals (health), but its also more productive (mass and/or profits generated)

 

[causeofhim]

That is what I thought. Thanks

 

[Jadran]

20 jears old reef tanks, impressive!!

20 jears old reef tanks, impressive!!

Many reefers today looking forward to keep stoney corals or other species which we're impossible to keep not so long ago.
I'm not really sure whats the attraction? is it the their status of being "hard to keep," is it nutrient poor system they need or is it just all about colors..hmm.. it might be bit of all. I don't think people today are excited about softies as they are about sps and such...

But how about true old tank, aquarium that houses 20 years old yellow tang or coral thats been growing all this time inside?

Recently I posted some nice pics at my local Croatian forum that you might find interesting, if you like old school reefkeeping talks.

enoy

http://www.elegancereef.com/smf/index.php?topic=1206.0

 

[Anthony Calfo]

Mario, as you can see now - I have merged your thread here in light of a recent twist on the care of fish and invertebrates as it relates to some commonalities of successful regimes, such as less crowding, monocultures, potential lifespans, etc.

BTW - the chap Mirko you have pictured in your link is a dear friend of mine from Croatia! He's working to translate my Book of Coral Propagation in Italian. What a surprise to see him pictured Ah... what a wonderfully small world it is sometimes

To all... note how often mature displays evolve into a limited number of thriving specimens of like species/genera. Now consider what is happening instead when you glue fifty 1" assorted sps frags mere inches apart in a 50 gallon aquarium

 

[ALTI]

or even worse is 4x50 gal tanks sharing a common sump with over 600 mixed softie frags and colonies. my fingernails were growing faster. seperating the species into seperate tanks helped a little, but the more frags i add the slower things seem to grow.

 

[Jadran]

Mario, as you can see now - I have merged your thread here in light of a recent twist on the care of fish and invertebrates...

OK, glad to help.. but now I have to read all 5 pages to get idea about ommonalities of successful regimes, such as less crowding, monocultures, potential lifespans... damn!

..Mirko you have pictured in your link is a dear friend of mine from Croatia! He's working to translate my Book of Coral Propagation in Italian. What a surprise to see him pictured Ah... what a wonderfully small world it is sometimes..

Yes, small indeed, I've ben told you guys know each other.. (saw pics he took at MACNA).... I hope he'll bring you over to Croatia some day so we could discuss vine and other Croatian reefkeeping strategies in greater depths

 

[Anthony Calfo]

well put my friend... indeed I and other corals farmers have had that same epiphany when deveiloping a regime for farming efforts.

The more/different species you add to a system... the more energy is spent by them on activities other than growth and reproduction. And oftentimes, growth is also stymied literally because of the physical reduction of light and water flow from the crowd(ing).

But as you keenly point out... its not just about different species sometimes. Beyond the issue of crowding that reduces flow, light and feeding opportunities... there is the issue of isogyny (or not). That is to say... not all species will tolerate others of the same species(!) unless they are clones from the same parent.

The speaks to the mantra I often pitch about coral farming being a lot mor like real "farming" (Ag) than like aquarium keeping.

 

[ALTI]

As i get more tanks up and running the species are getting closer and closer to monospecific. Im thinking of going as far as to have dual monospecific cultures. One for cuttings and healing mother colonies and the other for growout. Do u think that this is overkill? It seems logical to me that any coral sliming or releasing defensive compounds into the water will effect growth even if it is from the same species.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

Thats not overkill at all bro... I recommend no less than two pools for each species. Three minimum ideally. Staggered growout/propping tanks... and one reserve broodstock tank (untouched mostly)

 

[ALTI]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I cant believe the Steelers lost to the Bungles.

Thanks man. What is the reason for seperating the growing frags from the mother colonies? Does it apply for all types of corals?

 

[Anthony Calfo]

I can't talk about the Steelers loss right now... it just hurts too much


IMPORTANT: seperating frags from mother colonies

Seperate the frags literally/spacially from the parent/donor to spur growth for improved exposure to light and water flow (rather than keep unfragged parent clustered)

... and also separate frags from the parent/donor system-wise beacuse you do not want cut, mucous and potentially infectious frags (newly made/stressed) in the same water as the parent/donors(!) that support your entire operation/project!

 

[ALTI]

i am also in alot of pain.

thanks

 

[cutsupremetrib]

wow great thread Im kinda a newbie here I learned something hopefully... I am now going to be moving my condy to my 12 gallon nano that has nothing in it and away from my display tank that is full of different corals will the anemone do fine in my 12 gallon with 24 watts of lighting and nothing else but rocks in the tank and a single crab also what lighting should a montipora digitata be under?

 

[Anthony Calfo]

cutsupremetrib... your montipora and anemone will need a minimum of 5 watts per gallon of new fluorescent lamps in the 6500-10k K range ideally. They will also need to be kept in less than 18" of water to fare well under such light. Let me also request that you post new/off topic questions in a new thread my friend. That way more people can better find and post to your question rather than have it dilute another thread like this one and perhaps handicap the feedback you will get.

 

[cutsupremetrib]

sorry for the diluting... umm i think i'll be just fine my display has a 400 watt 13k metal halide where the monti is located and my anemone was in the same tank now its in my 12 gallon I will be updating soon I'll put this in a different thread thanks mr calfo

 

[gussy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6155583#post6155583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by delta
well Anthony could probably explain it better but it is pretty simple

tools- Exacto knife (scalpels shaped)boiled to sterilize
Gloves
Goggles (you never know)
Gladware disposable container


It was not attached so it was easy to remove from my fuge.
Then I placed it on a clean piece of acrylic.
Now for the fun I took the exacto knife stabbed it directly into the middle of the mouth of the anemone then cut towards the outer edge.

Next I rotated the specimen 180 degrees and started from the same point of the mouth to the opposite outer edge to finish.

The two halves then took a bath in the gladware container while took a photo then I rinse them a bit and returned them to the Fuge.

It only took about five minutes once I had all tools and things ready.

Is there any reason why I can't use a big Chinese kitchen cleaver and hard chop it half with just one blow? I don't think I can slowly cut an anemone like a cake.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Generally it is better to cut rather than to crush, and I think just by the nature of the blow from the cleaver there will be some crushing.

Just seems more traumatic to me than a good clean cut with a scalpel or exacto knife, although there is something to be said about a quick procedure.