Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[Tazzmacd]

Love the progress you guys have made and I can't wait for the pictures of the aquascaping!! This has been such an informative thread with all the debates and discussions on what and what not to do. Simply amazing!!

 

[JonnyD91]

I need to respectfully disagree here when it comes to ich. 1.009 is the recommended salinity for hyposalinity treatment of ich, with a minimum duration of 2 weeks since the average lifecycle of the ich parasite is 2 weeks at normal reef tank temps. 4-6 weeks is fairly common and gets even better results since the parasite has to go through more lifecycles. Your call as to whether you boost the tank temp while you're doing this. Some studies have shown that a salinity as low as 1.011 is ineffective at killing ich.

I know we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, but it's quite likely that Peter's fish will experience ich not long after he begins buying them. IMO, for fish diseases, these are the two best references on the web:

Everything that you need to know about ich:
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

Everything that you need to know about hyposalinity:
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/hyposalinity.html

Agreed, if you do 1.011 you will just be treating again for ich. 1.009, 6 weeks bye bye ich. Trust me been there, done that, have the T-Shirt.

 

[dave.m]

The problem I have Dave is that there was no indication from the staff of any treatment programs under way, in fact there was a sale on all fish livestock in the store. I assumed when I asked the clerk for the temp and salinity that he should have warned me that the fish were undergoing treatment for ich if in fact that was the reason for the low salinity. We are assuming that would be a plausible reason for the low salt. It also could have been a simple economy move however silly that may be.

Peter, I absolutely agree with you. I only offered hyposalinity as a suggested possibility. Please see others' suggestions above, as well. I didn't intend to start a war or to dis anyone's opinions.

As far as best practices go, what you did, testing and retesting to double-check is IMHO the best practice that everyone here should take away with them. Don't depend on some dopey kid in a pet shop making minimum wage to be a marine biologist. Heck, he could have been the same kid who just accidentally did a water change with freshwater on all the marine tanks while the shop owner is out on business.

All you need to do is read the many, many threads on this and other forums that are some variation of, "Why did my new fish turn white, flip over on its back, and spontaneously implode when I added it to my tank?" to see how few people have gotten the message yet about the need for constantly testing and quarantining new additions for their aquariums. Best practices are, I believe, what we include in our day-to-day routines, not just the momentary excitement of the big-ticket items.

Dave.M

 

[monkeydad]

I've been lurking for a while...

This is really an amazing thread and build! Your candor, honesty, respect for others, as well as your opened-minded wiki-style (community knowledge) incorporations makes for an epic experience for the readers.

Looking at the plumbing, a question came to mind (I am an utter novice, only have a 14G nano-reef). My background is in engines. An engines efficiency can be enhanced greatly by having equal length intake runners and exhaust pipes (like the beautiful snaking exhausts and intakes on exotic cars).

Does this concept transfer to the efficiency of the pumps and water circulation? Was any consideration given to making all the circulation loops equal length? It seems to me (I don't know if correctly or not) that it would be beneficial to have each pump and loop operating at equal pressures and flow rates so as not to cause any one pump from working harder than another.

Perhaps a better question is: Is it necessary or desirable to give any consideration to the loops in regard to pressure/flow/head equality?

Thanks so much, and I am really enjoying your build.
E

 

[nineball]

I've been lurking for a while...

This is really an amazing thread and build! Your candor, honesty, respect for others, as well as your opened-minded wiki-style (community knowledge) incorporations makes for an epic experience for the readers.

Looking at the plumbing, a question came to mind (I am an utter novice, only have a 14G nano-reef). My background is in engines. An engines efficiency can be enhanced greatly by having equal length intake runners and exhaust pipes (like the beautiful snaking exhausts and intakes on exotic cars).

Does this concept transfer to the efficiency of the pumps and water circulation? Was any consideration given to making all the circulation loops equal length? It seems to me (I don't know if correctly or not) that it would be beneficial to have each pump and loop operating at equal pressures and flow rates so as not to cause any one pump from working harder than another.

Perhaps a better question is: Is it necessary or desirable to give any consideration to the loops in regard to pressure/flow/head equality?

Thanks so much, and I am really enjoying your build.
E

Good questions all monkeydad. I'm going to have to let real experience and knowledge answer these. That would be anyone else on the thread but me!!!! I can say however that with separate pumps that are capable of variable flow can create all the turbulence and managed chaos with a suitable controller.

Having said that, the actual architectural layout of the plumbing appears for the greater part 7 tenths art and 3 tenths science to get optimal efficiency from the system. I can also say that in some cases the drive for efficiency in pump performance is NOT necessarily ideal for the reef structure. I'll have a lot more to say after our pumps arrive from Germany.

We are testing the open system at the moment and I am pleased with the preliminary indications of performance. The closed loop system has yet to be turned on.

Peter

 

[mule31]

The MARS system and tank are stunning. This is going to be a great tank to watch grow. Keep up all the good work.

 

[nineball]

Thanks Peter for the kind words ... Gary will be at MACNA this year as well so you can meet us both! I was just kidding about driving your car and drinking your wine ... Gary had to one-up me and go over the top explaining his thread of the week so I had to get him back

I thought I was looking at a fine Boutique Fish Store when seeing the pics of your Mars system! It looks so perfect in that fishroom!

Sara you are more than welcome to drive the car and drink the wine. In fact, in the Bentley you can do both but not at the same time and you need to find a different juristiction where it is not against the law. That may be far away from here but at least you can get there fast!!!!

I look forward to meeting you both.......

I was thinking of taking some of the thread people out to dinner if they were there Thurs night. I wonder if there's anyone else here who is going to the MACNA. Mr. Wilson and I will be the hosts. We thought we would find some sea food!!!!

Peter

 

[nineball]

The MARS system and tank are stunning. This is going to be a great tank to watch grow. Keep up all the good work.

Thank you mule, welcome to our community effort.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Love the progress you guys have made and I can't wait for the pictures of the aquascaping!! This has been such an informative thread with all the debates and discussions on what and what not to do. Simply amazing!!

Thank you very much Tazzmacd. Hang in there, pictures of the aquascape should be soon. I am just waiting for an extra temporary light and I will take the pics right after.

Peter

 

[gig]

Hey Peter, I may have missed it, but what kind of lighting do you have for the mars bars? they look nice and bright!

 

[SaraB]

Sara you are more than welcome to drive the car and drink the wine. In fact, in the Bentley you can do both but not at the same time and you need to find a different juristiction where it is not against the law. That may be far away from here but at least you can get there fast!!!!

I look forward to meeting you both.......

I was thinking of taking some of the thread people out to dinner if they were there Thurs night. I wonder if there's anyone else here who is going to the MACNA. Mr. Wilson and I will be the hosts. We thought we would find some sea food!!!!

Peter

I really need to find a way back to Canada for a visit then

I'm arriving at the hotel on Wednesday with some friends, so I'll be around Thursday evening...we can all meet up then! :beer:

 

[nineball]

mmmmmmm mars bars.....

wow, just wow!

Thanks gig, just thanks.........:beer:

Peter

 

[nineball]

An LFS that keeps it's fish at hypo-salinity is mostly doing so because they have been imported/exported at hypo-salinity, it's economical to keep them that way or they believe it is beneficial to the fishes health (and recovery from import/export stress/disease/illness) as it decreases osmotic pressure on the fish (no conclusive scientific evidence for this though). That is what I was told by the owner of my LFS who worked at several others stores before starting his own shop. He always works with 35ppt because he believes it keeps customers and :fish1: happier in the long run.

The issue for me isn't that the LFS keeps low salinity as much as the misinformation. When I asked what the fish I had just bought had been used to for temp and salt I was told 1.021 and 78 F. If I had not checked before I might have been less careful about the transfer.

I wouldn't object if the LFS told me that it was lower salinity. The other aspect that is troublesome is that the level was 1.003 which according to conventional wisdom on this thread is waaay too low.

I think we will all be better off when you can ask an employee of the LFS what the standard is and get an answer that's more than pure speculation.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Further;
From: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

The lifecycle of the parasite is interesting and important to understand when evaluating a treatment. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish. After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again (Colorni & Burgess, 1997).

Thank you hookup, this is great stuff.

Peter

 

[gig]

The issue for me isn't that the LFS keeps low salinity as much as the misinformation. When I asked what the fish I had just bought had been used to for temp and salt I was told 1.021 and 78 F. If I had not checked before I might have been less careful about the transfer.

I wouldn't object if the LFS told me that it was lower salinity. The other aspect that is troublesome is that the level was 1.003 which according to conventional wisdom on this thread is waaay too low.

I think we will all be better off when you can ask an employee of the LFS what the standard is and get an answer that's more than pure speculation.

Peter

exactly, for those less conscientious, they might not realize that the acclimation process would need to be more time consuming and more careful as that's a huge increase to jump from, even in your typical 45 min to an hour typicaly drip acclimation. Plus, if you had known, you might not have bought them.

 

[mm949]

it might be a good idea to incorporate some "clean-outs" in the return plumbing....it doesnt take long for gunk to build up in the pipes and its nice to be able to run a pipe brush thru long lengths of pipe...

 

[reeferbro0622]

I wanna see a final liverock set up... youre building up so much suspense

JT

 

[muttley000]

Peter, Congrats on your first fish! Everything looks outstanding, and leaves me wanting to see more. One question, if I read you correctly you will set up hospital/treatment tanks when needed. How will you avoid transfering disease or parasites to the other fish in the mars bars without going to the quarantine first. I am guessing that you have thought about this and I am missing a step in your plan, just want to be sure I understand. I do look forward to seeing your wrap up of this project, I'm sure it will be as first class as the build itself. I also wish I had more to contribute to the information pile in this thread, but I am plenty happy to be taking it all in!

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

I was thinking of taking some of the thread people out to dinner if they were there Thurs night. I wonder if there's anyone else here who is going to the MACNA. Mr. Wilson and I will be the hosts. We thought we would find some sea food!!!!

Peter

Peter,

I'll be in Orlando Thurs-Monday for MACNA, I look forward to an opportunity to meet you and Mr. Wilson. Considering the enjoyment and education you've provided us through this thread, perhaps we should be taking you to dinner.

Thanks for allowing us to live vicariously through you! :beer:

 

[Hookup]

I was thinking of taking some of the thread people out to dinner if they were there Thurs night. I wonder if there's anyone else here who is going to the MACNA. Mr. Wilson and I will be the hosts. We thought we would find some sea food!!!!

Peter

Peter,
My wife and I will arrive late Thirsday night, too late for dinner. That said, we would both like it very much if you and others would stop in and see us. We are flying in for the show, to meet people, and will be helping friends with their booth. You can find my wife and I, Sandra and Tim, at the ReefWholesale exibitor booth on the floor. It is a distributor booth, so nothing to sell to the public, just there to support the hobby.

Given We are almost neighbours, it would be a pleasure to meet you, and Mr.Wilson if possible, at the show.

All the best, and I do hope to see you.
Tim