Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[advanced reef]

Good progress Peter, still awaiting the "meat" of the system , skimmer etc. wont even touch the car subject :celeb1:, fine machines all around. Funny as i just found a 23 yr old cliff thorburn 16 oz cue at my house, still rolls across the table perfectly...

 

[nineball]

Great work so far Peter. As for the ductwork question. I wil warn you before I give my two cents my tank is only 90 gallons and is about 4' below the duct work. So here we go..... My tank is underneath the ductwork for about 3 years now and I have not had any rust or staining at all.

Thanks for the encouraging info Chago.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Good progress Peter, still awaiting the "meat" of the system , skimmer etc. wont even touch the car subject :celeb1:, fine machines all around. Funny as i just found a 23 yr old cliff thorburn 16 oz cue at my house, still rolls across the table perfectly...

Thanks, the 'meat' arrives after the drywall is set in under two weeks, I hope.

If you have one of Cliffs Dufferin cues you have a collectors item. The Canadian hard maple used for those sticks was very unique and special for that run.

Peter

 

[advanced reef]

Indeed a dufferin, Now i dont want to use it.....

 

[nineball]

The ducts are aluminum not galv.

But Im thinking you may need more opening to avoid noise as mentioned above. You'll know first time you turn it on.

It's getting close to water testing!

Thanks Bax, you are correct. The placement size and number of holes was an engineering decision. They just laughed when the saw my suggestion.....

We did test it and it was totaly silent and vibration free.

So far so good.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Indeed a dufferin, Now i dont want to use it.....

You will have to bring it for the tank warming party. We'll get cliff to sign it.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Do you foresee an issue with oxyengenating the water with an air tight enclosure sucking out air?

Jonny, the cabinet is NOT totaly air tight but close except for the fresh air supply at the far end of the tank. The fan outpaces the fresh air intake in the cabinet creating the negative air pressure to ensure everything keeps moving in the right direction. If anything I believe the result is a good thing for the tank and its inhabitants.....yes?

Peter

 

[mr.wilson]

Lose the duct entirely, as it will corrode. It won't cause any problems other than looking unsightly. I also noticed it doesn't leave you much room to fit lights under or clearance to service the tank. It's nice to be able to lift the lights up and out of the way like Ching has done.

I don't think you need any duct work for it. It should draw from one location at one end as close to the ceiling as possible with a cold air intake at he opposing end low to the ground (where it's cooler). This will give you a dynamic air flow from end to end with hot going out and cold going in. Otherwise, it's a very impressive system you've put together.

The most effective way of keeping the water cool and venting heat & humidity is with circulation fans pointing down perpendicular to the display tank surface and passive vents at the ceiling. This causes evaporative cooling and moves hot air up to the ceiling where it can exit via the vents. As I mentioned before, a cold air intake at the floor will supply replacement air.

It looks like a 450 CFM Elicent fan (Italian like your sports cars). They are whisper quiet, including the air draw.

 

[nineball]

As stated by Peter it's a Alloy duct :frog: your build sure is looking good Peter.

Thanks madkeenreefer. There's still a way to go but there might be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Peter

 

[zaheda]

I cant wait to see this tank up and running.

 

[nineball]

I cant wait to see this tank up and running.

Me too zaheda, me too!! Thank you.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Experiment

Experiment

I call this ' Moonlight Over the Coral Sea'...........at midday!

Peter

 

[PauChi]

I call this ' Moonlight Over the Coral Sea'...........at midday!

Peter

Oakville's new camping ground ... !!

Paul

 

[maroun.c]

Ver interesting airflow setup.
Had to go with PVC tubing on mine especially the parts that were incorporated in the walls while the building was in construction as I couldn't risk any material that would corrode and cause me to break down walls to change it. I'm still wondering about the suction setup above the tank as that I can change whenever I want... So very interested how it'll perform above your tank. Was even considering building an air tight box around the exhaust of the chillers and to connect that to vents going outside as that would eliminate a lot of hot air the ventilation system has to work out, then I was worried I could be restricting the flow of the air exhaust of the chiller as my vent tubing is only 4 inches on each tube... so if yo uhave enough suction maybe that would take out a lot of the heat...
Oen last question, is that changing colour lighting system the philips one? As a Philips employee I'm always getting very positive input about it for my new house by the lighting guys. How do you like it and is it easy to reprogram?
Thanks for the great documentation.

 

[nineball]

Lose the duct entirely, as it will corrode. It won't cause any problems other than looking unsightly. I also noticed it doesn't leave you much room to fit lights under or clearance to service the tank. It's nice to be able to lift the lights up and out of the way like Ching has done.

I don't think you need any duct work for it. It should draw from one location at one end as close to the ceiling as possible with a cold air intake at he opposing end low to the ground (where it's cooler). This will give you a dynamic air flow from end to end with hot going out and cold going in. Otherwise, it's a very impressive system you've put together.

The most effective way of keeping the water cool and venting heat & humidity is with circulation fans pointing down perpendicular to the display tank surface and passive vents at the ceiling. This causes evaporative cooling and moves hot air up to the ceiling where it can exit via the vents. As I mentioned before, a cold air intake at the floor will supply replacement air.

It looks like a 450 CFM Elicent fan (Italian like your sports cars). They are whisper quiet, including the air draw.

Thank you Mr. Wilson, your comments are always welcome here!!!:wave:

The 'Eclipse' duct fan is actually a swedish make(Ostberg) and as you say whisper quiet.

Ventilation: a compromise Sean. I want complete management and control of the air flow. This configuration does that well. It is an alloy so I'm comfortable with the extent of corrosion we might see if any. Besides, optically you can't see the ductwork with the current design unless you are only 3 ft tall or you are on the floor doing god knows what.

You are absolutely, almost, completely right, more or less, on the lighting issue. Although I have not had a definitive plan finalized yet, I am pretty sure the lighting will involve LED lighting on a similar scale to the quality and capability of the MHL's. I am expecting some test data from Philips on the par values and performance characteristics of a custom design. My instincts tell me that the concern will migrate from max to minimum capability. These are very powerful lights that are well engineered to prevent any unwanted stray light in the non visible range (IR, UV) while offering a range of colours from pure white to any one of 64 million colours at varying levels of intensity as well.

I am waiting to hear from the engineers on the white light frequencies available. So far, I haven't seen anything above 6500 Kelvin but that may be just my limited depth perception in understanding the material. I should know in about a week. The final solution may well be a hybrid of sorts which captures the benefits of all programs across the board.

I have had one adjustment in the power arena. I have maxed out the existing 17,000 watt standby generator in the case of a complete power failure. I have had to add a second generator into the mix which in turn means a new natural gas meter as well. I am beginning to think that I just should have dammed up sixteen mile creek, throw in a few truckloads of salt and rented a lawn chair with an umbrella. Only reservation I might have is lugging all those cases of beer down to the creek for you folks. :wildone:

Peter

 

[nineball]

Ver interesting airflow setup.
Had to go with PVC tubing on mine especially the parts that were incorporated in the walls while the building was in construction as I couldn't risk any material that would corrode and cause me to break down walls to change it. I'm still wondering about the suction setup above the tank as that I can change whenever I want... So very interested how it'll perform above your tank. Was even considering building an air tight box around the exhaust of the chillers and to connect that to vents going outside as that would eliminate a lot of hot air the ventilation system has to work out, then I was worried I could be restricting the flow of the air exhaust of the chiller as my vent tubing is only 4 inches on each tube... so if yo uhave enough suction maybe that would take out a lot of the heat...
Oen last question, is that changing colour lighting system the philips one? As a Philips employee I'm always getting very positive input about it for my new house by the lighting guys. How do you like it and is it easy to reprogram?
Thanks for the great documentation.

Maroun, thanks for dropping by. I'm very comfortable that the air management design will work. Having said that if it doesn't it's not the end of the world and is easily replaceable with something else. Most if not all of it has been designed to be easily removable for maintenance and tank access.

In my case I did not want to rely on ANY of the primary systems feeding the house for this environment. I wanted the two environments to be mutually exclusive. No shared systems. Fresh air is being brought into the fish room through its own dedicated access to the outside. The exhaust to the outside is equally dedicated and separate for both the main display tank and the fish room. ANY humidity or heat from or part of this system is in a secure and managed environment apart from the house. Its really a house within a house. My obsession in this regard came from the Reef Central community as I was introduced to all the environmental disasters this hobby can produce in the average home. :bigeyes:


First Maroun, there are a bunch of different system in the Philips inventory. The stuff I have been working with is generally not easily available in the consumer channel because it is incredibly expensive and requires considerable knowledge and skills to design and install. The analogy my be the Custom Design stuff in high end home theater but this would probably even be outside that. It wouldn't pay them to advertise to our hobby constituency because even though it might be extremely appealing the expense would be way to much for the average hobbyist. And the truth is that right now the entire market size for these Philips LED's might just be the size of my display tank. And that's if they work!

To answer your question, once set up they are end user configurable but the end user has to be somewhat sophisticated, not necessarily a computer scientist but certainly comfortable with advanced technology. The fact is, that the toughest challenge is determining what you want to do now that you can vary the colour, intensity and frequency virtually throughout the tank. There is very little experience in the aquarists domain to help guide you on whats right or possible. Because its doable doesn't make it right or good for the animals we are caring for.

Then again.......If I worked for Philips aaaaaaannnd I could get a healthy discount, I would have no other lights in my home......period!

Peter

 

[nineball]

Oakville's new camping ground ... !!

Paul

No Paul, Oakville would be GREEN! Oakville, get it? Oak? Tree? Green........?

:wavehand:

Peter

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for the reply Peter.
Actually the only thing between me and getting the hometheater lighting system is the fact that it would be stuck on light blue to match with the tank lighting as the wife says "so I might as well just have a second set of blue lights that I could just light up whenever I'm in my Tank watching mood" as she says...
Still the discount is tempting... as you say!!!
Its good that you see changes with that much "openness" after having been through so many systems and ideas that had to be changed over 12 years in the hobby I'm really wanting everything to be just right since the start which I know never happens...
can't wait to see the first fisha nd corals go in your tank.

 

[mr.wilson]

The 'Eclipse' duct fan is actually a swedish make(Ostberg) and as you say whisper quiet.

I am expecting some test data from Philips on the par values and performance. These are very powerful lights that are well engineered to prevent any unwanted stray light in the non visible range (IR, UV) while offering a range of colours from pure white to any one of 64 million colours at varying levels of intensity as well.

I am waiting to hear from the engineers on the white light frequencies available. So far, I haven't seen anything above 6500 Kelvin but that may be just my limited depth perception in understanding the material. I should know in about a week. The final solution may well be a hybrid of sorts which captures the benefits of all programs across the board.

Peter

With all that backup power in your bunker I would suggest a steel hatch and a good zombie riffle. They can sense the light and they love fish

Swedish-built is even better than Italian. I'm only half Swedish so you can imagine what the you get operating at 100%

Yes, 6500 Kelvin is the max for white light as that is the colour temperature of the sun. You add blue light to get higher Kelvin values. The R & G of RGB are red and green which have no value in reef aquaria. With LED you start off with the desired number of (usually 3 watt) 6500k white lights to get optimum PAR & intensity, then you mix in as many blue LEDs as it takes to get the colour temperature you want. Most corals require some blue light but for the most part it's cosmetic. Blue light cuts the yellow tint of aquarium water and makes it look clean & crisp.

You are correct, LED fixtures are very low profile so the duct would only interfere with servicing access to the tank. LED lights have no UV properties. MHL has long ans shortwave UV but most of it is filtered out by a quartz glass sleeve or a lens in the fixture.

In addition to the par values, you should find out the intensity (LUX) so you can make sure you are in the 5,000 to 10,000 range so you don't have photoinhabition (too much light, causing the coral to cease photosynthsis) and you can be sure that corals on the bottom are getting enough light for photsynthetic compensation (production of more oxygen & energy than what the coral needs for itself).

 

[nineball]

With all that backup power in your bunker I would suggest a steel hatch and a good zombie riffle. They can sense the light and they love fish

Swedish-built is even better than Italian. I'm only half Swedish so you can imagine what the you get operating at 100%

Yes, 6500 Kelvin is the max for white light as that is the colour temperature of the sun. You add blue light to get higher Kelvin values. The R & G of RGB are red and green which have no value in reef aquaria. With LED you start off with the desired number of (usually 3 watt) 6500k white lights to get optimum PAR & intensity, then you mix in as many blue LEDs as it takes to get the colour temperature you want. Most corals require some blue light but for the most part it's cosmetic. Blue light cuts the yellow tint of aquarium water and makes it look clean & crisp.

You are correct, LED fixtures are very low profile so the duct would only interfere with servicing access to the tank. LED lights have no UV properties. MHL has long ans shortwave UV but most of it is filtered out by a quartz glass sleeve or a lens in the fixture.

In addition to the par values, you should find out the intensity (LUX) so you can make sure you are in the 5,000 to 10,000 range so you don't have photoinhabition (too much light, causing the coral to cease photosynthsis) and you can be sure that corals on the bottom are getting enough light for photsynthetic compensation (production of more oxygen & energy than what the coral needs for itself).

Shawn, this is hugely helpful. I have been hunting for this info. Thank you very much.

Peter