Corals dying slowly. Please help!

[guits]

I have a nano filled with Caribbean Rose Corals (Manicina areolata) that I painstakingly collected from multiple orders of Florida live rock that did great for 2 years. Then starting in August (after I was gone for vacation for 1 week) things went downhill, with bleached tissue, tissue recession, and the polyps not expanding as much as the past 2 years. I lost 2 specimens and the bleached areas are colored up again, but I am still noticing some tissue recession at the edges of several specimens. I've tried dipping, increased feeding, increased water changes - nothing seems to help. I'm fairly resigned and will continue supportive care as best I can!

 

[180+55reef]

Your alk and calc are likely the cause........highly imo





QUOTE=DerekG4;24140315]I haven't tested the alk in a while, I gotta test it later

My dad adds alk once a week (The bottle we have has a lot of alk, it's pretty potent.) and we change the water (20g-35g) about every month or 2. Back then for the first 4 months we only did 1 water change and never again did we do it. Matter of fact, the problem started when changed the water more regularly. The owner from another LFS told us either we could change the water weekly (5g) biweekly (10g) or monthly (20g-35g) so we did it biweekly and after that we just started doing it every month.[/QUOTE]

 

[180+55reef]

For both

 

[wakesetter]

You say that only LPS are affected, do you have any SPS that are doing well? Also do you have any leathers that are doing badly?

If both of these are yes then your water is probably too clean! You need some nitrates and phosphates for LPS and leathers to do well. Also SPS will do fine with low levels of each as they too need the nutrients to thrive. I've seen this happen quite often

Super weird advice. Too clean? Pretty unlikely when he has hair algae and what sounds like cyano growing in the tank. I would go the opposite direction if I had to randomly guess and say that the nutrient levels are too high. Yes, that would probably cause the SPS to do poorly as well, but most people without any carbon dosing have too much nutrient rather than too little.

The other comment that states that our tanks become better at removing Phos an nitrate as they mature is whacky. Tanks accumulate these nutrients over time, I think we all wish tanks were more able to neutralize phos and nitrate over time.

OP, what are your Phosphate and Nitrate levels? If you are going to ask questions about your tank, it is always good to list your accurate Ca, Alk, Phos and Nitrate levels. Without that info, all we can do is guess. My apologies if I missed it, but I don't think you mentioned the actual value of 3 out of 4 of those paramaters

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Too clean of water happens to be a problem all the time with many tanks. Not weird advice at all. Too many want to have 0 Nitrates but SPS do better with some nitrates and phosphates. Its a fact not my opinion. You also forgot to mention one of the most important things that supports life with algae... Lights If the LPS and leathers/softies are doing fine but the SPS are not then the water is too dirty. If the SPS is doing great and the others are not then it's too clean. It's a hard balance to have all three types of corals in the same tank in regards to water quality.

 

[wakesetter]

Definitely not saying that it can't happen, but unlikely for someone that isn't using GFO or pellets and appears to be kind of newer to reefing. It seems like a pretty big reach to say that someones water is too clean without knowing nutrient levels and could possibly cause even more damage to the livestock as he attempts to "dirty up" the water.

You seem to reach for very simple solutions. I disagree that it is hard to have SPS, LPS and softies together. They all live together in the wild, not sepererated by water quality zones. Many tanks thrive with all three types of corals doing great in the same tank.

Giving us the main 4 water test results would help us much better in pointing him in the right direction. Without those #s we are really all just guessing. Lighting info might be helpful as well.

 

[wakesetter]

OP: post your nitrate, Phosphate, Calcium and Alk.

We are here to help with your problem, not argue with each other.

 

[wakesetter]

Holy mother of goats Dkuhlmann, you have 4416 posts and only joined 8 months ago??? That's 18.4 posts per day for 8 months, that has to be some sort of record. You must have some seriously calloused finger tips. And that was during the better months in NW Iowa. I can't imagine your post count once the winter weather rolls in and you are locked in the house with your tanks and a computer!

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Yes I have no life other than RC. I've been off of work since June 18th having had spine surgery and looking like I'll be having another one soon This pain is outrageous and I surely hope they can get rid of it in the very near future. I've been off work since June 17th the surgery was June 18th.

 

[soeminpaing]

In my case, it was chemicals I added to treat my fish from internal parasites. I lost quite a lot of LPS. I would run carbon in your case. Not too much carbon, just recommended amount, change weekly. About waterchange, i would do large water change about 50 percent first time and 20 percent monthly. And thirdly, I would watch out for alkalinity, LPS will shrink and suffer if alkalinity drop real low. Even SPS like montipora seem fine with low alkalinity while LPS are suffering from it. Just as a caution, I would check stray voltage for a peace of mind. Lighting, circulation should be keep as usual without tinkering much. And regular coral feeding depending on types. LPS like acans can kept with very clean water and regular feeding two- three times a week. Zoas can live in very clean water unless it is ULNS like zeovit. If you have biopellet, it can screw up redfield ratio which is like 106:16:1 ( carbon:nitratehosphate) and ended up with almost no nitrate and high phosphate.I recently switch to redsea coral pro salt because I am tired of testing a lot of parameters with my reef crystals and just want consistent calcium, mg and alkalinity. I am still a noob when come to reefing, but I have killed a lot of corals so that's gotta count right.

 

[DerekG4]

Tomorrow I'm gonna pass by my LFS to test the water since my kit is expired by 2 years.

On a different topic, does anyone know if Anthias are aggressive? About 2 weeks ago, I bought a Pink Square Anthias (He's very shy, tends to hide but he's peaceful. I don't know how he's still alive and fat, he hasn't eaten since I bought him) and a Silver Streak (I believe that's the name) Anthias that's been trying to bite any fish that gets too close to him. Doesn't appear to hurt any of the fish but it does get them a bit scared whenever he tries.

 

[Mark9]

On a different topic, does anyone know if Anthias are aggressive?

My Lyretail can be a real dick sometimes, so yes.

 

[DerekG4]

Alrighty, tested the water at the LFS yesterday.

Alk is at 8, didn't say how much exactly were the phosphates but she said they were low (But she did say even for it being a low amount, it's on the border of being medium) Calcium is 380 (Which my dad denies it being that low knowing he put a lot of calcium just 2 days ago, so with the expired test kits we have he wants to test it to see what they say) Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites are at 0. Couldn't check the Salinity because her refractometer broke, luckily I have my own anyway. I'll check it in a bit.

On another different topic, I recently bought a tiny neon goby. (Wasn't even an inch long) is it possible a medium sized (4.3 inches long) Anthias could eat one? He's my biggest suspect since all I have is a wrasse, blenny, royal gramma ,and 3 small tangs and he's the only one being aggressive. On the first day he hid but just on the second day he was completely out in the open but on the 3rd day to now, he hasn't come out.

 

[Patwa]

Stop using your skimmer or over feed your fish a bit. I have seen many tanks be too clean to support LPS. As our tanks mature they become more efficient at getting rid of nitrates and phosphates. So if you are doing anything to export them stop doing it.

there is so much wrong with this post....I don't even know where to start.

Super weird advice. Too clean? Pretty unlikely when he has hair algae and what sounds like cyano growing in the tank. I would go the opposite direction if I had to randomly guess and say that the nutrient levels are too high. Yes, that would probably cause the SPS to do poorly as well, but most people without any carbon dosing have too much nutrient rather than too little.

The other comment that states that our tanks become better at removing Phos an nitrate as they mature is whacky. Tanks accumulate these nutrients over time, I think we all wish tanks were more able to neutralize phos and nitrate over time.

OP, what are your Phosphate and Nitrate levels? If you are going to ask questions about your tank, it is always good to list your accurate Ca, Alk, Phos and Nitrate levels. Without that info, all we can do is guess. My apologies if I missed it, but I don't think you mentioned the actual value of 3 out of 4 of those paramaters

+1,000,000

If the LPS and leathers/softies are doing fine but the SPS are not then the water is too dirty. If the SPS is doing great and the others are not then it's too clean. It's a hard balance to have all three types of corals in the same tank in regards to water quality.

Again, there's so much wrong in this post.

And it's not a hard balance to strike to have all the types of corals (softie, LPS, SPS) in one tank, thriving. I've run successful mixed tanks from day one - from my very first tank in 2002. My current tank is softie dominant, but has everything under the sun in it. All doing well. I take a VERY minimal approach to reef husbandry...no silly computers, controllers and what not. My skimmer is a beast, though. I dose only when I remember (works out to about once a week), and I can't remember the last time i did a water change (maybe a month ago...)

Alrighty, tested the water at the LFS yesterday.

Alk is at 8, didn't say how much exactly were the phosphates but she said they were low (But she did say even for it being a low amount, it's on the border of being medium) Calcium is 380 (Which my dad denies it being that low knowing he put a lot of calcium just 2 days ago, so with the expired test kits we have he wants to test it to see what they say) Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites are at 0. Couldn't check the Salinity because her refractometer broke, luckily I have my own anyway. I'll check it in a bit.

If it hasn't been mentioned already, run carbon (max of 3 days then stop), do a water change. And cross-check the water params you got at the LFS by getting some newer kits and/or checking at a different LPS.

Low calcium is a suspect. When your dad doses calcium, how does he do it? Any amount of added calc causes a proportionate change (ie. drop!) in alk. Also, what is your magnesium level at?? magnesium is the element that allows the animal to properly uptake the calc and build a robust, strong skeleton, as well as helps to regulate the alk in the water column.

You can view magnesium as the "glue" for calcium and alkalinity to work properly, in tandem.

Due to an oversight a few months back, I was seeing a lot of my acans (LPS) receding. It was primarily due to an imbalance (major drop) in my cal/alk/mag.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

So I see that you're quite opinionated of your way or the highway mantra, Actually you seem to be too closed minded to actually "see" what I was talking about. Luckily others can open their eyes and consider a different view of their opinion, and see it from a different angle without actually "dosing" something to fix something else that was being dosed for a different problem. So dose away with even more chemicals to "fix" what is easily done without chemicals. Hope you are having a Happy Thanksgiving! :thumbsup:

 

[Patwa]

As is obvious to anyone with a heartbeat: experience speaks volumes.

We're a collective here in this reef world. More so, what i'm deficient in understanding or explaining is ultimately cleared up by experienced reefers like wakesetter, cloak or tweaked, etc...and so the chain of help and advice continues. Your advice, while well-intentioned, completely mis-leads the OP and does not take into account the more obvious and basic reasons why his LPS corals are likely suffering.

I'm not sure what i'm not "seeing" in your posts. What you posted reads clear as day to me and to many others, I assure you. Heck, I see your posts SO OFTEN....4,500 posts in 8 months is hard to not notice. I would hazard to say a good percentage of your posts are anecdotal more than they are critical or truly helpful. I would suggest quality over quantity going forward......but i'm no "Poster Police", so take it as a suggestion, face value.

It's funny to note the way you refer to my comment about the OP double-checking his calc-alk-mag levels. The way your refer to them as simple "chemicals" underscores (to me, at least) how little you truly understand how important those params are. They are the building blocks of a healthy reef - is those are off, it doesn't matter how clean or dirty your water is - your corals will suffer and ultimately die.

anyhoo...we had our thanksgiving back in October (i'm Canadian), but enjoy yours! I gotta work!

z

 

[C.Eymann]

On board with run carbon and do a w/c.
OP-is there anyway the tank could have become contaminated with a harsh chemical? Cleaners ? Airfreashner? Overspray? Not rising hands off well enough before working in the tank?

 

[Dkuhlmann]

As is obvious to anyone with a heartbeat: experience speaks volumes.

We're a collective here in this reef world. More so, what i'm deficient in understanding or explaining is ultimately cleared up by experienced reefers like wakesetter, cloak or tweaked, etc...and so the chain of help and advice continues. Your advice, while well-intentioned, completely mis-leads the OP and does not take into account the more obvious and basic reasons why his LPS corals are likely suffering.

I'm not sure what i'm not "seeing" in your posts. What you posted reads clear as day to me and to many others, I assure you. Heck, I see your posts SO OFTEN....4,500 posts in 8 months is hard to not notice. I would hazard to say a good percentage of your posts are anecdotal more than they are critical or truly helpful. I would suggest quality over quantity going forward......but i'm no "Poster Police", so take it as a suggestion, face value.

It's funny to note the way you refer to my comment about the OP double-checking his calc-alk-mag levels. The way your refer to them as simple "chemicals" underscores (to me, at least) how little you truly understand how important those params are. They are the building blocks of a healthy reef - is those are off, it doesn't matter how clean or dirty your water is - your corals will suffer and ultimately die.

anyhoo...we had our thanksgiving back in October (i'm Canadian), but enjoy yours! I gotta work!

z

Actually I'm laid up from back surgery and am going to more than likely have to get another one because I can't walk without excruciating pain. Most of my posts are to actually help people as I do care to help and share the knowledge that I've acquired in owning a few tanks both FOWLR and reef's and have collectively over 10 years in the hobby.

Oh I do understand what the chemicals do and what they are sometimes needed for the Parameters, yes I certainly do. But again you are completely missing what my comment was about and why.

You know what's sad? Brand new people coming into this hobby and dosing their tanks with many different chemicals not knowing what they are doing and their tanks haven't even been cycled yet. Then there are others that are dosing and don't need to because they don't have anything in their tanks that use what they are adding and want to know why it's so high of readings. Most of them that are dosing don't need to as long as they do a weekly or every two week wc's.

Look I'm not here to argue with you nor am I here to have you try and bash me when you don't agree with some of the methods I use or advice I give to others.

What you need to do is stop assuming things as you have no clue about what you are talking about. My having 4500 or more posts just shows that I've got nothing to do accept be here 24/7 and you can bet that if I wasn't in the pain that I'm in I would be doing what I've most enjoyed, walleye fishing. I'm in too much pain to go fishing and can't walk for any distance so my hunting season is out too. I'm also a wonderful Chef and love cooking Cajun and Creole foods, but I can't stand up long enough to cook.

 

[Mark9]

Don't sweat it Dkuhlmann, you'll find threads are generally fun until Patwa's ego makes an appearance.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Yeah I know his type, and never let them bother me. I am still shaking my head laughing at the group of guy's he has put himself with. :lmao:

Even his avatar is aggravating :lmao: