Crypto?

[BaleKlocoon]

I think my Kole tang has crypto? It has white spots on his body, his fins, and he is constantly keeping his mouth open. Follow link for picture. I don't have a good way to quarantine. Is there a way I can treat this while keeping everybody in the display tank? I have 2 clowns, an Allen damsel, a blue chromis, a diamond goby, and 2 fairy wrasses, along with snails and hermits as a cleanup crew. No water parameters are out of the ordinary. Help!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ous1u1ryssy8ob/20180801_180854.jpg?dl=0

 

[Uncle99]

Ick CAN NOT be treated inside the DT.
All FISH must be QT or they will all die...Period.
Some buckets, Heaters, and some SW, to do TTM is all you need.
Also Hypo and Cupramine.....don't delay, nothing but these three work.

 

[BaleKlocoon]

Am I correct that you have to keep them quarantined for a month before the ich in the display tank starves and dies? So if it's buckets, there's no skimmer and no live rock/live sand for bacteria... So are we talking daily 50% water changes for a month to keep the ammonia at bay? Not sure I have that much dedication, and even if I did I'm not sure the gf would allow it. Any chance some of the fish don't get it?

 

[nereefpat]

I would sacrifice the snails and hermits and hypo the display.

 

[BaleKlocoon]

So... he's dead. I don't know what he had, but from what I've read ich normally takes a lot longer than this to kill fish. Last night when I got home was the first time I noticed anything different with him and this morning he's laying dead on the sand bed with a hermit crab eating him. So less than 12 hours from first noticing symptoms to death. Any idea what this was? All my other fish seem perfectly fine.

 

[shaginwagon13]

Ick CAN NOT be treated inside the DT.
All FISH must be QT or they will all die...Period.

Not entirely true.

I did hypo-salinity for 90 days on my entire system at the very beginning because I had ICH. I was lucky and didn't have any inverts so it was possible and my system was far too large to catch all my fish without breaking it all down which I absolutely did not want to do.





Off topic: Where about's in Ontario?

 

[Uncle99]

Brampton....and you?

 

[Uncle99]

So... he's dead. I don't know what he had, but from what I've read ich normally takes a lot longer than this to kill fish. Last night when I got home was the first time I noticed anything different with him and this morning he's laying dead on the sand bed with a hermit crab eating him. So less than 12 hours from first noticing symptoms to death. Any idea what this was? All my other fish seem perfectly fine.

Your description indicated Ick (I see the pic, but no fish), brook kills fast but doesn't look like Ick. Sorry to hear about your fish, tangs are Ick magnets. It's hard to treat anything you can't diagnos. If it was Ick, depends on how long in your DT, (maybe your lucky) but good chance it's in the DT multiplying. You should know within the next 7-15 days...good luck

BTW....if you have Ick in your DT, it must remain fishless for 72-76 days, unless you follow Hypo suggestion from Nereefpat.....I would agree in your situation...thus is best advice

 

[Uncle99]

I would sacrifice the snails and hermits and hypo the display.

I would have to agree, this is the best advice for the op, just not sure what diease in going on here..

 

[shaginwagon13]

I would have to agree, this is the best advice for the op, just not sure what diease in going on here..

+1

Hypo was super easy to do, I would do it again anytime without hesitation.

Brampton....and you?

Nice... I'm just south in Mississauga

 

[Uncle99]

Nice to meet you neighbor!

 

[shaginwagon13]

Nice to meet you neighbor!

:thumbsup:

 

[BaleKlocoon]

You guys can't see the fish in the picture? Weird. When I follow the Dropbox link I posted I see my tang in the middle of the picture.

 

[nereefpat]

I see it.

Hard to tell. It could be ich. If the onset and death were so quick, it could be flukes or velvet.

 

[shaginwagon13]

You guys can't see the fish in the picture? Weird. When I follow the Dropbox link I posted I see my tang in the middle of the picture.

I see it.... tbh looks like flukes or velvet but that's just my opinion from the large white area on its head; that could also be from his scratching against rocks. But then again, if the fish is still alive, then it most likely isn't velvet of flukes.

Its really hard to tell but its sick for sure. If you going to do hypo, drop the salinity as fast as you can to 1.008 the fish will be just fine. Lower salinity makes it far easier for fish to breathe which will provide some relief. Fish can drop salinity very quickly, its going back up again that should be done over a few days.

Note that your inverts will die if you do it on your main display, so your going to want to do a water change over the next few days to keep levels in check.

 

[BaleKlocoon]

I see it.... tbh looks like flukes or velvet but that's just my opinion from the large white area on its head; that could also be from his scratching against rocks. But then again, if the fish is still alive, then it most likely isn't velvet of flukes.

Its really hard to tell but its sick for sure. If you going to do hypo, drop the salinity as fast as you can to 1.008 the fish will be just fine. Lower salinity makes it far easier for fish to breathe which will provide some relief. Fish can drop salinity very quickly, its going back up again that should be done over a few days.

Note that your inverts will die if you do it on your main display, so your going to want to do a water change over the next few days to keep levels in check.

Fish was dead this morning, less than 12 hours after first noticing symptoms. All the other fish appear to be fine.... I assume there is no reason for me to do hypo and sacrifice my inverts/coral unless other fish start looking sick?

 

[shaginwagon13]

Fish was dead this morning, less than 12 hours after first noticing symptoms. All the other fish appear to be fine.... I assume there is no reason for me to do hypo and sacrifice my inverts/coral unless other fish start looking sick?

Ya flukes or velvet then.

Your tank is still infected if all your other fish were exposed. I'm not an expert at how to treat as I have never personally had it, but you should treat your system.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2578800

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2476170

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2475878

 

[BaleKlocoon]

I'm not sure I want to treat my tank without having any idea what I am treating. After reading symptoms of flukes and velvet, neither of those fits what I observed as far as the fish's behavior and appearance. My fish was showing signs of heavy breathing, which could be a sign of flukes or velvet, but none of the other symptoms applied. Not lethargic, not hiding, no lack of appetite (was going to town on seaweed and frozen food last night).

Flukes: clear and not visible without a freshwater dip. I could clearly see the white stuff on my fish.

Velvet: tiny white spots, much smaller than ich, that are perfectly round. These were not tiny or perfectly round.

It really fits the description of what I've read about ich more than it does velvet or flukes, but I'm not sure why the fish died so quickly if it was ich.

Even if it is one of these, I don't know which one and the treatment is very different. Hypo-salinity works for flukes, but not for velvet. I don't want to just take a wild guess and screw with my tank without having any idea what I'm treating. I think I'm just going to relax and hope my other fish don't get whatever this was and die. If they do then maybe I will have a clownfish and coral only tank.

 

[shaginwagon13]

I'm not sure I want to treat my tank without having any idea what I am treating. After reading symptoms of flukes and velvet, neither of those fits what I observed as far as the fish's behavior and appearance. My fish was showing signs of heavy breathing, which could be a sign of flukes or velvet, but none of the other symptoms applied. Not lethargic, not hiding, no lack of appetite (was going to town on seaweed and frozen food last night).

Flukes: clear and not visible without a freshwater dip. I could clearly see the white stuff on my fish.

Velvet: tiny white spots, much smaller than ich, that are perfectly round. These were not tiny or perfectly round.

It really fits the description of what I've read about ich more than it does velvet or flukes, but I'm not sure why the fish died so quickly if it was ich.

Even if it is one of these, I don't know which one and the treatment is very different. Hypo-salinity works for flukes, but not for velvet. I don't want to just take a wild guess and screw with my tank without having any idea what I'm treating. I think I'm just going to relax and hope my other fish don't get whatever this was and die. If they do then maybe I will have a clownfish and coral only tank.

Just monitor the tank and maybe feed a little more (not excessive) but more. Fish that are healthy tend to fight off disease better and have a far thicker slime coat.

They say that fish exposed to ICH that don't get sick build anti-bodies to it and its harder for the ICH to take hold later on. I really don't know if this is true, but some suggest that all the farm raised and fish farms is part of the reasons why some fish have such low immune systems compared to the live caught species. They simply are not exposed to as much, and their anti-bodies are far fewer. Sort of like teachers that are around kids all day.... after several years, they rarely ever get sick anymore.

 

[BaleKlocoon]

Just monitor the tank and maybe feed a little more (not excessive) but more. Fish that are healthy tend to fight off disease better and have a far thicker slime coat.

They say that fish exposed to ICH that don't get sick build anti-bodies to it and its harder for the ICH to take hold later on. I really don't know if this is true, but some suggest that all the farm raised and fish farms is part of the reasons why some fish have such low immune systems compared to the live caught species. They simply are not exposed to as much, and their anti-bodies are far fewer. Sort of like teachers that are around kids all day.... after several years, they rarely ever get sick anymore.

Ironically, my tang that died is the only live caught fish I have owned. All my fish that are captive bred are doing fine. I also read that all wild fish have the ich parasite but the immune system easily fights it off, but when these same fish are put in a confined space they can become stressed and makes it easier for the parasite to go to take over. Hopefully my other fish don't get it and I will just stay away from tangs. I've read they are among the more susceptible fish to ich, and I was pushing the limits putting the Kole Yellow Eye in my tank. Live Aquaria says 70 gallon minimum and I have a 90 gallon. But after you subtract the volume my sand, live rock, and overflow box take out, I'm probably at less than 70 gallons volume of water available for the fish to swim around in.

Thanks for the input guys.