Coral Growth with DIY LEDs
- Thread starter bgifford
- Start date
Kalakuhan
Free Reef
Almost like my old setup except i was rocking a 75.
CREE's are the best!
Yo Mac, RapidLED now builds a fixture with reds/uv/green
but DIY would be a little bit cheaper.
bgifford
New member
I wouldn't recommend DIY, If I were to do it again, I would buy either radions or Ai simply for the resale value purposes. I will not be able to recover anything for my DIY setup, it was risky to build (if you short them out-which is much easier than you would think), cost almost as much as some of my alternatives, looks half as good as a commercial product, and comes with no warranty or guarantee.
With that being said, it is clear that I cannot be upset with the purpose/performance of the DIY setup.
My ratio is 2:1 royal blue to cool white and they run at less than 50% (b/c I only have a 5v adapter running them.)
Thanks all for the compliments.
Massive threads written on the subject, but here's what I've learned
84 LEDs over a 200 gal was sufficient.
Find the thread on the Meanwell LDD driver for diy LEDs. Its the best, cheapest, and most flexible driver.
- Use pwm dimming if you want to be able to dim your lights down low. The analog dimming drivers do not dim lower than 10% or so. With that 1-10% dimming ability you get with pwm you can use one of your channels as moon lights.
2:1 RB:CW is a very good starting point. Cree and Philips are the only ones to go with. Philips supposedly has a little efficiency edge. I did both since they are slightly different spectrum on the RB and a little range in the Royal Blue spectrum is good.
Consider some neutral whites in place of all cool white to bring out your warm colors better (reds oranges).
didn't like warm whites, way too yellow
reds and greens can easily be overpowering, the problem with just using a couple reds is they created too much disco effect for me unless I threw a bunch more in.
violets on their own channel are really cool, super florescing effect (think Tron) I think this is only possible for DIY, most commercial fixtures are actinic and white, only 2 channels.
cool blues and greens, not bad but I don't know if they're warranted. Space/power/money possibly should have just gone to more royal blues.
Use the little solderless connectors here so you can easily swap the LED's in the future and no soldering! Totally worth the expense.
Would I do it again, absolutely. The asthetics point is valid, diy leds tend to be downright ugly. I'm wrapping mine a floating stainless steel hood. The resale is a valid point too, you're not going to recover your cost if you sell your DIY LEDs. But I think that, unless you resell the commercial fixture within about a year, you probably won't on the commercial fixture either. Their advancing too fast to hold their value long, and I would be surprised if the Jebaos of the LED market are not lurking and will drive prices down on fixture LEDs.
If you like the flexibility of getting what you want/like in your lights, are willing to do some DIY research (time), and like making things; I think you'll get a lot of satisfaction out of making your own.
If you want your fixture to hang out in the open and be very small/minimalist, have more money than time, don't get satisfaction from making things and learning how tings work than ya, DIY won't be worth it.
84 LEDs over a 200 gal was sufficient.
Find the thread on the Meanwell LDD driver for diy LEDs. Its the best, cheapest, and most flexible driver.
- Use pwm dimming if you want to be able to dim your lights down low. The analog dimming drivers do not dim lower than 10% or so. With that 1-10% dimming ability you get with pwm you can use one of your channels as moon lights.
2:1 RB:CW is a very good starting point. Cree and Philips are the only ones to go with. Philips supposedly has a little efficiency edge. I did both since they are slightly different spectrum on the RB and a little range in the Royal Blue spectrum is good.
Consider some neutral whites in place of all cool white to bring out your warm colors better (reds oranges).
didn't like warm whites, way too yellow
reds and greens can easily be overpowering, the problem with just using a couple reds is they created too much disco effect for me unless I threw a bunch more in.
violets on their own channel are really cool, super florescing effect (think Tron) I think this is only possible for DIY, most commercial fixtures are actinic and white, only 2 channels.
cool blues and greens, not bad but I don't know if they're warranted. Space/power/money possibly should have just gone to more royal blues.
Use the little solderless connectors here so you can easily swap the LED's in the future and no soldering! Totally worth the expense.
Would I do it again, absolutely. The asthetics point is valid, diy leds tend to be downright ugly. I'm wrapping mine a floating stainless steel hood. The resale is a valid point too, you're not going to recover your cost if you sell your DIY LEDs. But I think that, unless you resell the commercial fixture within about a year, you probably won't on the commercial fixture either. Their advancing too fast to hold their value long, and I would be surprised if the Jebaos of the LED market are not lurking and will drive prices down on fixture LEDs.
If you like the flexibility of getting what you want/like in your lights, are willing to do some DIY research (time), and like making things; I think you'll get a lot of satisfaction out of making your own.
If you want your fixture to hang out in the open and be very small/minimalist, have more money than time, don't get satisfaction from making things and learning how tings work than ya, DIY won't be worth it.
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bgifford
New member
Ecotech products trade and sell like gold.
Even with the wp-40's which have gone viral, the ecotech products will still strongly hold their value regardless of cheaper alternatives and the decrease in price of leds.
I'm all for DIY, its very rewarding however I cannot justify losing so much money in the diy process. If you are worried about cash, you should stay clear of DIY- like I said, I could have bought many alternative leds that would have looked much better, had a warranty, and gave me more of an investment than a washout.
If you would like to buy my DIY Leds for $400, there all yours.
Even with the wp-40's which have gone viral, the ecotech products will still strongly hold their value regardless of cheaper alternatives and the decrease in price of leds.
I'm all for DIY, its very rewarding however I cannot justify losing so much money in the diy process. If you are worried about cash, you should stay clear of DIY- like I said, I could have bought many alternative leds that would have looked much better, had a warranty, and gave me more of an investment than a washout.
If you would like to buy my DIY Leds for $400, there all yours.
macboat
Nano simplicity
This is by far the best LED summaries I have ever read!:bigeyes:
macboat
Nano simplicity
Hi froggy have you ever used these connectors? Long time ago rapid LED used some similar connectors and I used them in my DIY lights. However they have different sizes because the lights have different profiles. Will these connectors one size fits all?
Hi Mac, darn good question. I had that problem too, rings with little LED holes, but big LED lenses that don't fit. I just drilled the hole bigger with a common drill bit. The ones they show there with the big holes work for all of them, I think that might be all they sell now. The only LEDs on mine that have big lenses are they funky colors, not the Royal Blue or whites.
One other tip, find aluminum bars, commercial storefront glass frames etc from a metal recycle place it cuts a good chunk of expense out for heat sinks. I have both the ones the sites market specifically for DIY LEDs and the scrap, they both work equally well. When your looking at all the aluminum, look for shapes/profiles that look workable for your design, mass, and surface area. I actually like my scrap heat sinks better than the 'store' bought.
Another thing that would be really nice to compare is the 'glitterlines' you get from DIY vs. Radion type fixtures. The manufactured fixtures have a much tighter grouping of all the LED's so you end up with a couple point sources of light vs. 50 individual LED's casting their own glitterlines/shadows. Its something people like with a halide, single points source, but with a 50 point sources it might be dazzling in a bad way. So with manufactured, I'd would think you get less disco effect. I love how my tank looks, but it would be nice to hear from someone who can look at a DIY and Radion/AI type side by side and report on disco and glitter lines.
One other tip, find aluminum bars, commercial storefront glass frames etc from a metal recycle place it cuts a good chunk of expense out for heat sinks. I have both the ones the sites market specifically for DIY LEDs and the scrap, they both work equally well. When your looking at all the aluminum, look for shapes/profiles that look workable for your design, mass, and surface area. I actually like my scrap heat sinks better than the 'store' bought.
Another thing that would be really nice to compare is the 'glitterlines' you get from DIY vs. Radion type fixtures. The manufactured fixtures have a much tighter grouping of all the LED's so you end up with a couple point sources of light vs. 50 individual LED's casting their own glitterlines/shadows. Its something people like with a halide, single points source, but with a 50 point sources it might be dazzling in a bad way. So with manufactured, I'd would think you get less disco effect. I love how my tank looks, but it would be nice to hear from someone who can look at a DIY and Radion/AI type side by side and report on disco and glitter lines.
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bgifford
New member
Thanks Tom, I wanted to show some evidence of Coral growth using LEDS (in response to those people that tell me LEDS are "not there yet" and "MH is the only way to go") and show that you can get some great growth on sps and lps without the high end gear that is available.
I really don't want to disturb this tank because of the great growth i'm getting, I feel like the corals are just starting to kickoff and get big.
Hey Bgifford, i'm a very new to this group, and my tank has been setup since December
I'm currently running 40x 3Watt Bridgelux Led's and my ratio is 1:1
I did use the Meanwell drives listed in Froggs post, i use the PWM using an arduino to run them, i'm using two meanwell's at 68Volts per meanwell, plus an additional 10 volt driver for the PWM.
Oh would help if you knew my tank size huh? running on a 40gallon breeder.
I'm noticing some issues with my LED lighting, hence my name Lyght... Hahah
So I typically run my lights at approx 40%-50% here's why and you can maybe point me in the right direction.
So my acropora mid tank seems to be doing fantastic, not showing miracle growth like yours but like i said i'm also new to the hobby so i may have other issues. I also have a rainbow acan seems fine.
Hammer AND Australian branching hammer on base of tank, seem fine at the 40-50% marker, they flow in the current extended. but when i pump up the light anymore, they shrivel up as if hiding from the light.....
So i keep the lights now... the problems i'm running into is with my Montiporas and BirdsNests....
They dont seem to like anywhere i put um, high mid low, doesnt matter... I have a superman montipora and the polyps wont extend. the blue "skin" has actually turned red. so now it's a pure red montipora...
BirdsNest will show extension for some time on the bottom of the tank but then mysteriously starts losing polyps like my current green birds nest a part of it is bleaching.
I'm really struggling with placement with LED's due to the penetration.
I noticed yours are on two braces i'm guessing 16 per brace?
My heatsink only came in a 20 inch long single piece, so i've got 40 LED's on a 20 inch slab i'm wondering if i should maybe extend them more. and space them out more. i'll attach a pic tomorrow after work.
If your interested in chatting on DIY LED's i'm pretty good at programming controller boards and soldering, did mine all by hand. just need someone to talk to about LED and depth penetration and distancing and that type of stuff
I'm currently running 40x 3Watt Bridgelux Led's and my ratio is 1:1
I did use the Meanwell drives listed in Froggs post, i use the PWM using an arduino to run them, i'm using two meanwell's at 68Volts per meanwell, plus an additional 10 volt driver for the PWM.
Oh would help if you knew my tank size huh? running on a 40gallon breeder.
I'm noticing some issues with my LED lighting, hence my name Lyght... Hahah
So I typically run my lights at approx 40%-50% here's why and you can maybe point me in the right direction.
So my acropora mid tank seems to be doing fantastic, not showing miracle growth like yours but like i said i'm also new to the hobby so i may have other issues. I also have a rainbow acan seems fine.
Hammer AND Australian branching hammer on base of tank, seem fine at the 40-50% marker, they flow in the current extended. but when i pump up the light anymore, they shrivel up as if hiding from the light.....
So i keep the lights now... the problems i'm running into is with my Montiporas and BirdsNests....
They dont seem to like anywhere i put um, high mid low, doesnt matter... I have a superman montipora and the polyps wont extend. the blue "skin" has actually turned red. so now it's a pure red montipora...
BirdsNest will show extension for some time on the bottom of the tank but then mysteriously starts losing polyps like my current green birds nest a part of it is bleaching.
I'm really struggling with placement with LED's due to the penetration.
I noticed yours are on two braces i'm guessing 16 per brace?
My heatsink only came in a 20 inch long single piece, so i've got 40 LED's on a 20 inch slab i'm wondering if i should maybe extend them more. and space them out more. i'll attach a pic tomorrow after work.
If your interested in chatting on DIY LED's i'm pretty good at programming controller boards and soldering, did mine all by hand. just need someone to talk to about LED and depth penetration and distancing and that type of stuff
lights
lights
Double check your LDD drivers output, they're supposed to max out at 52 volts out, so if you're trying to pull 68 volts that could be a problem. Also, the PWM signal should max out at 5 volts not 10.
Look at your flow, I'm 90% sure that's the weak spot in my tank even though I have to Koralia Mag 7s. Looking forward to getting Jebao and real wave motion.
My purple rim montipora has lost its purple, but I'm seeing good growth on everthing, including a pink birdsnest..
lights
Double check your LDD drivers output, they're supposed to max out at 52 volts out, so if you're trying to pull 68 volts that could be a problem. Also, the PWM signal should max out at 5 volts not 10.
Look at your flow, I'm 90% sure that's the weak spot in my tank even though I have to Koralia Mag 7s. Looking forward to getting Jebao and real wave motion.
My purple rim montipora has lost its purple, but I'm seeing good growth on everthing, including a pink birdsnest..
bgifford
New member
Lyghtning,
I would be glad to try and help. I am no expert by any means. I simply decided to challenge some of the common practices/rumors/advice in the hobby with what I was learning at ASU in my biochem degree and I came out on top as evidence seen above. There are so many factors, I hope that I can replicate my success while moving to this larger 90gallon tank.
I noticed my biggest differences when I got my nutrients under control. I learned about the nitrogen cycle and bacterial growth and started working until I got my parameters where I wanted them. (if you don't know/understand the nitrogen cycle I'd be happy to teach you about it-what i know at least). I had a high nitrate problem and, after reading Dr. Tim's PhD peer reviewed journal article about bacterial nitrification, then I learned about the concepts of carbon dosing. I chose biopellets as my way of carbon dosing to culture a nitrifying bacteria to consume my excess nitrate. I also started doing a 10% (5 gallon) water change every week using coral pro salt. This salt is advertised to be stacked with calcium, magnesium, and alk, however after reading a peer reviewed journal article on the comparison of synthetic sea salts (SSS) I am skeptical of the amounts of trace elements actually added to any SSS. Anyways, I do not dose anything, I rely on the salt and water changes to sustain my coral growth as seen above.
Once I had a stable system, I ordered and built my DIY leds (rapid led). I am running PWM drivers, and I used to be using an arduino but I had too many small issues with the controller and it was unreliable in my eyes. I now run my pwm drivers using a ac adapter (probably shouldn't be- let me know if this is horribly wrong) and a potentiometer. Now I have my three pwm drivers receiving a AC signal from a wall charger through a potentiometer and have it tuned down to about 5v. I would like to run my lights a little higher just to see how the corals react, however, my aluminum tubes/lights get too hot.
If I turned my lights up and saw that my corals were pulling in or not looking healthy, I would either increase the distance between my light and corals or turn the lights down.
Know that light intensity follows and inverse square law. I=1/d^2 (it just means that if you double the distance between your light and coral, you get 1/4 of the intensity- you cut the intensity by the square of your distance). Make your adjustments based on how your coral looks. You can see when a coral is doing well or not.
Take home message:
1. Test your water
2. Get parameters perfect
3. Weekly water changes
4. adjust the intensity of your LEDS to fit your corals behavior (same with flow).
hope this helps and makes sense. Let me know if you have any additional questions. I'd like to hear what other people have to say about this as well.
I would be glad to try and help. I am no expert by any means. I simply decided to challenge some of the common practices/rumors/advice in the hobby with what I was learning at ASU in my biochem degree and I came out on top as evidence seen above. There are so many factors, I hope that I can replicate my success while moving to this larger 90gallon tank.
I noticed my biggest differences when I got my nutrients under control. I learned about the nitrogen cycle and bacterial growth and started working until I got my parameters where I wanted them. (if you don't know/understand the nitrogen cycle I'd be happy to teach you about it-what i know at least). I had a high nitrate problem and, after reading Dr. Tim's PhD peer reviewed journal article about bacterial nitrification, then I learned about the concepts of carbon dosing. I chose biopellets as my way of carbon dosing to culture a nitrifying bacteria to consume my excess nitrate. I also started doing a 10% (5 gallon) water change every week using coral pro salt. This salt is advertised to be stacked with calcium, magnesium, and alk, however after reading a peer reviewed journal article on the comparison of synthetic sea salts (SSS) I am skeptical of the amounts of trace elements actually added to any SSS. Anyways, I do not dose anything, I rely on the salt and water changes to sustain my coral growth as seen above.
Once I had a stable system, I ordered and built my DIY leds (rapid led). I am running PWM drivers, and I used to be using an arduino but I had too many small issues with the controller and it was unreliable in my eyes. I now run my pwm drivers using a ac adapter (probably shouldn't be- let me know if this is horribly wrong) and a potentiometer. Now I have my three pwm drivers receiving a AC signal from a wall charger through a potentiometer and have it tuned down to about 5v. I would like to run my lights a little higher just to see how the corals react, however, my aluminum tubes/lights get too hot.
If I turned my lights up and saw that my corals were pulling in or not looking healthy, I would either increase the distance between my light and corals or turn the lights down.
Know that light intensity follows and inverse square law. I=1/d^2 (it just means that if you double the distance between your light and coral, you get 1/4 of the intensity- you cut the intensity by the square of your distance). Make your adjustments based on how your coral looks. You can see when a coral is doing well or not.
Take home message:
1. Test your water
2. Get parameters perfect
3. Weekly water changes
4. adjust the intensity of your LEDS to fit your corals behavior (same with flow).
hope this helps and makes sense. Let me know if you have any additional questions. I'd like to hear what other people have to say about this as well.
evolved
Wrasse Nut
Carbon dosing isn't exactly a new science, but there are many ways to do it. However, it's entirely possible to obtain trace nitrate levels without carbon dosing.
Ask (privately) any of the "big name" or "designer" coral propagators what salt they use, and you'll find with few exceptions it's plain old instant ocean. It's consistent and well known what is (and isn't) in it.
Meaning you have an inefficient heat sink.
True for intensity, but PAR isn't indicative of intensity. Sure, distance matters, but it's not an inverse square law with PAR.
Agree here. And flow is a very important, but often disregarded, variable. Too little (or too much) for a given species and the only hill it will travel is down.
bgifford
New member
You definitely do not have to use carbon dosing to maintain parameters. I like the science behind biopellets and they have shown to work in my system.
As far as salt goes, I would argue that its not "well known what is (and isn't) in it". It is very difficult and expensive to test for very small amounts of these trace elements that SSS claim they put into their salt mix. I agree that alot of people use instant ocean as a good cheap base salt and then dose all other trace elements that they want.
My heatsink is very efficient at dissipating heat, its just insufficient for how many leds I packed onto the tubing - the thing was $8 and all that I wanted to afford at the time. I still have gotten great results with my leds at less than half power.
I'm not sure of the exact relationship between PAR and Intensity, it's a fairly complicated science.
PAR (Photosynthetic active radiation) by name is the wavelength that has the ability to carry out photosynthetic electron transport. Meaning its a range of wavelengths.
light Intensity is a measure of lights illuminance, luminous emittance, luminance, or radiance. Light intensity is the Watt per square meter. The unit "Watt" is a measure of Power which is work/time or joules/second. Its a measure of how fast work gets done.
The units of PAR can be either micro-molar/m^2 per time OR W/m^2 just like intensity. I would like to learn more how the relationship between the two units of par are derived mathmatically and how they correlate to Intensity witch is also measured in W/m^2.
Regardless of PAR vs Intensity, the main point is that you adjust your light according to what makes your coral smile back at you.
As far as salt goes, I would argue that its not "well known what is (and isn't) in it". It is very difficult and expensive to test for very small amounts of these trace elements that SSS claim they put into their salt mix. I agree that alot of people use instant ocean as a good cheap base salt and then dose all other trace elements that they want.
My heatsink is very efficient at dissipating heat, its just insufficient for how many leds I packed onto the tubing - the thing was $8 and all that I wanted to afford at the time. I still have gotten great results with my leds at less than half power.
I'm not sure of the exact relationship between PAR and Intensity, it's a fairly complicated science.
PAR (Photosynthetic active radiation) by name is the wavelength that has the ability to carry out photosynthetic electron transport. Meaning its a range of wavelengths.
light Intensity is a measure of lights illuminance, luminous emittance, luminance, or radiance. Light intensity is the Watt per square meter. The unit "Watt" is a measure of Power which is work/time or joules/second. Its a measure of how fast work gets done.
The units of PAR can be either micro-molar/m^2 per time OR W/m^2 just like intensity. I would like to learn more how the relationship between the two units of par are derived mathmatically and how they correlate to Intensity witch is also measured in W/m^2.
Regardless of PAR vs Intensity, the main point is that you adjust your light according to what makes your coral smile back at you.
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