Cryptocaryon still in DT after 12 weeks fallow

[Deinonych]

Really need some help understanding this situation. Back in early August, I had cryptocaryon infect my DT from a piece of coral. I removed all fish, treated them with chloroquine phosphate for 4 weeks and left my tank fallow for 12 weeks. I added the surviving fish (a pair of ocellaris clownfish) at the end of October. They had been spot-free for well over 4 weeks when they were reintroduced. I have since added a Royal Gramma and a Firefish, both of whom went through extensive quarantine, including 2 rounds of Prazipro and 4 weeks of chloroquine phosphate @ 40mg/gal. Neither fish showed any symptoms in QT.

Today, I noticed that my Royal Gramma has a few spots on his tail. Shortly after noticing these, he rubbed up against a piece of rock a couple of times. So, I'm fairly confident that crypt is still in my DT, despite the long fallow time. How is this possible? Am I dealing with some mutant strain of crypt that somehow either survived the CP treatment, or was able to lie dormant longer than 12 weeks? I do have a foxface in QT right now that did have crypt, and he is about to complete his treatment this week. The QT is in the same room, so is it possible that the DT was infected via aerosol?

Really frustrated right now, as I thought I had licked the problem. I will likely pull all my inverts and nuke the DT with chloroquine phosphate, as I am not going to go through the fallow period again.

Any thoughts from the experts here?

 

[MitchSutherland]

no where near an expert here. I dosed CP in my DT FOLWR tank. All the bristleworms died. So i did have an ammonia spike. I used prime.. But it did kill ich from my tank. I had a blue hippo that was infected day after day but since he hasnt scratched once and its been about 2 weeks.

 

[Deinonych]

Thanks. I used dry rock when I built my tank, so I'm not too worried about worms. I'm sure I'll see a spike from the algae die-off, though. Did you run your skimmer when you were dosing CP?

 

[MitchSutherland]

nope. dont got a skimmer yet. take any carbon or anything like that in your system

 

[Deinonych]

I'll take my GFO reactor offline. Probably will not run my skimmer either.

 

[snorvich]

Alternatively, your fish may have still had cryptocaryon irritans despite your treatment. Remember visible ich is not the defining issue for this parasite.

 

[HumbleFish]

FWIW; I sorta had the same thing happen to me many years ago. But instead of treating with CP, I treated with copper. DT went fallow for almost 16 weeks. Thought I had the problem licked, and a few months later I went to Europe for a couple of weeks and during that time my automatic feeders failed. Came home to Ich on all my fish. To this day I still can't figure out how it happened. I am super anal about not cross contaminating. Is there any way possible you might have cross contaminated with the Foxface in QT?

The only thing that happened beforehand is I lost a couple of fish to what I thought was Velvet in QT. But it might have been Ich; I was super busy at the time and not paying attention to my tanks like I should. My QT was right next to the DT, so I find your question about aerosol contamination interesting... Can Ich fly thru the air?!

 

[Deinonych]

Alternatively, your fish may have still had cryptocaryon irritans despite your treatment. Remember visible ich is not the defining issue for this parasite.

Even after a 4 week treatment with CP? The clowns were treated at 75mg/gal, well above the therapeutic dosage. I suppose the gramma could have had it in QT, but it seems unlikely it would have survived a 4 week treatment with CP. Perhaps I need to increase my QT dosage to 60mg/gal or increase the treatment length.

FWIW; I sorta had the same thing happen to me many years ago. But instead of treating with CP, I treated with copper. DT went fallow for almost 16 weeks. Thought I had the problem licked, and a few months later I went to Europe for a couple of weeks and during that time my automatic feeders failed. Came home to Ich on all my fish. To this day I still can't figure out how it happened. I am super anal about not cross contaminating. Is there any way possible you might have cross contaminated with the Foxface in QT?

The only thing that happened beforehand is I lost a couple of fish to what I thought was Velvet in QT. But it might have been Ich; I was super busy at the time and not paying attention to my tanks like I should. My QT was right next to the DT, so I find your question about aerosol contamination interesting... Can Ich fly thru the air?!

I am super anal about cross contamination as well, but I am not ruling out the possibility. I don't know if ich can be transmitted via aerosol. I have read that velvet can, so it stands to reason that ich could as well.

 

[HumbleFish]

I am super anal about cross contamination as well, but I am not ruling out the possibility. I don't know if ich can be transmitted via aerosol. I have read that velvet can, so it stands to reason that ich could as well.

If I'm understanding you correctly...

If you had fish infected with Velvet in a QT right next to a disease free DT; then Velvet could possibly contaminate that DT via aerosol?!

Not doubting you... but I would love to read an article about this.

 

[Deinonych]

I'll see if I can find it. I was shocked when I read it as well.

 

[HumbleFish]

I'll see if I can find it. I was shocked when I read it as well.

Is this it? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848606001785

 

[Deinonych]

Here it is. Page 8 under "Avoiding potential sources of infection."

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/227/

The study you cite above is referenced in this paper.

 

[Deinonych]

FWIW, I think it's more likely that I somehow cross-contaminated my DT than via aerosol transmission. Occam's Razor and all that.

 

[ca1ore]

Is there any reason to doubt the efficacy of your batch of CP? I am seriously thinking of using quinine sulfate next time as it comes from a clearer source (NFP) than some guy on ebay.

 

[Deinonych]

Is there any reason to doubt the efficacy of your batch of CP? I am seriously thinking of using quinine sulfate next time as it comes from a clearer source (NFP) than some guy on ebay.

Not really - I purchased it from a chemical supply company (Alfa Aesar), so I'm very confident it's the real stuff.

 

[rog2961]

It's sad to say but I'm beginning to believe the whole its impossible to eliminate ich from tanks due to it being impossible to avoid contamination. I was thinking about this last night looking at my two tangs in QT. Lets say the drug was 100% effective at eliminating the parasite. Whats to say when we move the fish from QT, the remaining water on the fish does not have ich(egg stage)?

I've read all the scientific literature as well. I do understand it well but I believe we can never be careful enough. Too many factors to control.

 

[reeferstace]

It's sad to say but I'm beginning to believe the whole its impossible to eliminate ich from tanks due to it being impossible to avoid contamination. I was thinking about this last night looking at my two tangs in QT. Lets say the drug was 100% effective at eliminating the parasite. Whats to say when we move the fish from QT, the remaining water on the fish does not have ich(egg stage)?

I've read all the scientific literature as well. I do understand it well but I believe we can never be careful enough. Too many factors to control.

Cryptocaryon is a unicellular protist (diploid). There is no egg stage (haploid).

 

[ca1ore]

What a colossal PitA! I have suspicions that ich may reside in my system because my Hippo has some occasional spots, but I dread the possibility of having to catch 21 fish in a 265 ...... ugh! Good luck.

 

[Deinonych]

It's sad to say but I'm beginning to believe the whole its impossible to eliminate ich from tanks due to it being impossible to avoid contamination. I was thinking about this last night looking at my two tangs in QT. Lets say the drug was 100% effective at eliminating the parasite. Whats to say when we move the fish from QT, the remaining water on the fish does not have ich(egg stage)?

I've read all the scientific literature as well. I do understand it well but I believe we can never be careful enough. Too many factors to control.

In a sense, you are correct; there are too many factors to control. I believe you can tip the scales in one's favor with the right quarantine protocol. I believe I must have screwed up somehow, because CP is very effective. I'm going to move my QTs upstairs so there's no way to cross contaminate.

It *is* possible to maintain a tank free of crypto. There are a number of users on this forum who are doing it. It takes diligence and a will to beat it.

What a colossal PitA! I have suspicions that ich may reside in my system because my Hippo has some occasional spots, but I dread the possibility of having to catch 21 fish in a 265 ...... ugh! Good luck.

Thanks.

It is a pain, but I'm going to keep moving forward. Just have to treat this as yet another learning experience, and use that knowledge to improve my skills as an aquarist.

 

[snorvich]

In a sense, you are correct; there are too many factors to control. I believe you can tip the scales in one's favor with the right quarantine protocol. I believe I must have screwed up somehow, because CP is very effective. I'm going to move my QTs upstairs so there's no way to cross contaminate.

It *is* possible to maintain a tank free of crypto. There are a number of users on this forum who are doing it. It takes diligence and a will to beat it.



Thanks.

It is a pain, but I'm going to keep moving forward. Just have to treat this as yet another learning experience, and use that knowledge to improve my skills as an aquarist.

Well said and great attitude.