Corals suddenly dieing! help pls

[zachfishman]

As of last week my LPS corals (frogspawn and candy cane) weren't looking so hot. Over the last couple days their tissue has begun to dramatically recede (see pics). In addition, my zoas are very pinched and somewhat bleached. Other than that my SPS (Monti digis and birdsnest) and softies (GSP and rics) are dong fine. The candycane I will lose by tomorrow (looks twice as bad this morning as it's pic below - taken yesterday). What could be going on?

Tank params:
NH4, NO3, PO4: zero
salinity: 35ppt (hydrometer, verified with refractometer)
temp: 78-80F (probe and glass therm)
pH: 8.0 - 8.2 (daily swing)
KH: 8
Ca: 400ppm
no Mg test yet - but I do 5% WC nearly weekly

Frogspawn tissue recession:


Dieing candy cane (aware of the bit of GHA, but don't want to scrub so close to tissue):

 

[smtank]

It is dino?

 

[zachfishman]

It is dino?

I might have a little dino growing in the system (my sand bed is a little brown), but nothing on the corals themselves. I've had dinos in the past in other tanks and it didn't negatively affected corals.

 

[zachfishman]

For reference here's some old shots of the candy and frogspawn. The frogspawn only looked this good a couple days, then the tentacles just expanded less and less as time went on (related?).

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zachostroff/5023669157/" title="IMG_1602 by zachfishman, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5023669157_b8796e99d8.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="IMG_1602" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zachostroff/5045531572/" title="IMG_1614 by zachfishman, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/5045531572_acc212f825.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="IMG_1614" /></a>

 

[greech]

What kind of lighting and flow are these under?

Neither particualrly care for high flow and will in fact retract under too high of flow.

Also, don't think that is GHA on the CC. Looks more like some sort of turf alage (don't think that is the cause, just wanted to mention).

The only other thing I see is that you used a good size glob of epoxy to adhere those pieces. What kind of puddy did you use? This stuff gets warm/hot while it cures underwater so that could be a possibility.

What's the timeline on the decline of these corals?

The FS doesn't look too bad. If it's in direct flow put it lower down and try and shelter it a bit. Thinking you will see it expand.

 

[zachfishman]

What kind of lighting and flow are these under?

Neither particualrly care for high flow and will in fact retract under too high of flow.

Also, don't think that is GHA on the CC. Looks more like some sort of turf alage (don't think that is the cause, just wanted to mention).

The only other thing I see is that you used a good size glob of epoxy to adhere those pieces. What kind of puddy did you use? This stuff gets warm/hot while it cures underwater so that could be a possibility.

What's the timeline on the decline of these corals?

The FS doesn't look too bad. If it's in direct flow put it lower down and try and shelter it a bit. Thinking you will see it expand.

Both corals are in indirect, gentler flow. The tank (standard 29) is lit by 2x65w PC, not that intense.

I used a "reef-safe" epoxy putty from my LFS (don't know the brand off hand). Either way, that was months ago. The pics of the corals in "good" condition were taken about two months ago. They started looking pretty bad this weekend (though the FS hadn't been expanding much since I bought it). All the tissue recession has been over the last 4-5 days, with the worst of it happening yesterday.

 

[smtank]

If you have had dino than you know what it looks like. I will say that it did have a very bad effect on my corals, especially the LPS and the zoanthids.

Have you added any new corals or recently changes out the carbon?

 

[zachfishman]

If you have had dino than you know what it looks like. I will say that it did have a very bad effect on my corals, especially the LPS and the zoanthids.

Have you added any new corals or recently changes out the carbon?

By dino you mean dinoflagellates, right?

No new corals lately, carbon is about 2 weeks old. I did pull the GFO though; but hadn't introduced it recently enough to cause this sudden deterioration.

 

[smtank]

By dino you mean dinoflagellates, right?

No new corals lately, carbon is about 2 weeks old. I did pull the GFO though; but hadn't introduced it recently enough to cause this sudden deterioration.

Yes sorry dinoflagellates, early not enough coffee.

Another thing you might want to look for is a large polyclad worm, usually out at night.

Parameters look fine, no recent additions hmmm.

Is the candycane anywhere near the frogspawn?

I guess if no one can nail it down you might want to post a FTS.

Good luck.

 

[greech]

Ya, other than some sort of predator or a neighboring coral stinging these pieces, I'm at a loss. Maybe a coral dip is in order?

 

[Sk8r]

I'm suspecting the answer is in the water parameters. I'd do an immediate water change just because no other answer is evident, remove the gfo, run carbon, all those things you do to clean up what nobody can identify...
My parameters in my sig represent a tank that's done particularly well with lps. See if you can hit those...but most of all, crosscheck those test kits: test, take a sample to your lfs and request the same tests. If you have one test kit go bad (expire) and base all your other elements on that, it can be very bad very fast. I'm suspicious of your salinity---dunno how to read 35: I use the other scale; but those instruments are subject to mineralization-creep, and go bad. The other suspect is your calcium/alk/mg level, which will get a fast reaction out of those corals. Concentrate your investigation and correction on those 3 first, and the salinity. Get your test results confirmed by your lfs. The alk test is particularly prone to go bad.

 

[zachfishman]

I'm suspecting the answer is in the water parameters. I'd do an immediate water change just because no other answer is evident, remove the gfo, run carbon, all those things you do to clean up what nobody can identify...
My parameters in my sig represent a tank that's done particularly well with lps. See if you can hit those...but most of all, crosscheck those test kits: test, take a sample to your lfs and request the same tests. If you have one test kit go bad (expire) and base all your other elements on that, it can be very bad very fast. I'm suspicious of your salinity---dunno how to read 35: I use the other scale; but those instruments are subject to mineralization-creep, and go bad. The other suspect is your calcium/alk/mg level, which will get a fast reaction out of those corals. Concentrate your investigation and correction on those 3 first, and the salinity. Get your test results confirmed by your lfs. The alk test is particularly prone to go bad.

All good recs, all done a couple days ago (except the Mg, will know this weekend). I just did a 20% WC last night, and took my water to the LFS for corroboration - all similar readings (couldn't get my Mg though, they were out of tests). 35ppt salinity ≈ 1.025/.026 SG. I did pull the GFO in case that was an irritant, and will change the carbon today. These corals have no neighbors to sting them; nor are there any other corals that produce sweepers in the DT.

The timing is unfortunate, as I'm flying out today for Thanksgiving weekend and won't be back to check on these guys until Sunday.

FWIW I also ordered a multimeter to test for stray electrical current.

 

[saltygeek]

Wow that odd that your SPS are fine and LPS having issues. I would think that water quality wouldnt be the issue then. Is the clown goby sitting on them more than normal?

 

[RRaider]

How old is this tank? The rocks look fairly new.

 

[jc-reef]

Your Mg could be the culprit....I'm curious what you find. You also may be low with Iodine. I recently dosed some Iodide (potassium iodide)[not toxic like idodine] and my LPS all have really responded nicely....in fact the very next day I noticed a big difference! I thought that with bi-weekly WC's that element would be replenished....apparently not.

Just a thought.

 

[zachfishman]

Sorry it took me a bit to respond, was in airports much of yesterday. The candy is dead, FS looked mildly better yesterday after that WC.

Wow that odd that your SPS are fine and LPS having issues. I would think that water quality wouldnt be the issue then. Is the clown goby sitting on them more than normal?

Odd I agree, although my pink Monti digi is a little pale and not growing as well as it used to. The goby hasn't been hosting all that much, nothing corresponding to the decline in coral health.

How old is this tank? The rocks look fairly new.

Tank is almost 5 months old.

Your Mg could be the culprit....I'm curious what you find. You also may be low with Iodine. I recently dosed some Iodide (potassium iodide)[not toxic like idodine] and my LPS all have really responded nicely....in fact the very next day I noticed a big difference! I thought that with bi-weekly WC's that element would be replenished....apparently not.

Will definitely see about the Mg soon, though I suspect that it isn't too low with the weekly WC and all (unless my IO mix is deficient). Interesting about the iodide, I'll keep it in mind if nothing else seems to work.

 

[wrott]

The first thing I would have done is a series of 50% WCs until corals started to look better. You could have have done 2-3 in one day. I'm sure it's the water, test kits are useless in this type of situation.

 

[zachfishman]

The first thing I would have done is a series of 50% WCs until corals started to look better. You could have have done 2-3 in one day. I'm sure it's the water, test kits are useless in this type of situation.

Any theories as to what could possibly be in the water? No one cleans in the apt so it shouldn't be any rogue lysol spray, etc. Also, the decline in these corals has been more of a long, gradual process over many weeks (where there have been as many water changes) - finally reaching some tipping point that did in the candy coral.

I am hoping that it's either too low Mg (doubt it), stray electrical current (would be a lovely, easy fix), or maybe inadequate iodide as jc-reef recs. If things look awful when I get back there will be a big WC, I assure you

 

[wrott]

Yeah, I don't know of any specific contaminant that causes these kinds of reactions in certain invertebrates. But in my recent experience, I had 2 out of 5 BTA that kept looking worse and worse over a 7 day period, and FS and 3 other BTA were fine. I tested w/ all "normal" results. So I did a 70% WC and w/in 1 hr all of the BTA were out and happy looking. I had just done a usual 50% WC 2 weeks previous.
I really can't imagine what was causing just these 2 anems to decline in health, so IMO when in doubt--do massive WCs.
I hope everything else pulls through OK, Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[zachfishman]

Update: got back home today, everything is bleaching - everything (even the GSP!). I guess it's reassuring to know that it is a tank-wide affliction and not something LPS specific. Now that I think of it, this did in fact begin the same time the candy began to seriously decline.

It isn't temp, so I'm going with mis-measured salinity as the culprit. I'll grab a refractometer tomorrow and do a big WC as wrott suggested. Then I'll report back.