Cryptocaryon (Ich)

[alexisomar21]

Hi I need some help really fast. I need anwser from people that has been for years in this hobby and have Experience working with this kind of disease, right now I have a Salfin with White dot in his fins. I don't have quarentine tank... I need help really fast I can't lose all my fish.

 

[ThRoewer]

If it's ich and the fish only has a few dots, you have easily 2 weeks to set up a hospital tank and start treatment.

If it is velvet you better get that HT set up and running by tomorrow.

Also, a QT is essential in this hobby or you will get tank wipe outs sooner or later.

 

[alexisomar21]

What do you recommend? How many gal have to be? And what Im going to need also as well?

 

[ThRoewer]

The size of your QT and how many you need depends on the size and quantity of your fish.

As a minimum I would get two 10 gallon tanks for smaller fish (up to 3 in) or two larger tanks if you plan on larger or very active fish. each tank will need a heater and a filter (powerhead with sponge or HOB). I personally also always add a small skimmer (most are just air operated), but that is optional.
Light should be enough to be able to see the fish and if they are sick or not, but it doesn't need to be anything special - a standard LED light bulb in a simple fixture will do fine for fish (it's a different story for a corral and invert QT)

On QT/HT I have 2x 5 gal, 4x 10 gal and one 20 long. Most of my fish are small, the largest being the regal angels that range from 2.75 to 3.75 in.

 

[cougareyes]

Not that simple, once you see the signs of ick on a fish, your entire system has been exposed. To simply remove the one fish showing signs does not eradicate the virus from the system. If its a fish only I would treat the entire tank, if it's a reef much more complicated.

 

[alexisomar21]

It is 125 Gallons reef tank I don't wanna to expose my Inverts and Live stock to copper that will wipe out my inverts and mess the live rock. The selfin is about 3 inch. I was thinking to set up a JBJ cube as qt But set it up will be around 600$. That's why I ask you cause also I have on mind doing a 20g qt that go for 35$ plus filtration, But my question is what do I need?

 

[cougareyes]

Cupramine will not destroy your live rock(biological filter) but you would have to remove any inverts or coral. The reason I say the tank has to be treated because if you don't treat the tank, it will have to stay fallow with no fish for a minimum of 6 to 9 weeks(depending on who you agree with) for the ick to be gone from your tank. Many people remove an infected fish to treat and find other fish or the same fish to be infected over again. I would either remove all fish to another tank to treat, or remove my inverts and coral to another tank and treat the infected tank.

 

[alexisomar21]

So cougareyes you mean that the cupramine will not kill nothing after I treat the tank, I guest I won't lose any coral or inverts?
The live rock won't be affected?

 

[Martini5788]

So cougareyes you mean that the cupramine will not kill nothing after I treat the tank, I guest I won't lose any coral or inverts?
The live rock won't be affected?

The liverock will absolutely be affected. Don't ever use copper in a display tank with rocks or sand. The calcium will absorb it and stay there. Only treat with copper in a qt tank and corals and inverts most likely won't be able to be placed in that tank afterwards either. I have no idea what that guy is talking about but please don't do
Copper in the main tank.

 

[cougareyes]

coral and inverts will be affected. cupramine will not affect your biological filter, when you have a large fish only tank with many large fish you can not remove them. do your research, I have treated large fish tanks with live rock and sand, with cupramine, it takes more than recommended, you need to test and adjust as necessary. If your tank has ick, your tank has ick, not just one fish. You either remove all the fish and let the tank go fallow with no fish, or you will be chasing your tail. As long as there is a fish in the tank there will always be a possible host to continue the cycle of the ick parasite. Depending on your fish population compared to your coral, invert population; people make a decision which is the best way to treat. treating in a quarantine with no rock or sand is always easiest and best to maintain copper levels, but not always possible. Some pull there inverts and coral to another tank. But if you leave apparent unaffected fish in your tank and just pull out the fish with signs of ick, it will almost always raise it's ugly head again.
I've also used cuprisorb and other methods to absorb the copper afterwards, and have always been able to remove the copper, either way it takes time.

 

[ThRoewer]

Any live rock treated with copper will be unusable for a reef tank - not even considering that everything on it will be dead.

Medicating a reeftank against fish diseases is a very bad idea by default. Doing it with copper (any brand) is especially bad as it will render it unfit for inverts, especially corals.

Copper, including Cupramine, is generally not a good choice of treatment. Copper is an immunosuppressant that may expose the fish to other infections unaffected by copper. The only setting where copper may be the most feasible solution is in a store or at a wholesaler.

In a hobbyist setting TTM, hyposalinity or both together are better for the fish.

As for only treating the infected fish - that can work and has worked for me before.
Of course you have a risk that ich is still in there, but you have also a realistic chance that it isn't. It is not a method I would recommend, but if you are willing to take a risk it may be the least invasive solution.
At a minimum it buys you time to decide what to do next.

As for going fallow - 6 weeks may do the trick for most ich strains, while some ich strains may still have remaining long term cysts after 3 months.
The so far longest documented duration under controlled conditions was 72 days, but there were also reports of ich showing up again after 3 months of fallow. While execution errors can't be excluded, so can't be the possibility that ich held out for longed than 72 days.

So whatever route you follow, a remaining risk persists.

In my experience the best way to control ich is to keep your fish well fed, fit and healthy and in a low stress environment. While that may require some sacrifices in which fish you can have, it is the by far best long term solution.
It means for most to forgo all tangs - I did so and never felt the need to add one ever again to any of my tanks - small fish that can kept in pairs and groups are way more interesting.
Most people don't have suitable tanks for tangs and in most ich cases tangs are involved.

 

[jbvdhp]

Not that simple, once you see the signs of ick on a fish, your entire system has been exposed. To simply remove the one fish showing signs does not eradicate the virus from the system. If its a fish only I would treat the entire tank, if it's a reef much more complicated.

*parasite