countdown timer for pump
- Thread starter mcurl98
- Start date
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Guys...
They make these timers with NO and NC contacts (SPDT and DPDT style)... you don't have to mod anything. You simply hook the pump to the normally closed contacts.
The other option is to use a simple 120V relay connected to the timer. No mods and much more reliable than trying to reconfigure the guts of a timer.
Nice job taking the thing apart and modding it... but like I said, they make these thing with double pole contacts just for applications such as this.
Squiddy... the NEC and CEC are similar in many aspects but also differ greaty in some areas.
Wire colors are somewhat universal in nature... at least now. This is more the case now than it was 20 years ago. Europe and the UK had some funky colors but have since changed the codes. Other places around the world vary greatly. Third World and the middle east have no real standard... the colors can be anything that was available.
FWIW The NEC only dictates TWO colors.
GREEN is ALWAYS EQUIPMENT GROUND
WHITE is ALWAYS NEUTRAL
Unground conductors can be ANY COLOR other than GREEN OR WHITE. Though WHITE can be used for ungrounded current carrying conductors as long as it is CLEARLY MAKRED at each junction and in each box it passes through.
Local codes may have color requirements...
In any case...
USA: 120V/208V
Phase 1: Black
Phase 2: Red
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: White
Ground: Green or Bare
Canada: 120V/208V
Phase 1: Red
Phase 2: Black
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: White
Ground: Green
North America: 277V/480V
Phase 1: Brown
Phase 2: Orange
Phase 3: Yellow
Neutral: Gray or White
Ground: Green
United Kingdom (old)
Phase 1: Red
Phase 2: Yellow (used to be WHITE!!!)
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: Black!!!!!
Ground: Green or Green/Yellow
UK New and EU:
Phase 1: Brown
Phase 2: Black
Phase 3: Grey
Neutral: Blue
Ground: Green/Yellow
EU previous to new code:
Phase 1: Black or Brown
Phase 2: Brown or Black
Phase 3: Black or Brwon
Neutral: Blue
Ground: Green/Yellow
South Africa:
Phase 1: Red
Phase 2: White
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green/Yellow
And of course don't forgett austrailia:
Phase 1: Any color but green/yellow black or light blue... mostly red!
Phase 2: White
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green/Yellow
Eurpope has BUS BAR Colors as follows:
Phase 1: YELLOW
Phase 2: GREEN
Phase 3: PURPLE
Always more than you wanted to know!
Bean
They make these timers with NO and NC contacts (SPDT and DPDT style)... you don't have to mod anything. You simply hook the pump to the normally closed contacts.
The other option is to use a simple 120V relay connected to the timer. No mods and much more reliable than trying to reconfigure the guts of a timer.
Nice job taking the thing apart and modding it... but like I said, they make these thing with double pole contacts just for applications such as this.
Squiddy... the NEC and CEC are similar in many aspects but also differ greaty in some areas.
Wire colors are somewhat universal in nature... at least now. This is more the case now than it was 20 years ago. Europe and the UK had some funky colors but have since changed the codes. Other places around the world vary greatly. Third World and the middle east have no real standard... the colors can be anything that was available.
FWIW The NEC only dictates TWO colors.
GREEN is ALWAYS EQUIPMENT GROUND
WHITE is ALWAYS NEUTRAL
Unground conductors can be ANY COLOR other than GREEN OR WHITE. Though WHITE can be used for ungrounded current carrying conductors as long as it is CLEARLY MAKRED at each junction and in each box it passes through.
Local codes may have color requirements...
In any case...
USA: 120V/208V
Phase 1: Black
Phase 2: Red
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: White
Ground: Green or Bare
Canada: 120V/208V
Phase 1: Red
Phase 2: Black
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: White
Ground: Green
North America: 277V/480V
Phase 1: Brown
Phase 2: Orange
Phase 3: Yellow
Neutral: Gray or White
Ground: Green
United Kingdom (old)
Phase 1: Red
Phase 2: Yellow (used to be WHITE!!!)
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: Black!!!!!
Ground: Green or Green/Yellow
UK New and EU:
Phase 1: Brown
Phase 2: Black
Phase 3: Grey
Neutral: Blue
Ground: Green/Yellow
EU previous to new code:
Phase 1: Black or Brown
Phase 2: Brown or Black
Phase 3: Black or Brwon
Neutral: Blue
Ground: Green/Yellow
South Africa:
Phase 1: Red
Phase 2: White
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green/Yellow
And of course don't forgett austrailia:
Phase 1: Any color but green/yellow black or light blue... mostly red!
Phase 2: White
Phase 3: Blue
Neutral: Black
Ground: Green/Yellow
Eurpope has BUS BAR Colors as follows:
Phase 1: YELLOW
Phase 2: GREEN
Phase 3: PURPLE
Always more than you wanted to know!
Bean
999sterling
New member
I've seen them for sale in my area in electrical contractor supply stores. But not any place like home depot or a store where a "regular" guy could get them.
In fact I still can't get them even though I know when to find them. They only sell wholesale to contractors. and since I was there on a telcom account, not an electricians account, they wouldn't even sell them to me.
It's probrably different in some other locations. But in my piece of the desert. That's the only place I've seen the NC timers.
In fact I still can't get them even though I know when to find them. They only sell wholesale to contractors. and since I was there on a telcom account, not an electricians account, they wouldn't even sell them to me.
It's probrably different in some other locations. But in my piece of the desert. That's the only place I've seen the NC timers.
brucem
New member
Making this mod is a bad idea. I bought the timer and made the mod but would not use it on my tank. When you modify the timer there is not very good contact and could melt the timer and then your pumps would be off for good or start a fire. They make the right timer as someone has said before. It will just be a little harder to get the right one. Thats just my opinion
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
NO! You do not EVER want to break the NEUTRAL and leave the HOT wire connected! Yes it will turn off the load, but the LOAD will still be HOT!
You ALWAYS place a switch on the HOT side of a residential 120V circuit! Doing otherwise may get somebody killed one day! You see most of us assume that when the switch turns the LOAD off, that no electricity is present at the LOADS terminals or internal parts.
You ALWAYS place a switch on the HOT side of a residential 120V circuit! Doing otherwise may get somebody killed one day! You see most of us assume that when the switch turns the LOAD off, that no electricity is present at the LOADS terminals or internal parts.
perpetual98
New member
Why don't you just buy the switch that does this automatically? I picked one up off of ebay. It can be wired either NO or NC
Hopeful Reefer
Premium Member
The thing people are not mentioning is if you use the timer that isn't double pole you need to modify the disc on the inside...
Once you take the top off, you have to seperate the middle from the bottom sections...there is a disc in there...flip it over...this keeps the contacts together in the "off" position...make note what part of the disc makes contact and them trim off the rest of the disc...when you turn the timer on, it breaks the contacts this way...
To wire it to an outlet...there are instructions with the timer but here is how you do it using normal Romex (house electrical wiring)...
Take your black (or other color hot wire) and wire it to the black wire on the back of the timing unit...then, take another black (or other color hot wire) and connect it to the blue wire on the back of the timing unit...run this wire to the hot wire contacts on the outlet in question...the red wire on the timing unit is not used and is simply capped off with a wire nut...your white (or other color neutral wire) and ground wires are not broken and both go straight to your outlet's neutral and ground contacts respectively...
Hope that helps...but, as Bean said go buy the double pole switch and you won't have to modify the switch...but if all you have is the switch in question, now you know how to modify it...
Once you take the top off, you have to seperate the middle from the bottom sections...there is a disc in there...flip it over...this keeps the contacts together in the "off" position...make note what part of the disc makes contact and them trim off the rest of the disc...when you turn the timer on, it breaks the contacts this way...
To wire it to an outlet...there are instructions with the timer but here is how you do it using normal Romex (house electrical wiring)...
Take your black (or other color hot wire) and wire it to the black wire on the back of the timing unit...then, take another black (or other color hot wire) and connect it to the blue wire on the back of the timing unit...run this wire to the hot wire contacts on the outlet in question...the red wire on the timing unit is not used and is simply capped off with a wire nut...your white (or other color neutral wire) and ground wires are not broken and both go straight to your outlet's neutral and ground contacts respectively...
Hope that helps...but, as Bean said go buy the double pole switch and you won't have to modify the switch...but if all you have is the switch in question, now you know how to modify it...
The only thing that I would worry about is you are using a contact for almost 100% duty that was probably made for about 20% or less. I would worry about the contacts either buring out or wearing down and getting hot and possibly causing a fire.
If it was me I would either use this one and a relay or get the one that has both types of contacts on it. I know that it is nice to be able to save some money but I do not know if it is worth it in this case.
At the very least I would check the contacts on a regular basis and see if there is any noticable wear or arcing on the contacts and then replace the timer if it looks questionable.
If it was me I would either use this one and a relay or get the one that has both types of contacts on it. I know that it is nice to be able to save some money but I do not know if it is worth it in this case.
At the very least I would check the contacts on a regular basis and see if there is any noticable wear or arcing on the contacts and then replace the timer if it looks questionable.
Hopeful Reefer
Premium Member
I need to correct my last post...too long has past to edit...
I was thinking 2 different timers that I wired yesterday when I posted my response... :lol:
The time in question has 2 contacts where you put the end of the wire in and screw a plate down on to it to secure it...you take the incoming end of your black (or other color hot wire) and secure it in the contact marked Load...take your other black (or other color hot wire) that goes to the outlet and secure it to the contact marked Line...the rest I posted about the neutral and ground wires remains the same...
marm64 - What is it that makes you wory about these contacts? The wires are secure and inside of an outlet box (they should be in the outlet box anyway) and the contacts inside the timer box are copper plates/arms...they are held in place under normal operation and then simply released when the timer is operated...if anything, I would think the spring mechanism inside the timer would go first...this would simply cause the timer to stay in the open position which would keep the outlet "off"...so, where is your worry?
I was thinking 2 different timers that I wired yesterday when I posted my response... :lol:
The time in question has 2 contacts where you put the end of the wire in and screw a plate down on to it to secure it...you take the incoming end of your black (or other color hot wire) and secure it in the contact marked Load...take your other black (or other color hot wire) that goes to the outlet and secure it to the contact marked Line...the rest I posted about the neutral and ground wires remains the same...
marm64 - What is it that makes you wory about these contacts? The wires are secure and inside of an outlet box (they should be in the outlet box anyway) and the contacts inside the timer box are copper plates/arms...they are held in place under normal operation and then simply released when the timer is operated...if anything, I would think the spring mechanism inside the timer would go first...this would simply cause the timer to stay in the open position which would keep the outlet "off"...so, where is your worry?
rick s
Premium Member
I haven't read all the responses in this thread. I did this years ago. Here is the old post in case it provides any additional info.
I wired an Intermatic brand, standard in-wall, spring wound, house timer in an electrical box. I used a good quality extension cord, cut one wire (hot leg) and ran it to the terminals on the timer, and then plugged my main pump into the end.
When I feed, I turn the dial on the timer to whatever time I want. The pump stops, and all my food stays in the main tank. After whatever time I set it to, it turns back on.
The beauty of it is I can never forget to turn it back on. The timer I bought also has a position that will keep it off indefinitely (called Hold), if I want to use it.
Make sure the timer you get has N.O. and N.C. contacts. Most timers turn things ON for a period of time. They use Normally Open (N.O. ) contacts. You want it to turn the pump OFF for a period of time. You want one that also has Normally Closed (N.C.) contacts.
“Normallyâ€Âmeans its normal, or rest, position (when the timer is not doing anything).
Normally Open means: In the “rest†position, the circuit is open (disconnected). No power goes through the timer.
Normally Closed means: In the “rest†position, the circuit is closed. The contacts are connected. Power is going through the timer to whatever is wired to it.
You want to run the wires to the N.C. terminals. I got mine from my local electrical supply store.
I used the Intermatic, model FF32HH (SPDT) timer. It has the HOLD feature. I chose a 2 hour timer because a simple 1/4 turn (one twist of the wrist) will turn it off for 30 minutes (rather than having to turn the knob twice). Wire it according to the “Reverse Action Switching†Directions.
The “FF†model has a brushed aluminum faceplate.
You can get an “FD†model. It has an ivory color faceplate and knob.
You can also get them with different maximum times (1 hour, 2 hour, 4 hour).
Hope this helps.
I wired an Intermatic brand, standard in-wall, spring wound, house timer in an electrical box. I used a good quality extension cord, cut one wire (hot leg) and ran it to the terminals on the timer, and then plugged my main pump into the end.
When I feed, I turn the dial on the timer to whatever time I want. The pump stops, and all my food stays in the main tank. After whatever time I set it to, it turns back on.
The beauty of it is I can never forget to turn it back on. The timer I bought also has a position that will keep it off indefinitely (called Hold), if I want to use it.
Make sure the timer you get has N.O. and N.C. contacts. Most timers turn things ON for a period of time. They use Normally Open (N.O. ) contacts. You want it to turn the pump OFF for a period of time. You want one that also has Normally Closed (N.C.) contacts.
“Normallyâ€Âmeans its normal, or rest, position (when the timer is not doing anything).
Normally Open means: In the “rest†position, the circuit is open (disconnected). No power goes through the timer.
Normally Closed means: In the “rest†position, the circuit is closed. The contacts are connected. Power is going through the timer to whatever is wired to it.
You want to run the wires to the N.C. terminals. I got mine from my local electrical supply store.
I used the Intermatic, model FF32HH (SPDT) timer. It has the HOLD feature. I chose a 2 hour timer because a simple 1/4 turn (one twist of the wrist) will turn it off for 30 minutes (rather than having to turn the knob twice). Wire it according to the “Reverse Action Switching†Directions.
The “FF†model has a brushed aluminum faceplate.
You can get an “FD†model. It has an ivory color faceplate and knob.
You can also get them with different maximum times (1 hour, 2 hour, 4 hour).
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
rick s
Premium Member
Here's another great idea by Randall James:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=967656&highlight=reverse
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=967656&highlight=reverse
What I would be worried about is you are using the contacts to run the pump all day except for when you turn the dial. These are made to only run when the dial is turned and the contacts might be light duty for intermittent use, I have not seen these to make any comment on the actual contacts, and this is what could cause problems and overheat or burnout.
I would check into the timer and see what info I could find from timer or off of the web to determine if you can run it continous or not.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
yup that is one of the models that has NO and NC contacts. You can even order them through HD or LOWES if your local electrical supply counter does not stock them.
dga
New member
as an alternate solution for a timer. i have a small powerhead (minijet 606) running on a true sine wave ups. this pump runs constant just for circulation, and is located toward the bottom of the tank pointing upwards. the other pumps, overflow, skimmer, and powerheads are controlled by the switch on the power strip. if i forget to turn them back on after feeding (which i do) i will always have circulation, and 24 hour auto backup as part of my backup system for that one powerhead...
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