Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[nineball]

Evaporation is mostly influenced by the surface area of the water exposed to air, ambient temperature and humidity. Greater surface area and temperature will increase evaporation. Greater humidity will lower evaporation.

Fans increase evaporation by exchanging higher humidity air with that of lower humidity. Trying to determine your exact evaporation can be a complex task due to other variables such as partial pressure of gasses, etc.

Covering your holding tanks will greatly reduce evaporation but will not allow gas exchange, such as not allowing C02 to be released and hence accumulate, which will lower your ph.

I would guess your total evaporation for your system will be in the 10-15 gallons per day range. You can run a slow RO/DI freshwater drip to adjust for this and keep an eye on your salinity, then adjust the drip up or down as needed to maintain your salinity set point.

Elliott, thanks. I have just 'uncovered' the tanks and have started the slow drip. I had marked (actually John from DQI) the levels after the last salt measurement. That's how I knew about the evaporation. I will remeasure both vats tomorrow and check the baseline. I think your math is correct with respect to the amount of evaporation and I think the suggestion to establish an hourly rate for the display tank and fish room....open system and mars bars makes alot of sense. Most of the ro/di water production is automated so I think I can take the last steps to a controller after I have things rolling into production.

Peter

 

[Elliott]

Elliott, thanks. I have just 'uncovered' the tanks and have started the slow drip. I had marked (actually John from DQI) the levels after the last salt measurement. That's how I knew about the evaporation. I will remeasure both vats tomorrow and check the baseline. I think your math is correct with respect to the amount of evaporation and I think the suggestion to establish an hourly rate for the display tank and fish room....open system and mars bars makes alot of sense. Most of the ro/di water production is automated so I think I can take the last steps to a controller after I have things rolling into production.

Peter

Next, you need to consider the lost volume of saltwater used by the skimmer which has very similar salinity to your display tank. This needs to be replenished with saltwater. I have a freshly made saltwater reservoir for this purpose. As my skimmer removes saltwater from the system a float switch installed in my sump is triggered to turn on a pump located in the saltwater reservoir, which pumps fresh saltwater into the system. So, I am replacing the dirtiest seawater from the skimmer with the cleanest seawater from the reservoir, on a 1:1 volume basis. In this way I am continually doing a water change, and most efficiently.

 

[Elliott]

speaking of skimmers... here is the world's largest! :thumbsup:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/04/gulf.oil.disaster/index.html?hpt=T1

 

[Salt_in_MyBlood]

Peter
Sorry to hear about your pump problems. I am sure you and you team will get things figured out and if not, the great wealth of information on here will.

I am just glad to see I was not the only one slaving away Canada day. Your work would have been a heck of alot cleaner then what i was doing. 2000 sq ft of plaster and lathe...... what a mess, fill a 40 cu yard dumpster. I just have to keep picturing the end product, like you need to do Peter.

Will try to keep up with all the posts...... good luck monday.

 

[swissgaurd]

peter
in my line of work increasing a pumps outflow size isnt the best practice.
what happens is you decrease the velocity, the velocity can be increased by adding ninetys and valves,to get the amount you like. if you decrease the pipe size its vise versa.
think of a garden hose,put your finger over the outlet. what you can do if you want to get a little technical is install an inline flowmeter to see what your output is.

vic

 

[nineball]

peter
in my line of work increasing a pumps outflow size isnt the best practice.
what happens is you decrease the velocity, the velocity can be increased by adding ninetys and valves,to get the amount you like. if you decrease the pipe size its vise versa.
think of a garden hose,put your finger over the outlet. what you can do if you want to get a little technical is install an inline flowmeter to see what your output is.

vic

Brilliant, I think a flow meter should probably make it on to the equipment shelf for future performance measurement. Sometimes I feel so dumb........


Thanks Vic,

Peter

 

[nineball]

update...

update...

How does the saying go.....just when you think you are free the fish room sucks you right back in. Just discovered a rather significant crack in the sump leading to a pipe socket which has a christmas tree of fractures around it. This means it has to be replaced. Since it is part of the open system I will probably run the closed loop untill the replacement comes in. This will allow me to do the live rock sculpting with out any negative impact on the time line. This hobby is just so much fun.........:hmm5:


Peter

 

[swissgaurd]

dont feel like that peter
you have so far accomplished what many dream of

good job

vic

 

[chingchai]

How does the saying go.....just when you think you are free the fish room sucks you right back in. Just discovered a rather significant crack in the sump leading to a pipe socket which has a christmas tree of fractures around it. This means it has to be replaced. Since it is part of the open system I will probably run the closed loop untill the replacement comes in. This will allow me to do the live rock sculpting with out any negative impact on the time line. This hobby is just so much fun.........:hmm5:


Peter

Peter. You will encounter more obstacles. Believe it or not.
But the end result will be the real happiness.
BTW, who says that this is the "hobby"!:lmao:

 

[mr.wilson]

Sorry to hear about the crack. I can only imagine.:hmm4:

Many big tank owners with big sumps go with PVC tanks or Rubbermaid livestock troughs because they can take the abuse that gets dished out in the filter room.

As I mentioned recently, stress relief flex hose will take the pressure off of sumps, display tanks and valves. Make sure that whatever caused the crack doesn't rear its ugly head again. It's all about minimizing chances for disaster. Magnet coupled pumps and stress relief connectors make your life a lot easier.

 

[nineball]

dont feel like that peter
you have so far accomplished what many dream of

good job

vic

Peter. You will encounter more obstacles. Believe it or not.
But the end result will be the real happiness.
BTW, who says that this is the "hobby"!:lmao:

Thank you both for your support. I'm not depressed, I don't think you can afford emotions like that and be a part of the hobby.........and yes Chingchai, this is very much more than a hobby!!!

 

[nineball]

Sorry to hear about the crack. I can only imagine.:hmm4:

Many big tank owners with big sumps go with PVC tanks or Rubbermaid livestock troughs because they can take the abuse that gets dished out in the filter room.

As I mentioned recently, stress relief flex hose will take the pressure off of sumps, display tanks and valves. Make sure that whatever caused the crack doesn't rear its ugly head again. It's all about minimizing chances for disaster. Magnet coupled pumps and stress relief connectors make your life a lot easier.

I remember your advice eons ago that change in this hobby is an occupational hazard. I think I am going to take this opportunity to rethink some elements of the fish room while I have the chance, so keep that lemonade stand open.

Peter

 

[dantimdad]

Just finished reading the entire thread over three days. I applaud your dedication and patience.

I am sure this tank will be a beauty to behold when complete (are they ever really complete?).

Thanks!

 

[reefgeek31]

How does the saying go.....just when you think you are free the fish room sucks you right back in. Just discovered a rather significant crack in the sump leading to a pipe socket which has a christmas tree of fractures around it. This means it has to be replaced. Since it is part of the open system I will probably run the closed loop untill the replacement comes in. This will allow me to do the live rock sculpting with out any negative impact on the time line. This hobby is just so much fun.........:hmm5:


Peter

Well think on the bright side "my tank just split at the seam" Yup I'm out I'm done for a log time! I will continue to keep up wit this amazing thread and tank but just from a different point of view. I wish you the best will need a lot of stamina to keep up with your ever changing tank demands!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you will be fine. Just think how much more you understand things all ready. Geesh you are all ready calling out for change and it is your first tank! Your a smart man as we can all tell. Have fun when it becomes work its not worth it, Mine is work so I'm done!

 

[mr.wilson]

Well think on the bright side "my tank just split at the seam" Yup I'm out I'm done for a log time! I will continue to keep up wit this amazing thread and tank but just from a different point of view. I wish you the best will need a lot of stamina to keep up with your ever changing tank demands!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you will be fine. Just think how much more you understand things all ready. Geesh you are all ready calling out for change and it is your first tank! Your a smart man as we can all tell. Have fun when it becomes work its not worth it, Mine is work so I'm done!

Sorry to hear about your tank. As if there weren't enough pitfalls already without the tank itself letting go. What do you think the cause was? I like to keep track of tank breaks so I can modify my design accordingly.

 

[Mikeygo1]

nineball, I am new to the hobby, so I am not much help when it comes to the finer points, but I have been selling industrial fluid system components for 8 years , and I think I may be able to give you a few possible causes for your pump problems.

The first thing I would look at would be the back pressure this can be caused by any restrictions on the outlet side of your pump. The most common culprits are filters and valves in your case the ball valves, If you look at the bore through the ball it should be full bore or in your case 1 ½” if not it will restrict flow. You also have to consider how you reduced your line size; this is creating a lot of back pressure. If you have too much back pressure you can get what is called chopping where the impeller is spinning but cannot get flow downstream, you should be able to hear the pump chopping away at the water. This could have been why your team thought the pump was too loud.

The second thing I would look at is the return side of the pump, it is common to use larger pipe on the return side of the pump than on the outlet this is to allow for adequate inlet supply and offer a better differential pressure across the pump. This can also cause chopping, and will burn up a pump. Just because the pump has the same size connections on the inlet and outlet does not mean that the lines should be the same size.

I would caution you that pressure and flow are very different, and just getting a larger pump may not solve your problems. If you are getting too much back pressure with a larger pump you could over pressure the piping on the downstream side and cause leaks or a critical failure (pipe might burst), or you may seriously degrade the life of the pump. If it is a supply problem on the inlet of the pump a new pump may be able to pull a strong enough vacuum to overcome this problem, but burn out the pump prematurely.

I hope this information is of some use to you and that you get that bad boy up and running soon I can’t wait to see the final product for all your hard work.

 

[nineball]

nineball, I am new to the hobby, so I am not much help when it comes to the finer points, but I have been selling industrial fluid system components for 8 years , and I think I may be able to give you a few possible causes for your pump problems.

The first thing I would look at would be the back pressure this can be caused by any restrictions on the outlet side of your pump. The most common culprits are filters and valves in your case the ball valves, If you look at the bore through the ball it should be full bore or in your case 1 ½" if not it will restrict flow. You also have to consider how you reduced your line size; this is creating a lot of back pressure. If you have too much back pressure you can get what is called chopping where the impeller is spinning but cannot get flow downstream, you should be able to hear the pump chopping away at the water. This could have been why your team thought the pump was too loud.

The second thing I would look at is the return side of the pump, it is common to use larger pipe on the return side of the pump than on the outlet this is to allow for adequate inlet supply and offer a better differential pressure across the pump. This can also cause chopping, and will burn up a pump. Just because the pump has the same size connections on the inlet and outlet does not mean that the lines should be the same size.

I would caution you that pressure and flow are very different, and just getting a larger pump may not solve your problems. If you are getting too much back pressure with a larger pump you could over pressure the piping on the downstream side and cause leaks or a critical failure (pipe might burst), or you may seriously degrade the life of the pump. If it is a supply problem on the inlet of the pump a new pump may be able to pull a strong enough vacuum to overcome this problem, but burn out the pump prematurely.

I hope this information is of some use to you and that you get that bad boy up and running soon I can't wait to see the final product for all your hard work.

Thank you Mikeygo and a warm welcome to the thread. Your analysis and suggestions are a great comfort as we are looking at exactly the issues you point out. I will be giving frequent updates so you should be able to measure and rate our progress each step of the way. For the moment our cracked sump has captured our focus so it may be a day before we are wrapped back into the pump domain.

Again, welcome to the group.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Sorry to hear about your tank. As if there weren't enough pitfalls already without the tank itself letting go. What do you think the cause was? I like to keep track of tank breaks so I can modify my design accordingly.

Thank you Mr. Wilson. We can't for the life of 'us' figure out what happened except that the first logical explanation was that the pipe fitting was over-torqued. Its one of those things that might not have shown up right away. We have had to take the entire sled of equipment up and down a couple of times so with so many connections the risks of something like this go up exponentially. Having said that it happens that the offending crack was on a fitting that did NOT have a flex portion as you had suggested in an earlier post. Now I suspect the replacement will.........:beer:

This is not fun but I can tell you that each step forward feels better with a clearer understanding of best practices in each of the areas. This is definitely an appropriate subject for the chapter on plumbing. I will be taking a picture of the offending connection for posterity so its yours when you need it.

I think we need a bigger boat!!!!er fish room!!!

Peter

 

[nineball]

Well think on the bright side "my tank just split at the seam" Yup I'm out I'm done for a log time! I will continue to keep up wit this amazing thread and tank but just from a different point of view. I wish you the best will need a lot of stamina to keep up with your ever changing tank demands!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you will be fine. Just think how much more you understand things all ready. Geesh you are all ready calling out for change and it is your first tank! Your a smart man as we can all tell. Have fun when it becomes work its not worth it, Mine is work so I'm done!

Well my friend, when a member of the family has this kind of calamity we can do nothing but pull together for support. I am very sorry to hear about your crash. I understand the need for a break after something like that. I'm not trying to sound trite but perhaps if you have the emotional strength to stick around you will be welcome to live vicariously through this one until you are ready to jump back in. I figure this tank belongs to you guys anyway because I sure as heck wouldn't have taken on a project of this size without the support of a group like this.

For the moment I have work to do to make this thing something you guys will be proud of. Keep checking in...........you are always welcome here.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Just finished reading the entire thread over three days. I applaud your dedication and patience.

I am sure this tank will be a beauty to behold when complete (are they ever really complete?).

Thanks!

Each and every time someone new comes to this thread and indicates they took the time to plod through all of it I am humbled and especially pleased that the group has increased with a knowledgeable addition. Thank you for taking the time and welcome to the community.

Peter