Coral Farmers

[JohnDinSD]

Is it considered responsible to purchace "farmed coral frags" from lets say Vivid Aquariums (I single them out because they have some beutifull corals I woul like to buy). It seems to me that it would be, as one coral frag is used to supply many frags to many people. However, it seems that there is allot of deception in the hobby.
The more that i get into the hobby the greater my respect for these incredible animals grows. Most people who see my aquarium are amazed to see what a real coral is and begin asking allot of questions with excitement. I am sure that all of the corals in my tank our frags from captive corals.I would like to believe that my tank could in some way effect the coral reefs in a positive way.
Would appreciate any comments.

John.

 

[JohnDinSD]

From an ethical and moral perspective, what is the difference between maricultured, captive grown and ORA.

Thanks.

 

[greenbean36191]

Maricultured simply means farmed. Despite what many hobbyists think, it does not tell you anything about what production method was used or where the corals were grown. The same is true of the term aquaculture. For the purpose of the hobby they are synonyms. You can't get much more vague, so there's really no way to rank the production method.

Captive grown means the corals were grown in captivity. Basically all that tells you is that the corals weren't fragged and then grown out in the ocean. However, it doesn't mean they were grown in a closed system or from captive broodstock. Again, there's a broad spectrum of what can be called captive grown.

ORA is a company that farms corals. They are captive grown from captive stock, but I'm not sure they're in closed systems. In other words, ORA is a mariculture company that produces captive grown corals.

How responsible a coral choice is will depend mostly on the origin of the broodstock and where production is being done. Obviously wild collected corals are the least responsible choice. The best choice is corals farmed in situ- meaning they're being grown in the country where the reefs are. Other farmed corals and frags grown stateside are a responsible option too, but not quite as helpful.

 

[klepto]

Thanks for the clarification on those terms GreenBean.

 

[FLIPbmw]

frags from local hobbyists from excess growth or from intentional propagation is the best.

I'd rather buy aquacultured frags from someone who does what he can to ensure ultimate growth and quality than from a place where quick growth and turnover (profit driven) is the key.

 

[Electrobes]

The best choice is corals farmed in situ- meaning they're being grown in the country where the reefs are. Other farmed corals and frags grown stateside are a responsible option too, but not quite as helpful.

I am confused by this statement, why is coral grown in the country where the reefs are better/helpful than farmed coral in other countries?

 

[Bluetangclan]

Maybe because it gives the farmer in these poor countries a source of income other than pulling stuff from the reef maybe?

 

[greenbean36191]

Well when people say farmed frags help stop collection from the reefs they tend to either ignore or just not realize the economic reality of the areas where most collection occurs. Most collectors aren't collecting because it's a fun profession, but because they don't have a whole lot of other economic alternatives. The resources from the reef are their livelihood whether we buy them or not. There's no shortage of other markets for them to sell to- construction, curios, pharmaceuticals, etc. Trying to cut the collectors completely out by farming everything ourselves essentially amounts to a unilateral embargo.

While stateside farming does prevent hobbyists from directly contributing to collection of corals, it doesn't solve the problem and potentially hurts efforts to establish in situ farms. Even if stateside farms completely displaced wild corals in the hobby it's unlikely there would be any major reduction in the total amount of corals and inverts collected from the reef. On the other hand, in situ farming is a win-win because it provides the former collectors with an employment opportunity that doesn't require them to collect.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14050383#post14050383 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluetangclan
Maybe because it gives the farmer in these poor countries a source of income other than pulling stuff from the reef maybe?

:thumbsup:

If keeping a reef healthy provides them with the best income, they keep do what they can to keep the reef healthy. However, if a healthy growing reef becomes more valuable as cement, they will mine it for cement. Hence, the argument that buying in situ farmed (or even wild harvested if done responsibly) is better than locally grown frags from a saving the reef standpoint.

 

[Electrobes]

I have to admit that while that argument sounds plausible, I don't fully agree with greenbean. I'm all for helping the poor have jobs and earn income but that's assuming fair treatment and conditions in those countries... and lets be real.. what we read versus what actually happens can, and usually is, very different. It would be like me (Who favors stateside farming and insitu alike) suggesting that stateside farming produce better suited corals for aquariums because many of the same products used by hobbyists are used in that method of farming. It sounds plausible but is a very vague and misunderstood statement.

No one method fully prevents the collection of corals from the reef and it's destruction. IMO I think both insitu AND stateside farming both help the situation... but I wouldn't necessarily favor one over the other.

Many other issues are at play when going into this discussion... be it pros and/or cons for both sides.. but I can not agree that one is better than the other.

 

[greenbean36191]

I'm all for helping the poor have jobs and earn income but that's assuming fair treatment and conditions in those countries... and lets be real.. what we read versus what actually happens can, and usually is, very different.

Well, it's well-established conservation concept and it does work in reality. I've seen it firsthand in the Caribbean and Red Sea and hopefully Walt Smith will stop by and tell you of his experience in the South Pacific. Sure, there are a few cases where it's failed, but that's the exception.

As for which corals survive better, I think there's a valid point there, but that's a separate question from what the OP asked regarding which is more environmentally responsible.

No one method fully prevents the collection of corals from the reef and it's destruction. IMO I think both insitu AND stateside farming both help the situation... but I wouldn't necessarily favor one over the other.

No one claimed (at least here) that either source will completely eliminate wild collection, nor should that be the measure of success. Reducing pressure a little is better than not at all. I don't think you will find anyone who has really studied the situation or with first-hand experience of it that actually believes that state-side farming will make any significant impact on the amount of pressure on the reefs.

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14050481#post14050481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
Well when people say farmed frags help stop collection from the reefs they tend to either ignore or just not realize the economic reality of the areas where most collection occurs. Most collectors aren't collecting because it's a fun profession, but because they don't have a whole lot of other economic alternatives. The resources from the reef are their livelihood whether we buy them or not. There's no shortage of other markets for them to sell to- construction, curios, pharmaceuticals, etc. Trying to cut the collectors completely out by farming everything ourselves essentially amounts to a unilateral embargo.

While stateside farming does prevent hobbyists from directly contributing to collection of corals, it doesn't solve the problem and potentially hurts efforts to establish in situ farms. Even if stateside farms completely displaced wild corals in the hobby it's unlikely there would be any major reduction in the total amount of corals and inverts collected from the reef. On the other hand, in situ farming is a win-win because it provides the former collectors with an employment opportunity that doesn't require them to collect.

Geesh you tend to take the words right out of my mouth

So what exactly are your total thoughts on "bio-piracy" in terms of what has been done? Meaning items that have been removed and are being bred stateside that is.

 

[jenglish]

I think there are trade-offs for any source. The advantage of stateside produced frags and especially locally produced frags is you are saving the massive amounts of jet fuel that is being burned to get things from overseas. I would tend to concur that giving locals a chance to make a decent living is worth the trade off. Although crushing a reef to make a concrete seems absurd to us; if it was the only natural resource around to feed your family I think we may all reconsider. I wonder if there will come a time that some sort of conservation credit similar to a carbon offset will be used.

 

[greenbean36191]

So what exactly are your total thoughts on "bio-piracy" in terms of what has been done? Meaning items that have been removed and are being bred stateside that is.

I think it's a really complicated issue probably best left to an ethicist.

How's that for a cop-out? :lol:

Obviously it sucks, but I don't think there's any practical solution to the problem aside from wholesale export bans. It is a concern most hobbyists never consider (or have even heard of) though and I think it's a talking point that should come up more often.

 

[kaptken]

well, I think the laws of doing the least harm can be applied. IE locals take one small frag from the reef, plant it in their lagoon to grow a mother colony, then frag to grow more mother colonies, and then future harvest of frags, to be locally grown out in the upper reef lagoon for sale and shipment to us, the reefers!. Is that sustainable enough with minimal wild reef impact?

and of course, some of those frags will go into stateside coral farm production to furthur increase the supply. But that chain of events does take time. and time is money. so we should support coral farming in the island source. as long as the local island water conditions/environment support growth of the reef. if and when the reefs fail, the frags we have in country may become the surviving stock. a much diminished diversity.

 

[Rouselb]

vivid has great stock. I purchased SPS from them several times. Just make sure you order enough to get the free shipping, even if you need to get a few other local reefers involved.

 

[JohnDinSD]

Well, I drove up to Vivid and bought some really nice corals. It's a great store, very impressive display tank.

 

[aklee987]

So does anyone know any other online vendors that are "responsible" as pertaining to "responsible reefkeeping"? Is there one that is better than the others? I understand that local reefers are a good bet, but I'm looking for online vendors.

Hopefully I'm not hijacking too much. I can always move to a new thread if I need to. Thanks.

 

[icy1155]

I know that www.pacificeastaquaculture.com has a whole selection of "Maricultured" corals. I have spoken with Dr. Mac, and these all come from a village in the Solomon Islands that runs a small coral farm. Might be worth looking into.

 

[JohnDinSD]

I would be interested in knowing more sights too.