Corals loosing color

emixa

New member
So as I gladly creep this site and others, I enjoy the sight of coral color and growth. I long wish to have a tank grow-out like the many I see here. I have faced a problem recently and lost. I have questions that folks are not interested in answering or I cannot find a clear idea of what to do next. I am hoping that the experienced folks here might lend some advice or point me to the right thread to address these issue.

The history:
I am running a 90 gal tank with a +/- 20 gal sump. I would say with rock displacement etc...90 gal volume. It's been running since 1997 with a move in there. Up until recently, I was all about the gadgets that would make things easy. A year ago, I started concentrating on stability (which has brought some gains).

The Tank:
Lighting: (2) 250w 20k Radiums (changed mid October) pendants using (2) M80 Ballasts. (2) Actinic T5 DIY for supplement.

Sump (and contents):

R30 Sump, Lifereef Skimmer, Bubble Magus BM 130 Biopellet Reactor, Phosban running GFO, Mag 9.5 return pump, Geo 520 CaRx w/Planet Aquarium regulator

Fish: I used to have a variety, but thanks to the local power company, I was victim to an all-day power outrage. Did I have access to a generator; yes. Thanks to the continuous lies about that the power returning, my tank suffered a 24 hour outage which killed off 85% of my fish inhabitants.

Now: (2) clowns, A rabbit fish, Yellow Tang, Cardinal Butterfly, Purple Princess Anthia, Ancillaries Angel.

Tank has a couple of LPS but mainly surviving or dying SPS.

Params:

As of Sunday (return home from vacay)

Alk: 6.7 Normally steady at 8.3
Calcium: 475-500
Mag: 1480 - 1510
Phos: .09 (normally .04 - .06)
Nitrate: 50ppm (normally 10)
Salinity: 1.025 - 1.026

SO knowing that something happened which made my Alk, N and P fluctuate, my issue has been slowly creeping up.

Husbandry:

Weekly 10 gallon water changes, using Tropic Marin Pro Salt, sometimes slips to every other week. I make my own RODI water.


Fast Forward to Issue:

Circa April 2017, I noticed that while my N & P read low levels with up-to date test kits (Salifert and Hanna), I still had an issue with Hair Algae and starting to develop Bubble algae. I also noticed that the colors of some SPS were not where I wanted them to be.

Test 1: Upon the advice of one hobbyist; I tried dosing the stump remover remedy. While it raised my Nitrate, did nothing for my Phos. I increased feeding to fish and adding things like Phyto-feast or Oyster-feast. I even started spot feeding with Reef Chilli. Was told that increasing the levels of my N&P would slowly clear out my HA problem. Was also told to turn off my skimmer to every other day. Made this happen with the use of the great Apex.

Result: nothing really changed, and I think (again my opinion only after 3 months trial) this probably works better for heavily stocked and established SPS tanks.

Test 2: Another successful hobbyist informed me that there are (2) different types of algae. While these test kits detect some Nitrates and Phos, something was still fueling the established hair algae and now noticeable BA. Next advice was to stop the stump remover recipe and incorporate Bio-pellets and GFO to address the HA issue. Was also told to start slow and ramp up. For my tank, I should always keep it under the suggested. To treat the Bubble algae, use Vibrant.

Result: I started the Bio-pellet reactor first, and noticed that my HA basically disappeared, and the skim-mate was basically disgusting. I guess that was a plus. Then I also noticed that my SPS were starting to truly color up (YES!). A couple of weeks later, I added the GFO Reactor and noticed that the skim-mate was even more disgusting (WOW). All was good and even started using Vibrant, which over a month, pretty much took care of the Bubble (Triple YES!). I was noticing that my Phos and Nitrates stated to register now. My N were 2.5 - 5 and Phos .04-.06.

Now a month or two has past and out of no-where, these beautiful corals are now pail and some have died.

In this time, I also decided to clean out my CaRx because it looked a bit silt-ish in there which caused a fluctuation in Alk; addressed. Then later, changed bulbs and did not raise to light to help acclimate lumen; addressed.

So, I understand that perhaps, all the things in between may have caused my params to fluctuate and therefore cause my corals to react, but I also developed some brownish (rust color) algae, which some thought was Dino. I seriously cannot remember the last time I got that since my tank build.

Questions and Concerns:

GFO: Can GFO go bad? The recent one I used came from a package I bought some years ago. I have had some say yes (which is what I figured to be the case, but hey, I will ask). Then I have had others say no. While the person who told me no is in the business to sell things, it makes no benefit for them to lie, unless they are not THAT knowledgeable about this product. So be it. I have a new container coming in.

Could the over use of GFO completely pull out the good stuff to the point that it effected my SPS. Before you get mad and say, Read the other threads; I have. While there are great reads and awesome replies, way too many pros and cons.

Bio-pellets and Reactors:

Bio-pellets: I read on here and other places (for shame) that many people use when needed. I know of people who will keep them on continuously as they feed heavily. I will say that I have an auto-feeder on my system, happy fish, happy corals. My fish get fed. Can the pellets themselves be doing more harm than good? I also read that a cause of Dino can come from the presence Silica in your water. Could this have come from the addition of Bio-pellets to my reactor? At one point, reading of Phos was at 10; therefore, add more pellets. Nothing changing, a couple of weeks later; BAM 50.

Reactor: So another thing I have seen on here is that the reactor itself should be making the media tumble. My BM 130 was doing this until about a few weeks ago. Now, a tumble here or there of a couple of pellets. Thoughts?

Hanna Checker: I have always wondered this question and never asked. Here goes: I have the Hanna Phosphate Low Reader. I notice that when I run a test the first time, the number is high. I run the test again, and the number drops. Then I can run the test again, ant the number will be different. So basically, I take an average or get a similar number and use that. Is it just my checker or does this happen to others?

RODI:

How often should you change the RO membrane?


Again, I seriously apologize for the ramble, but it appears I can't get a good answer and I completely drool over other people's tanks and to wish to get to a stable point.

Thanks for reading and having the patience.
 
Wow that's a lot of info and a lot of questions. I'll answer two and hope other people chime in on some of the others.
I change RO membrane based on my tds meter reading or every 6 months. I do check tds output every time I make water. If it's ever greater than 0 I change it. Otherwise I keep my last changed date written on a piece of tape on the ro unit and change twice a year.
Secondly,I know amazing reef keepers who love Hanna but I am not amazing and I do not love Hanna. I know a number is supposed to be better and more accurate than a color test but I've had the same inconsistency issues you describe too often. I use Red Sea tests now,they just work better for me.
 
Wow that's a lot of info and a lot of questions. I'll answer two and hope other people chime in on some of the others.

(Sigh) I know. I try to read different threads on here to get my info without bothering folks. I should have broken this thread into a few other threads.

Thanks for the input. I havent changed my RO Membrane in a while. I noticed that my TDS read some crazy number and wondered why. I read another article yesterday about pre-mature TDS / DI results. The answer was that the RO membrane was either going out or eventually going out. I havent changed that thing like i do my other filters. (Doah!) Mistake made, noted and will be addressed.

Thank you again for the advice.
 
Yes. A lot of info here and I’m not sure of the timeline but this paragraph makes see a red flag.. I think..

Result: I started the Bio-pellet reactor first, and noticed that my HA basically disappeared, and the skim-mate was basically disgusting. I guess that was a plus. Then I also noticed that my SPS were starting to truly color up (YES!). A couple of weeks later, I added the GFO Reactor and noticed that the skim-mate was even more disgusting (WOW). All was good and even started using Vibrant, which over a month, pretty much took care of the Bubble (Triple YES!). I was noticing that my Phos and Nitrates stated to register now. My N were 2.5 - 5 and Phos .04-.06.

Where were your n and p BEFORE you started biopellets?
Did you test nutrients after biopellets went in line and the ha died off?
If you were beginning to see positive results with coral health and reduced algea, why did you start the gfo..
And then the Vibrant?
Based on your statement that biopellets made the ha go away, I assume it was because nutrients were dropping..
Any the end of this paragraph you state that n and p were starting to register again.. this sounds backwards to me..
Your thoughts, comments on above?

Personally I don’t really think gfo can go bad.. it’s just ferric oxide. The wet versions may not be as absorbent if they dry out over time but I’m not sure how they could cause damage if rinsed well before using..

I have never in 10 years ever gotten consistent results from a Hanna egg. You did it right by taking the average of several test, for sure.
As for membrane, if your prefilters are changed regularly, iandmit is running at optimal pressure 60-100psi is good AND gets properly shut off , it should last a couple years..
Certainly, having a tds meter right after the membrane is a great way to keep on top of it..

Seems to me, too many things went on in your tank to really come up with a reason for your issues..
Ultimately, I believe you hit your tank too hard with to much product..
 
Where were your n and p BEFORE you started biopellets?
Did you test nutrients after biopellets went in line and the ha died off?
If you were beginning to see positive results with coral health and reduced algea, why did you start the gfo..
And then the Vibrant?
Based on your statement that biopellets made the ha go away, I assume it was because nutrients were dropping..
Any the end of this paragraph you state that n and p were starting to register again.. this sounds backwards to me..
Your thoughts, comments on above?

Personally I don't really think gfo can go bad.. it's just ferric oxide. The wet versions may not be as absorbent if they dry out over time but I'm not sure how they could cause damage if rinsed well before using..

I have never in 10 years ever gotten consistent results from a Hanna egg. You did it right by taking the average of several test, for sure.
As for membrane, if your prefilters are changed regularly, iandmit is running at optimal pressure 60-100psi is good AND gets properly shut off , it should last a couple years..
Certainly, having a tds meter right after the membrane is a great way to keep on top of it..

Seems to me, too many things went on in your tank to really come up with a reason for your issues..
Ultimately, I believe you hit your tank too hard with to much product..

Matt,

Thank you for your feedback. I will answer below on each section.


First Statement: Where were your n and p BEFORE you started biopellets? My Nitrates would register 0 to 1. My Phos would register .01 on the Hanna egg but 0 on my Salifert. In the eyes of many people, these levels are optimal. I still had a huge issue with HA in my overflow column and in my fuge section in my sump. I would try to adjust things like my tank pH with chaeto, but within a week or two, the HA would over take the ball and turn it into a pancake rug. I was literally spending every week pulling HA out of my tank somewhere. So when I posted my parameters, people could not believe that my parameters read what they read. I went to various LFS to test. These were not like your Petsmart etc. These were stores that specialize in SPS. They read the same.
Second Statement:Did you test nutrients after biopellets went in line and the ha died off? Yes I did. With the same test kit, I started to see levels rise or register in my water. Not sure why, but I did the same procedure all the time.

Third Statement: If you were beginning to see positive results with coral health and reduced algea, why did you start the gfo.. So the person who gave me the initial advice, thought that this would help further. Since the Biopellets were to address the Nitrate issue and the GFO was supposed to address the phosphate issue to stop the HA over all. I was advised to use both at the same time. The delay was because I hadn't found my GFO yet.
Forth Statement: And then the Vibrant? The Vibrant was to address the Bubble Algae, which it truly did. I was advised to stop when I did not see any signs of BA, which I did. So it is no longer being used until I see more BA.
Fifth Statement: Based on your statement that biopellets made the ha go away, I assume it was because nutrients were dropping..Any the end of this paragraph you state that n and p were starting to register again.. this sounds backwards to me.. So again, I totally agree with you. The hobby trend is to get the values of N03 & P04 down to virtually 0 or super low values. Then I have been reading from different hobbyists and articles where you want to keep you values in an optimal place in order to increase growth and coral, for instance N03 3 "“ 5 and P04 .03 - .10 (I believe). Then I read on different articles that there are different types of P04 that are in your aquaria that test read. Again, this is all from articles I had come across.
Sixth Statement: You did it right by taking the average of several test, for sure. As for membrane, if your prefilters are changed regularly, iandmit is running at optimal pressure 60-100psi is good AND gets properly shut off , it should last a couple years..Certainly, having a tds meter right after the membrane is a great way to keep on top of it.. So I am like yourself. When I am running my RO/DI I pay attention to the psi as a first indicator. I have a triple in-line reader which registers the input, output after the RO membrane, and the output of the DI. So, for some time, I have posed the question; do those indicators ever need to be calibrated? I mean after a do not particles ever get stuck or mess with those indicators? I bought a handheld TDS reader for redundancy. When I tested my water from my fresh water batch, I can verify that my hand tester reads something else.

Seventh Statement: Seems to me, too many things went on in your tank to really come up with a reason for your issues. Ultimately, I believe you hit your tank too hard with too much product.. I have to agree with you about that. As of today, I have taken the Biopellet and GFO reactor off-line. I am staying with my week to every other week water change. I might do more volume. I will see where this gets me.

Thanks again for the feedback.
 
Thanks, that clarified a lot.
So basically your system was in a cycle where all the algea was stripping the tank of nutrients and you were told to use product to outcompete the algea.. ok. A reasonable assumption..
what is your clean up crew like?
Do you have any of:
Snails
Urchins
Hermits
Sea hare
Blennies
Tangs
My feeling is that when you have a system that is totally skewed to algea, it is very difficult to rob the tank further of nutrients by using product. Usually the corals are the biggest loser.
I feel a better way to battle this issue is by getting every possible algea eater you can find to consume the algea..
This (hopefully) gets the nuisance algea under control and at the same time, puts the nutrients that were previously locked up by the algae, back into the water column. This gives nutrition to the corals, gives you a better idea of your true nutrient situation and may allow a macro algea like cheato the ability to take hold in the system and begin to absorb some of the newfound nutrients..
Always sounds good in theory! But if this were my system, I would remove all product (as you say you have) hit it as hard as possible with natural algea consumers and then maybe begin with some gfo and if needed a carbon source but only after trying to get cheato to establish itself..
Please let us know how you proceed and what happens.. very curious!
 
what is your clean up crew like?
Do you have any of:
Snails
Urchins
Hermits
Sea hare
Blennies
Tangs

Please let us know how you proceed and what happens.. very curious!

Matt,

To answer your question about the fish crew, presently, I have a few snails and I havent seen any of my hermits or Nassarius Snails. I probably need to replenish the tanks as needed. I see alot of empty shells though. I tried to shy away from urchins as I know that they are know for eating the coraline and misplacing the planted sticks. I do not have any blennies.

Now prior: (say 4 months ago) I had the following:

Blue Hippo (4 inches), Scopas Tang (4 inches), Red Flame Hawk, Potters Angel, Coral Beauty, Midas Blenny, (2) different Clowns, Blue Eye Cardinal, Rabbit Fish

I had an issue with some Cyano and decided to run Chemiclean, which i have used in past with no issues. On the last day of cycling, I had a power failure in my neighborhood. No real reason as to why, just did. We kept getting notifications that the power would return in an hour. Long story short, it was off for 22 hours. This had a negative affect on my tank. The only fish that survived were the (2) clowns and Rabbit Fish and a few Nassarious.

Present day Fish:

(2) clowns, Rabbit Fish, Yellow Tang, Pyramid Butterfly, Purple Anthia (Male) and I think a couple of females, Anncilarious Angel. I have a larger Turbo in the fuge area. I also have a few Astrea Snails.

I have been slowly trying to introduce more inhabitants.
 
Please let us know how you proceed and what happens.. very curious!

I forgot to say than you again for the advice. I was thinking of going back the basics. My issue was that I noticed that I started loosing my Chaeto to HA, which triggered my concern. I then went the route of following one hobbyist advice by feeding my tank recipes with hopes that the good algae would consume the bad algae triggering the HA outbreak. I guess in my tank, it didnt work as well. Then I went the route of introducing the reactor method, which probably resulted that all the bad algae was affected and the good nutrients were being stripped out as well. :headwallblue:

Back to the drawing board. In a way, I am tired of being the guy that puts effort into a tank that corals grow slower than others and at times feel defeated.
 
Lots of bad luck!
Sorry to hear..
Urchins will definitely eat some corraline but they are very efficient algea eaters/removers.
As are snails and sea hares.
I’d say your priority should be algea control over new fish..
Good luck!
 
I forgot to say than you again for the advice. I was thinking of going back the basics. My issue was that I noticed that I started loosing my Chaeto to HA, which triggered my concern. I then went the route of following one hobbyist advice by feeding my tank recipes with hopes that the good algae would consume the bad algae triggering the HA outbreak. I guess in my tank, it didnt work as well. Then I went the route of introducing the reactor method, which probably resulted that all the bad algae was affected and the good nutrients were being stripped out as well. :headwallblue:

Back to the drawing board. In a way, I am tired of being the guy that puts effort into a tank that corals grow slower than others and at times feel defeated.

Yeah the setbacks are so demoralizing! They make you want to give up.
I hope your new simplified methods works better!
 
Good day. So as mentioned before, thanks again for all the folks who stopped to read this thread and especially to those who commented. Just to post this out there, I had sent an email out to an on-line supplier. I thought that I would share for the purpose to help folks out there. I find that over and over again; what may work for one person's tank may not work for others. I can not validate, nor will I discredit their advice. I will say that at times, too much filtration can have negative results. Such a funny hobby.

"Hey there,
Thanks for getting in touch with us in regards to this application. Using GFO and bio-pellets together will make major issues in your tank. The goal of bio-pellets is to use bacteria that colonize the pellets and eat phosphates from the water column. GFO is positive charged and pulls negatively charged phosphate to itself stripping the water clean. When you use these two things together the GFO will strip the water and stave the bio-pellets which will kill the bacteria and dirty the water column. You will need to decide on which one you prefer to use. If this is a medium bio-load system, I would use bio-pellets. If this tank is heavily fed and has phosphate issues, I would use GFO. Please let me know if there is anything else that we can assist with. Thanks!"


Again, I thought that this was pretty helpful to me and would like to just share.
 
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