Corals are slowly dying and I can't figure out why??

I do not believe that any corals we keep have a need for supplemental iodine, aside from certian gorgonia. Many if not most experienced reefers that have dosed iodine and stopped noticed no change in their aquaria, including me.

For every reefer that didn't see any change there is a reefer who saw one. There are many cases (including myself) where reefers added Iodine and saw improvement in coral's condition and colors. Of caurse if you have enough Iodine adding more wouldn't help, but if you have deficiency it will.
The same with Amino acids- you know how many reefers didn't see any change after adding them? so it means AA are useless?

As with any supplement, tetsing is the best advice, and Red Sea has a good testing kit for Iodine.

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I just started with a weekly dose of Iodine last night. I think it will be few weeks before I see any discernible results.

I do also believe that my reduced feedings could've weekend some of the corals. I will go back to feeding 2 to 3 x per week as I have done in years past.
 
For every reefer that didn't see any change there is a reefer who saw one.

I don't agree, and I think most highly experienced reefers eventually realize that on their own if they try stopping and observe the tank.

There are many cases (including myself) where reefers added Iodine and saw improvement in coral's condition and colors.

We are talking about bleaching SPS here, not colors. Most such folks add lots of stuff with their iodine, and can't tell what did what, and many color comments aren't even related to supplements even though people attribute them that way. And you did not say you did what I suggested, which was to change nothing else and stop iodine only and see what the effect was. You did the opposite, looking for a positive effect. The placebo effect is quite evident in reefers who add stuff looking for color improvements.

That said, if you think it is helpful for you, then by all means keep doing it, but I don't think it is going to solve anyones dying coral problem.
 
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For every reefer that didn't see any change there is a reefer who saw one.

I don't agree, and I think most highly experienced reefers eventually realize that on their own if they try stopping and observe the tank.

There are many cases (including myself) where reefers added Iodine and saw improvement in coral's condition and colors.


That said, if you think it is helpful for you, then by all means keep doing it, but I don't think it is going to solve anyones dying coral problem.

I'm pretty sure that the situation here isn't just the result of Iodine deficiency, but it might be part of the problem. Since he cannot find (for now) another reason for the condition of the corals, adding Iodine might be a good start towards changing things for the better.
 
I just started with a weekly dose of Iodine last night. I think it will be few weeks before I see any discernible results.

I do also believe that my reduced feedings could've weekend some of the corals. I will go back to feeding 2 to 3 x per week as I have done in years past.

Make sure that you dose Lugol's and not just Iodine
 
Viral communities associated with healthy and bleaching corals
Kristen L. Marhaver1,*, Robert A. Edwards2, Forest Rohwer3Article first published online: 9 MAY 2008
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1462-2920.2008.01652.x/full

The coral holobiont is the integrated assemblage of the coral animal, its symbiotic algae, protists, fungi and a diverse consortium of Bacteria and Archaea. Corals are a model system for the study of symbiosis, the breakdown of which can result in disease and mortality. Little is known, however, about viruses that infect corals and their symbionts. Here we present metagenomic analyses of the viral communities associated with healthy and partially bleached specimens of the Caribbean reef-building coral Diploria strigosa. Surprisingly, herpes-like sequences accounted for 4–8% of the total sequences in each metagenome; this abundance of herpes-like sequences is unprecedented in other marine viral metagenomes. Viruses similar to those that infect algae and plants were also present in the coral viral assemblage. Among the phage identified, cyanophages were abundant in both healthy and bleaching corals and vibriophages were also present. Therefore, coral-associated viruses could potentially infect all components of the holobiont – coral, algal and microbial. Thus, we expect viruses to figure prominently in the preservation and breakdown of coral health.

Within a coral's skeleton, tissue and mucus, there exists a diverse assemblage of Bacteria, Archaea, algae, fungi and protists (Knowlton and Rohwer, 2003). Endosymbiotic algae, called zooxanthellae, and some Bacteria form relatively stable and species-specific associations with corals (Rohwer et al., 2002; Goulet, 2006). It has been hypothesized that the coral animal can adapt to differing ecological niches by ‘switching’ its algal and microbial associates. In the case of corals and zooxanthellae, this so-called adaptive bleaching may allow the coral animal to adjust to changing water temperatures (Buddemeier et al., 2004). Coral-associated Bacteria can serve as a food source for corals (Sorokin, 1973; Bak et al., 1998) and provide beneficial metabolic capabilities such as nitrogen fixation in at least one coral species (Lesser et al., 2004; 2007). It has been hypothesized that changes in microbe–coral associations will facilitate the survival of corals under future environmental changes (Reshef et al., 2006).

The least-studied constituents in the coral holobiont are the viruses. No cnidarian viruses have been isolated to sufficient purity to be identified genetically prior to this study, although viruses have been observed visually in association with corals and other cnidarians. An observation of virus-like particles (VLPs) in the zooxanthellae of anemones first implicated viruses in coral bleaching (Chapman, 1974; Wilson and Chapman, 2001). VLPs were later observed in the tissues of heat-shocked and control specimens of the scleractinian coral Pavona danai (Wilson et al., 2005) and in the tissue and zooxanthellae of three coral species and one species of zoanthid, all under thermal stress (Davy et al., 2006). The origin of these VLPs was not known. A recent study demonstrated that UV stress induced one type of latent virus in cultures of coral zooxanthellae (Lohr et al., 2007). In sum, observations of VLPs in corals have generally been made under the impression that their presence is an indicator of coral stress or disease (Wilson et al., 2005; Davy et al., 2006). However, given the abundance and diversity of coral-associated microbes, it is expected that these virus populations will consist of abundant and diverse bacteriophages in addition to viruses suspected to target eukaryotic cells, and that viruses will consistently be found in association with corals.

Viral genetic diversity is difficult to characterize because viruses share no single conserved sequence that can be used in a manner analogous to the sequencing of ribosomal RNA from cellular organisms (Rohwer and Edwards, 2002). Individual viruses contain extremely small amounts of DNA (Steward et al., 2000) and often use modified bases, making cloning difficult (Warren, 1980). Viruses also carry genes toxic to bacterial cloning hosts (Wang et al., 2000). Thus, in order to characterize an entire community of coral-associated viruses genetically, the viruses must be physically isolated from bacterial, archaeal, algal and host cells, as well as free DNA, prior to DNA extraction and cloning (Rohwer et al., 2001a). Here, a homogenization and centrifugation technique was developed to purify viruses from the tissues of healthy and partially bleached specimens of the Caribbean coral Diploria strigosa. Shotgun sequencing and metagenomic analyses were then used to determine the genetic content and diversity of these two viral communities. Our results show that coral-associated viruses are extraordinarily diverse and potentially infect all members of the coral holobiont.....................................


................Here we have described the complexity of an under-studied facet of the coral holobiont. Herpes-like viruses occur in both healthy and bleaching corals. This should be a focus for future research on coral holobiont complexity, symbiosis and immunology. The largest identified functional group of coral-associated viruses, cyanophages, may affect the population structure of symbiotic cyanobacteria and endolitic algae, while vibriophages present in coral tissue may affect the pathogenesis of coral-associated Vibrio spp. While these are important structuring forces for the coral holobiont, the prediction that up to 28 600 viral types occur in a healthy coral's viral community indicates that there are myriad functions and interactions still unidentified in this viral assemblage. When compared in the framework of a phage phylogenetic tree, coral-associated phage communities from bleaching and healthy corals are not significantly different from each other, but the coral holobiont as a phage environment is distinct from that of coral reef and oceanic waters. Thus, it appears that a diverse community of viruses continuously occupies coral tissues. With the potential to target animal, algal and microbial cells, viruses are likely to be crucial in maintaining the overall function of the coral holobiont.
 
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Make sure that you dose Lugol's and not just Iodine


I presume you mean not just iodide? Or did you really mean iodine (I2)?

In either case, why?
 
Lugol's is elemental iodine and can be toxic . If you are set on dosing an iodine supplement , iodide is more readily bio availabe and safer.
 
The reason for bleaching occuring in coral is related to their symbionts. Iodine is not going to help out in this situation and can cause more bad than any possible good.

You don't know exactly why the bleaching occured and there was a reason for this bleaching to occur. Adding other things to your tank other than maintaining alk, calcium and mag can only complicate the matter in your situation. ;)

I second Randy's post, why dose iodine in this situation.
 
FWIW, I have searched the Internet looking for any possible benefit for coral related to iodine as has Randy. Randy's search was much more intensive than I was able to do, since he scoured text books and other articles I don't have access to. When you add things like iodine, interactions occur which can cause problems for many organisms, especially the symbionts within the coral. These symbionts live together and interact with the coral tissues in a delicate balance. You disrupt this balance and the coral will expel the symbionts or if you change water parameters other species of symbionts will become dominate within the coral tissue. In many cases the changed symbiont specie will secrete toxins which kill the coral tissue. Also these changes will cause viruses to take over in some cases which end up killing the coral tissue. The article I posted above did find that there are many virus that also act within a symbiotic way with the coral tissue. Changes in the virus (mutations) can occur as well if you change water parameters.

Scientists are investigating coral bleaching in a big way currently to try and discover why this occurs and looking for possible methods to correct the problem once the bleaching occurs. Iodine has not helped out to correct the problem. Most of the bleaching in coral occurs due to changes in lighting and increased water temperatures. Too much food can lead to bleaching. Too little food results in lack of growth. The amount of food available to coral like dissolved organic carbon is another factor that can cause bleaching. Too much DOC will cause bleaching. Not enough results in poor growth. Heavy metals will do this too.
 
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Once coral bleaching occurs, there seems to be two things that happen and scientists don't really know why.

1) Coral can recover once the situation that caused it is corrected.

2) Coral do not recover and it ends up dieing.

The current line of thought for the #2 is that disease from bacterial or viral changes occur which are not irreversible. The species of the coral does play into this, with some species more resistant to the disease. ;)
 
Measuring iodine in the reef tank is easier said than done. The test kits we have available are very poor IMO to determine what is truly going on with iodine and all the forms it takes. Sending samples off even to a lab, require expertise in understanding how to do it properly in seawater, which many labs can't do. Overdosing will cause problems.

My advice is to take the advice a reef chemist like Randy (with a PhD), who thoroughly understands what is going on rather than simple observations from hobbyists who have not conducted their little experiments in a manor that can exclude many, many other factors which would take a book to write about. Remeber the placebo effect can occur in about 1/3 to 1/2 of hobbyists that try something new. This is where the scientific research helps out.

If someone can post some proper research that proves my statements wrong please enlighten me. I will take no offense to such posts. :lol:
 
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If someone can post some proper research that proves my statements wrong please enlighten me. I will take no offense to such posts. :lol:

I respect what you and Randy wrote, and I agree with most of it.

There is only one little problem- reefing isn't just pure science, and there are many things we still don't know and can only speculate about the corals and other members of our reef.

Let me understand something- you actually insist that Iodine and Potassium Iodide (which are both in lugol's solution) aren't necessary for the corals?.. so if there is deficiency in one of them or both, there won't be any negative effect?
 
There is no I2 in seawater, so aquaria are never "deficient" in it.

It is a bit stronger to say most corals need none than to say they need no supplemental iodine. I strongly believe most do not benefit from supplements, and I think they need none. I've tried adding some several times over the years and never noticed any effect, as have many others, and there is no known biochemical need for iodine by most corals in the scientific literature.
 
Ok randy, let me ask you these:

Is it possible that adding Iodine to the water will help in treating bacterial infection in corals?
 
By adding I2 at levels around 0.06 ppm or less?

I think that is very unlikely when so dilute, but I can't prove it can't have an effect like that. :)
 
One thing that crossed my mind was the RO/DI. How old are the cartridges? DI resin exhausted? Aren't there somethings that can go through the RO/DI that aren't filtered out? The reason I mention this is because I have well water and live in close proximity to a landfill. I wonder what sort of chemicals are not removed by RO/DI and don't show up on a TDS meter.
 
Even if I2 can kill bacteria, how do you know if it is going to kill the good bacteria or the bad bacteria or perhaps both. Introducing anitbacterial agents can have profound effects on the bacterial populations in the mucal layers and within the coral tissues. You kill the good bacteria with lets say iodine, than the bad bacteria can take over. The problem is it can take long periods of time for this to show up as coral bleaching. I'm begining to wonder if treating coral with iodine dips can potentially cause more problems than good in many cases. Messing with the bacterial, viral and algae sybionts within coral tissues and within their mucal layers is a touchy business and we have not begun to identify all the different bacteria and viruses that cause coral to bleach. :)

For example. You will need to read the entire article to get to the bottom of what I am refering too. ;)

How Microbial Community Composition Regulates Coral Disease Development
Modeling reveals how rapid overgrowth by pathogenic microbes in the mucus layer surrounding corals, which often occurs under temporary stressful conditions, can persist long after environmental conditions return to normal. PLoS Biology, 2010 - dx.plos.org

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1000345


Abstract

Reef coral cover is in rapid decline worldwide, in part due to bleaching (expulsion of photosynthetic symbionts) and outbreaks of infectious disease. One important factor associated with bleaching and in disease transmission is a shift in the composition of the microbial community in the mucus layer surrounding the coral: the resident microbial community—which is critical to the healthy functioning of the coral holobiont—is replaced by pathogenic microbes, often species of Vibrio. In this paper we develop computational models for microbial community dynamics in the mucus layer in order to understand how the surface microbial community responds to changes in environmental conditions, and under what circumstances it becomes vulnerable to overgrowth by pathogens. Some of our model's assumptions and parameter values are based on Vibrio spp. as a model system for other established and emerging coral pathogens. We find that the pattern of interactions in the surface microbial community facilitates the existence of alternate stable states, one dominated by antibiotic-producing beneficial microbes and the other pathogen-dominated. A shift to pathogen dominance under transient stressful conditions, such as a brief warming spell, may persist long after environmental conditions have returned to normal. This prediction is consistent with experimental findings that antibiotic properties of Acropora palmata mucus did not return to normal long after temperatures had fallen. Long-term loss of antibiotic activity eliminates a critical component in coral defense against disease, giving pathogens an extended opportunity to infect and spread within the host, elevating the risk of coral bleaching, disease, and mortality.
 
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What are the long term effects of using antibiotics like erythromycin and lugols dips on the coral symbionts? We need more research to determine this, but bad effects are certainly possilbe. The effects on different coral species can be quite different as well. :)
 
Another example of what can cause problems for coral, algae in contact with coral tissues:

Algal contact as a trigger for coral disease
Maggy M. Nugues1,*, Garriet W. Smith2, Ruben J. van Hooidonk1, Maria I. Seabra1, Rolf P. M. Bak1Article first published online: 26 AUG 2004

DOI: 10.1111/j.1461-0248.2004.00651.x
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1461-0248.2004.00651.x/full

Abstract
Diseases are causing alarming declines in reef-building coral species, the foundation blocks of coral reefs. The emergence of these diseases has occurred simultaneously with large increases in the abundance of benthic macroalgae. Here, we show that physical contact with the macroalga Halimeda opuntia can trigger a virulent disease known as white plague type II that has caused widespread mortality in most Caribbean coral species. Colonies of the dominant coral Montastraea faveolata exposed to algal transplants developed the disease whereas unexposed colonies did not. The bacterium Aurantimonas coralicida, causative agent of the disease, was present on H. opuntia sampled close to, and away from diseased corals, indicating that the alga serves as a reservoir for this pathogen. Our results suggest that the spread of macroalgae on coral reefs could account for the elevated incidence of coral diseases over past decades and that reduction of macroalgal abundance could help control coral epizootics.
 
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