couple of questions on Randy's 2 Part.

Paintbug

Paintbug

New member
i just picked up some Prestone Heat (calcium chloride right?). they didnt have any of the DOW flakes at the HD here. thats safe to use right?

now i dont have access to lab equipment, so how accurate does the measurments need to be? for example it says about 2 1/2 cups of calcium chloride per 1 gallon of water. now if i get alittle extra will it have ill effects on the tank? im just worried about crashing the tank :D
 
You will use about 20% less (by volume) of the prestone as compared to the dowflake.

No the measurements are not that critical. You will be close, and your solutions might not be exactly balanced, but testing your water paramaters will show if either ALK or CA is rising faster in relation to the other and you can compenstate slightly on your dosing amounts.

Nest time you make a batch you can adjust the amount you use slightly to fix the imbalance, so that you can dose even amounts without testing as frequently.

But as long as you start out by testing frequently, your not going to crash your tank. Worst case, if you were REALLY OFF, you may case a snow storm due to precipitation or something. Buth again, you would need to be WAY OFF.

Randy may have a better answer (he always does).
 
On the Randy's 2 parts. It's say 21/2 cup of dowflake in enough water to make one gallon total volume. Is that mean the total of dowflake and water are in one gallon container or one gallon of water + dowflake then mix together? Please advise.

Thanks
 
I use the Prestone. i did 2 cups per 1 gallon of water (distilled).

If I add 1 cup of the soolution to my 90 gallon, it raises CA by 30
example: Did water test. CA was 390. Added a cup of solution, and retested water 3 hours later. CA was 420.

Be carefull with the baking soda solution. I added 1 cup and it raised my tank from 7 to 10.
 
TAVA, Have you used the reef chemistry calculator? It would help you to determine how much you need to add, and if the solutions are doing what is expected.

There are ~236 ml in a cup.

Using the calculator with Randy's ALK recipe will tell you that you need:

190 ml to raise the DKH from 7 - 10 if you tank volume is 90 gallons. You added 236 ml but only got 10 dkh when you should have gained a little more than that. This means you have either made your ALK solution a bit weak, or you tank is has more than 90 gallons of water in it... OR your testing results are not 100% accurate. I would imagine it is a combination of all of the above.

Again, using the calculator, your numbers indicate that your CA solution is a bit on the weak side. You added 236ml but the calculator indicates you should have needed about 275ml to raise the calcium by 30.

I would imagine that you "added 2 cups per gallon" INSTEAD OF "adding 2 cups IN ENOUGH WATER to MAKE 1 GALLON total volume"

ALSO If you are using RO/DI for your tank, you may want to consider mixing your additives with RO/DI. There is no use going through all of the trouble to make clean water, just to add distilled to the tank once a day.

So all in all your results are exactly as expected, there is nothing to worry about.

I hope this helps, and if I made any mistakes Randy will surely correct them.
 
Beananimal.

Thanks!

You are correct. I added 2 cups TO a gallon of water.....

I have seen the calulator, but did not know that Randy's solution was a peramiter on the calculator.

Thanks agaon!
 
i just picked up some Prestone Heat (calcium chloride right?). they didnt have any of the DOW flakes at the HD here. thats safe to use right?

Yes. I have an improved recipe coming out in the February Reefkeeping magazine which also has expanded directions on what other brands might be OK, and improved dosing instructions, etc.

Here's the section on other brands of calcium chloride:



Substitutes for Dowflake Calcium Chloride

If Dowflake calcium chloride or a repackaged version (such as All-Clear) cannot be located, one may be able to substitute Peladow or Dow Mini-Pellets which are dehydrated versions of Dowflake (that is, they have less water in the crystals). In addition to the Peladow brand name, Peladow is also sold as Prestone Driveway Heat and possibly other common brands. Kent Turbo Calcium is also suitable and is an anhydrous calcium chloride. Any FCC (food), USP (pharmaceutical) or BP (pharmaceutical) grades of calcium chloride should be suitable.

Peladow, Dow mini-Pellets, Prestone Driveway Heat, Kent Turbo Calcium and other dehydrated calcium chloride products are more potent than Dowflake. The dehydration makes them both more potent on a weight basis, and more dense, so they are much more potent on a volume basis. The problem is that it is rarely clear how much moisture is in them. Peladow specifies 90% calcium chloride minimum, but it may be higher in some cases. Dow Mini-Pellets at 94% minimum, but actually has a lower bulk density than Peladow. The best guess of an amount to use is based on the hydration levels and bulk density provided by Dow for these products. Using these numbers, I suggest that aquarists use 20% less VOLUME of the dehydrated versions in the recipes than is called for in Dowflake. So a recipe calling for 5 cups of Dowflake would use 4 cups of Peladow, Prestone Driveway Heat, Kent Turbo Calcium, etc.

Choosing other unknown brands of any of the products may be fine, or not. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve not tested them for purity.
 
so Kent Turbo Calcium that is $15 for a 400g jar at the LFS, is basicly the same as the 9.5 lbs jug of Prestone Driveway Heat i bought for $9. im glad i didnt get the Kent yesterday.
 
I agree! I am going to buy a 50lb bag of Prestone before winter ends! Only $18.00 at Home Depot here in Buffalo! That should last me a lifetime!

Yo also can't go wrong when Arm and Hammer baking soda is only $0.50 for a 2 cup box.

Your the best Randy!! :)
 
so Kent Turbo Calcium that is $15 for a 400g jar at the LFS, is basicly the same as the 9.5 lbs jug of Prestone Driveway Heat i bought for $9. im glad i didnt get the Kent yesterday.

It is a very similar material, but probably has a different impurity profile. The Kent Liquid Calcium and Turbo Calcium were distinctly different than Dowflake, ESV, and Warner Marine products, which all looked the same to me in my impurity analysis:

Purity of Calcium Chloride
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/chem.htm
 
I have 2 questions about the receipe. First one, why does the baking soda need to be baked for 1 hour in one method but not the other? Since it'll need to be mixed with water later, I assume it is not done just to draw out the moisture.

And second one, I think I have read somewhere in your article that there are some concerns in regards to dosing Epsom salt into the aquaria, primarily due to sulfate buildup. Can I avoid this potential problem by using a commercial Magnesium product made by, say Seachem instead of Epsom salt? Since the solution will only need to be added once in a while, I figure it'll still be cost-efficient. If so, is there a way to calculate how much Mag I should mix to make a 1 gallon solution?

TIA
 
I am following along here and want to THANK YOU, Randy.
Obviously your time is very valuable and you give it to this forum and newbies like me, very cool.

Thanks again,

Kevin
 
Baking the baking soda drives off the water and CO2. From my understanding this makes more Na2CO3 available. If you don't bake the mix the equilibrium is different due to the CO2 still being present in the solution. Please note I pretty much failed chem.

IN any case SOLUTION 1 will raise or maintian PH and solution 2 will lower PH.

With regards to the EPSOM salts questions... I think some of this will be covered in the revised recipe that is coming out next month... again Randy will be much more help than me.
 
Driving out the CO2 raises the pH when added to the tank water. That is the reason for baking.

Can I avoid this potential problem by using a commercial Magnesium product made by, say Seachem instead of Epsom salt?

First, I do not recommend Seachem's magnesium product, since it is mostly just Epsom salts and provides no benefit over Epsom salts, IMO. ESV and Kent's products are better.

Second, the sulfate added in the Epsom salts is useful for offsetting the chloride that comes from the calcium chloride. Unfortunately, it overdose it a bit, as I show in the article. Water changes partially offset that sulfate build up. A mixture of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate is better, and I have given that improved recipe in this thread and an upcoming Reefkeeping article:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=742944&highlight=part
 
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well i mixed it all up last night and dosed this morning so far nothing has died :D i guess i got it right. only thing is i noticed when i dose b-ionic, the instructions say dose part 1 first(the alk buffer) which is part 2 in your recipe. does it matter which you dose first? i like dosing the alk part first so i can see the cloud disapear and know its time for the calc part.

i read the preview for next months article. i see the new recipe calls for magnesium chloride hexahydrate. i think i seen some ice melt at HD that was magnesium chloride. is that the same?

just wanted to tell you thanks for answering all these questions! i dont know if you know how greatful some of us are that you are here!!
 
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