Cubed & Squared

[Bello]

I woke yesterday to find a 6025 had somehow come out of its bracket and spent the night bouncing around my acro tips until it settled in the corals and blasted the you know what out of my new yellowish colored acro branch - poor little guy is history and the tank is a mess of sand which i'm still blowing out of the colonies and rocks, lots of smashed tips on the tall acro mounted on the end of the rear rock shelf. Other than that surprise things are going ok.

* I'm thinking one of you two were somehow behind the pump attack on my SPS btw........

:hmm6: ooohhh that's gotta hurt!! Hate it when that happens. Did you fix up the Tunze permanently now? On the bright side, maybe the smashed tips will push some fresh growth?

It wasn't me....maybe it was Troub.... I dunno :uhoh3:

Speaking of pale corals with nice tips, isn't the Ice Fire Echinata, aussie in origin? Planning on getting one?

Sheesh, you got no love for the turdy Abro, well, until I get a nice blue stag like yours, that'll have to do. Think I've got enough of the bushy/tabling types... need them stags now

SSC on the overflow :lol:...Aren't you supposed to be starting on the new tank, or are you up to no good, building it on the sly? :lol:

Got my Calcium Reactor fixed up for now, so fingers crossed that alk will remain stable. I don't normally test for anything apart from alk and sometimes PO4, but the other day, used my Salifert Potassium kit....350ppm....Kinda low. Perhaps that's causing some of the paleness..... Will be bringing that up gradually :thumbsup:

 

[Bello]

And I'm gonna try and take pics on a regular basis, so a couple pics of a pink unknown acro, we shall call him Pinky (yes, I'm very creative :lol, from arrival till date

 

[troubadour11]

:hmm6: ooohhh that's gotta hurt!! Hate it when that happens. Did you fix up the Tunze permanently now? On the bright side, maybe the smashed tips will push some fresh growth?

It wasn't me....maybe it was Troub.... I dunno :uhoh3:

It wasn't me... I was busy doing this: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21474653#post21474653

 

[biggles]

Yes i sorted out the Tunze and double checked all the others to avoid another disaster :deadhorse1:
Ice Fire Echinata - no idea how i'd go about finding a similar wild collected acro with the same colors, if i had access to all these cool and easy to keep colored aquacultured SPS frags you'd be in a world of hurt Bello lol. All my reef troops are wild and do whatever they feel like once i throw them in my water.......
I agree with the need for some nice stags mate, nothing quite sets a reef tank off like a few big branching stags after a years growth, looking forward to seeing some nice additions when you track some down.
All my SCC frags do nothing except encrust even after months. I've read a few others who say this can be normal so i'm just waiting the little buggers out at this stage and hoping they might actually grow upwards at some point this decade.......... if it wasn't my favorite acro it'd already be in the sump with its refusal to grow new branches
I'm keeping alk at 7.5-7.7 and things look good so i'll keep it there for now. What does potassium do, i've never tested for it. What do you use to raise it in your water. ?
Love the before and after of Pinky lol. He was in a pretty rough state in that first pic, looks like he was banged around a bit in the bag. I adjusted the latest pic colors to see what you really have now lol - looking very nice mate, you know pink acros are my weak spot.........:thumbsup:

I really see now what you mean by the paleness of most of your corals pigments. The colors are there but muted. I can see that coral behind the pink one has very nice tips but they're just not 'popping'. I don't see the same results under just blue/white LED's, i lose all tip pigments even though growth is fine. Purples and true pinks like the SCC refuse to hold under the LED's in my sump. Blues pop, greens and anything fluoro is brilliant along with reds like my shrooms and the orange Pavona. I definitely think you are close or already there with your spectrum as you're not losing all the pigments like i seem to under my LED's. Have you got UV diodes as that might be the 'pop' ingredient that's missing.
Don't mean to pick your reef apart mate, i just want to see your display colors look the way i know you and i want them too. See the frag circled in red compared with the colony with colorful tips. It's encrusted like mad but refuses to show any tip pigment after a couple of months under LED's. You can see the green stag frag looks identical to the colony in the display as do the orange pav frags when compared.

 

[Bello]

I guess I have this weird imagination where every single coral in Aus is insane, where ice-fires and SSC's are all over the place :lol: I've seen one on RC from another aussie reefer, and it was gorgeous!! Hopefully, you'll get lucky, and then I'll really be training the carrier fish :lol:

I'm beginning to get irritated with the SSC too. It's the only piece that's consistently RTN'd on me. I only had a few small pieces, and they've all RTN'd one by one. If it weren't so pretty..... sigh . I don't have any left. At least yours are healthy and growing :thumbsup: Hopefully, they'll get cracking. So that's why you've put one on the overflow

I see the difference in the pic, there's no doubt about it. There's certainly a difference in tip colour while the body colour is similar. And its strange that there's growth but no pigment. A friend of mine has the SSC holding the pink under led's, haven't seen it in person, so until I can achieve the same, its up for debate. I have this lingering feeling that I've got more issues with water quality, nutrient and parameter wise. In the case of potassium, apparently zeo tanks, have a tendency to have low potassium values which then need to be dosed to restore normalcy. I never noticed this deficiency before, probably because I didn't have a accurate test kit. The new salifert one seems to be on the money though. My salt mix tests at 390ppm, freshly made, and tank's currently at 350ppm. NSW roughly 400ppm. I'm not too far off for it to make a massive difference IMO. I have a couple zeo supplements to fix this, but they've expired, so a bit wary in using those. Apparently a side effect of low potassium levels is pale colours, so.... maybe thats the problem??? dunno....

In any case, I'd rather get this right, and then muck about with the led's and nutrients. Honestly, I haven't noticed any real differences with higher/lower feedings thus far, maybe I'm not paying enough attention. Experience matters!

I have no concerns with the health and growth of about 80% of the sps. The remaining 20% are the frags, that were present in the Zeovit days. I'm still glad that I cycled the tank the zeo way though, pulled out all the crap from my rock :thumbsup:

I'm not using UV's.....yet. Have the bulbs but not yet. Led's are in the ratio of 2:1 blue to white, with about 30-40% of that blue in the 410-420nm range, so I'd think that area of the spectrum was covered. Interestingly, if you were to stare at the fixtures directly for about 10-20 seconds, you wouldn't be able to discern certain colours thereafter, around you. Very weird. Your eyes deceive you. I was actually a bit concerned the first time that happened :lol:

Thanks for looking closely, the discussion and nudges have helped me immensely :thumbsup:

Haven't bought any new livestock in a couple months at least... getting impatient

Oh god, I'm rambling!!!!!

 

[biggles]

I wish beautiful acros were common but i see 2 green acros for every other color at my LFS - green acros like that new ORA green planet are a dime a dozen and i wouldn't look twice at anything colored like that - you know me i hate green lol. The prettiest acros i've kept have always been the bleaching ones that i've saved, more so than the browned out ones. It's rare to see nicely colored SPS on display as they are always in poor conditions relative to how we intend keeping them.
I meant to tell you about that SCC frag i stuck to the overflow. It was in the sump under the LED's and lost all pink color becoming very sickly pale and flesh colored. It would have been lucky to encrust 1mm in all that time, it basically was just hanging in there. The only difference was lighting, all the SCC frags in the display are beautifully colored - more food for thought buddy. :reading:
So it sounds like most things are going well, it's just the colors that need attention. It can only be lighting or water parameters or a bit of both. If your greens and blues seem pretty good but pinks and purples are a struggle then i'd be inclined to look more to the light spectrum or lack thereof. Purples and pinks failed to appear under my LED's but you can see from that last before and after in my journal how i don't have that problem under the radium.
I appreciate your ideas just as much as you do mine mate, it's good to be able to bounce ideas off reefers who are chasing the same thing as you.
Buy a couple of frags and post pics to help me keep away from the LFS for a couple of months lol........... i need help Bello....:facepalm:
Yes you were rambling mate.......... it's all downhill from here.......

 

[Bello]

I meant to tell you about that SCC frag i stuck to the overflow. It was in the sump under the LED's and lost all pink color becoming very sickly pale and flesh colored. It would have been lucky to encrust 1mm in all that time, it basically was just hanging in there. The only difference was lighting, all the SCC frags in the display are beautifully colored - more food for thought buddy. :reading:

Here's a similarity, the SSC frag that you're describing looked exactly like mine before RTN. There was some growth, encrusting, a few mm's. They were under leds in my frag tank, and water parameters were ULNS at the time. I discontinued zeo shortly after. Maybe there's a link there......:reading:

There is some form of aquaculture in Oz, isn't there? No chance of sourcing the Ice fire from there?

Here's hoping a nice juicy Ice-Fire comes your way :beer:

Here's a thought, correct me if I'm nuts...
"Nice" acro colours are relative, I mean, some reefers like 'em pastel coloured, most probably enjoy the richer/deeper colours. In the case of named acro's like the SSC, Ice Fire, though available as wild colonies, there are enough of them propagated and distributed among reefers, to have a Name, and as such an idea of what the ideal colour should look like. Now in the case of your wild acros, and my maricultured pieces, there is no ideal colour, is there? It's just what looks good to us, isn't it?

I was awaiting some frags in April, didn't make it . Seems like I'll get a few itty-bitty pieces either this month or hopefully in June, else it's only mari pieces, and they're in awfully short supply at the moment.

I haven't bought any livestock in a while, so I've decided to throw money at equipment :lol:. Was just thinking that my son's getting older, and the frag plug isn't quite holding :lol:. I'll need to get tech friendly to ensure that my lil guy doesn't do anything extra silly, plus it'd be nice to take him out on weekend's without worrying about the tanks. So with that in mind, looks like its time to upgrade my Profilux :thumbsup:

So what's the bottomline? Biggles = new tank running = new aussie colonies :lol:

 

[biggles]

I have no doubt considering the shared water parameters that the SCC was failing as a direct consequence of not having a full spectrum LED unit.
There is at least one online aquaculture seller but the SPS offered for sale were garbage that i wouldn't look twice at in my LFS display. I have just about reached the point now where i will start looking for stunning pieces only, so far i just bought the best of whatever was available. A few of the SPS in my tank are not pretty enough to keep their place and will be going bye bye over time.
Totally agree about the relative nature of what takes our eye in a reef. You already know i hate green acros, no idea why the collectors continue to bring them up in large numbers as they are always the ones left to die in LFS tanks. My personal preference is for very pale colored branches with nicely colored pigment highlights - the SCC is the perfect acro to me
That's a bummer about the lack of SPS available atm mate, i hope you get lucky and find a couple of nice pieces though - fingers crossed for you
No idea what a profilux is but it sounds like some sort of incontinence device, you and your high tech gadgets - aint natural i tell ya !:debi:
Bottom line is i'm going to start building another stand very soon.........already bought some timber and will make a start soon, i basically want a peninsula/rimless/eurobraced/deep/shallow sorta tank lol :thumbsup:

 

[troubadour11]

So here's my "newbie-ness" for you... I had to go do some looking up on "SCC" corals. It didn't take long to wet my appetite for them. :love2: I see why you chase the color in them!

Bello: I know you'd like to tighten up those colors more towards your liking. Going back and looking at the pics on the first page, I see the LED rigs look perfectly level. Have you thought about giving the rig just a bit of an angle. Maybe slightly lower on the front then in the back. It's one thing I've been considering doing with mine (eventually). I'm thinking of a very slight angle, front and outside edges being slightly lower then the back and middle. But this is mostly because of my limited footprint, so I'm expecting the most growth forward in the tank. I'll also have 2 rigs over 1 tank. And I have a solid colored plastic frame on the top with a center brace. So the slight inward angle will hopefully help eliminate a shadow from the brace. I see in threads lately lots of people angling their LED rigs.

Their problem being that the colony grows and encrusts, but has color paleness, especially in the meat of the branches with more color towards the tips. Their theory is by angling the rig slightly more full spectrum coverage of light can penetrate towards the base of their corals from the main viewing angle. I know a thread or two I've seen lately (from reefers that have built their own custom rig previously), lots of them are designing their next fixture to be more like the top 1/2 of a tunnel heat sink rather then a flat panel.

We use the same principle in 3d vfx when lighting an outdoor scene. We use a light rig spread out in a 1/2 circle (much like an LED array) with an outdoor HDRI image as well which is projected for color and reflections. We call it (very creatively) a lit sky dome.

OOoOOoOoOooo :idea: Maybe try taping a picture of the sky up there to get that color you want :idea: Just got to trick them corals...Hehehehe :facepalm:

I'm not sure if it would address anything you might be seeing. But just some food for thought on LED coverage :dance: Of course I look forward to see those close to UV spectrum diodes in there. That may help broaden the low end spectrum some.

Did I miss it in the thread, what kind of lighting schedule do you run (blues from A to B at X% and whites)? Part of the reason for my reef angel is so I can ramp my blues, whites, and colored strings to different peaks and over different time periods. Although, that may be what you're headed towards with the Profilux. Those look like pretty awesome systems! When I researched them, it was what I probably would have chosen given unlimited $$$. So the Reef Angel became my substitute. A little DIY programming fits (hopefully a great set up) into my price range on my first reef.

Anyway, enough of my rambling ideas. All of my info is just off reading and research and no practical experience yet. So you're reef looks way better then my empty tank. So keep it up, because what do I really know

 

[biggles]

Just a pink reference shot for you and Troub mate - since neither of you will see much of it under your Travolta lighting............

 

[Bello]

That's a bummer about the lack of SPS available atm mate, i hope you get lucky and find a couple of nice pieces though - fingers crossed for you
No idea what a profilux is but it sounds like some sort of incontinence device, you and your high tech gadgets - aint natural i tell ya !:debi:
Bottom line is i'm going to start building another stand very soon.........already bought some timber and will make a start soon, i basically want a peninsula/rimless/eurobraced/deep/shallow sorta tank lol :thumbsup:

That's exactly the problem, it's a pain to get some nice pieces, and even when I do, all I'll be able to get is frags. And thereafter lies the risk of something going wrong and losing all that I've struggled thus far for. So I've decided to basically foolproof my system as best as I can (no, this is not an admission of my foolishness ), with a couple of very pricey but supposedly of excellent quality, investments.

Green acros :lol:, I'm fine with 'em as long as the they're of different shades and structures. I know that I won't be able to source the kind of quality pieces that you can, so need to work with what I can get. So I'm laying emphasis primarily on structure, namely, staghorns, and then colour. My dream of what a reef should like has always involved a bunch of staghorns

Finalized on the tank dimensions as yet? Personally, I'd like to see at least 36 inch width, guarantee it'll be fun to scape

 

[Bello]

Their problem being that the colony grows and encrusts, but has color paleness, especially in the meat of the branches with more color towards the tips. Their theory is by angling the rig slightly more full spectrum coverage of light can penetrate towards the base of their corals from the main viewing angle.

We use the same principle in 3d vfx when lighting an outdoor scene. We use a light rig spread out in a 1/2 circle (much like an LED array) with an outdoor HDRI image as well which is projected for color and reflections. We call it (very creatively) a lit sky dome.

Did I miss it in the thread, what kind of lighting schedule do you run (blues from A to B at X% and whites)? Part of the reason for my reef angel is so I can ramp my blues, whites, and colored strings to different peaks and over different time periods.

Right now I'm chasing SSC's ... period! .... mine have all gone bye bye, and I'm desperately waiting for a replacement, while Biggles enjoys torturing me with as many pics of SSC as possible . The only shot he hasn't taken of them yet, is one from under the tank :lol:

That's good info on the LED rigs, and logical :thumbsup:. While I'm wary of messing around with the current LED rig, once my frags/colonies, get larger, I could flank the central rig with strips on 3-4 sides at angles

I dunno about taping a pic of the sky to trick them corals :lol:, but what about changing that poster every night for the starry starry sky effect :lol:

My lighting schedule will sound strange to you. Each fixture has 2 channels, of both blues and whites. I don't like the pure blue actinic look as such, so mixed 'em from the start. Basically one channel (with a slightly higher blue to white ratio) comes on at 100% intensity for a total of 12 hrs and the other for 6 hrs, once again at MAX. I wanted the lighting setup to be as simple and repairable as possible. I tried to program dimming for the frag tank via the GHL, but I think my cheapo led drivers have other ideas. Either way, I got fed up :lol: Hopefully, you'll have better luck with the Reef Angel :thumbsup:

Keep the ideas coming...... I'm really thinking of rescaping my Monti tank..... AGAIN :furious:

 

[Bello]

So, as I'm no thinking of rescaping the Monti tank... and the idea is to have about 6-7 islands all over the tank with heights varying from 6 to 12 inches. What do you guys think? I want a layout that's easily movable while having plenty of rock. Any other ideas, links, etc?

Here's the current FTS's

 

[Charley Diesing]

I love both scapes I don't think I've posted on here but have been a follower since the beginning. I would hate to see anything change, besides coral growth that is

 

[Bello]

Thanks Charley for your vote of confidence!! :thumbsup:

I've still been reconsidering my decision for the last couple hours. Each time I change things around, I know I'll end up slowing down growth. And that just defeats the entire purpose

I'm trying to get away with a slight modification of the plan . Will give that a go over the weekend

Thanks again, I appreciate it :thumbsup:

 

[Charley Diesing]

Thanks Charley for your vote of confidence!! :thumbsup:

I've still been reconsidering my decision for the last couple hours. Each time I change things around, I know I'll end up slowing down growth. And that just defeats the entire purpose

I'm trying to get away with a slight modification of the plan . Will give that a go over the weekend

Thanks again, I appreciate it :thumbsup:

No problem, your tank is fantastic. And yes every time you move something around it pretty much makes corals just stall for a week. Also I will add some small adjustments that could possibly be done with no effects to your corals.


Here's the current FTS's



Move the island slightly to the left and towards the front of the tank. Then add some sort of rock-scape on the right side.

[/QUOTE]

This one I really feel like you could add more in the front left, I see you currently have something going. But I think a nice sized rock with a capping/tabling monti.

Either way, can't wait to see more.

 

[troubadour11]

+1 to Charley's comments.

First off, if I haven't said it, I think your tanks look awesome as is. So anything I say is just spit balling conversation with you. I hope my tank looks as good soon :fun4:

Secondly... I was going to respond with the same comment on the Monti re-scape. I don't think you need to breakdown that rock at all. I agree with the slightly left comment. And either slide it forward just a bit or give it just a small counter-clockwise rotation. You can show off one of those tabling pieces in the front corner and the other will create a nice low shelf towards the back center. Then play around with a new rock piece on the other side. Maybe a small footprint that's taller and narrower?

I'm still liking the other tank too. But I bet you continue to grow that raft island in the front left at some point! :lol:

 

[biggles]

I know how annoying it can be when you look at your display and think that a change in aquascape is needed. I have made a lot of changes to arrive at a point where i'm happy with my rocks but it has not been well received by the SPS, the constant changes to light and flow conditions has slowed their acclimation and growth considerably i know. I think your idea to try a smaller tweak first is good as breaking that structure up into 4-5 structures will be a big job. I know you have a good eye for design and cool aquascaping mate so whatever you do i know it will look great
I love your idea for lots of stags, they really are the kings of the reef towering over the other SPS - looking forward to seeing you put that plan into action No more pink pics i promise lol - i hope you keep trying with the SCC as i can't see a reason why it would die on you again going by the health of all your other acros, maybe it was due to less ideal water at the time you tried it or some other reason. Really want to see a big tabling SCC somewhere in your reef Bello - think positive ! :thumbsup:
I rang a few stores and one about 90 mins drive away has a small multibar angel so i think i'm going for a drive tomorrow morning - hope it's healthy and eating Also mate, do you think a flame would be ok in the 20x20x14" sump nano or is it too small an area.

 

[Bello]

No problem, your tank is fantastic. And yes every time you move something around it pretty much makes corals just stall for a week. Also I will add some small adjustments that could possibly be done with no effects to your corals.

Move the island slightly to the left and towards the front of the tank. Then add some sort of rock-scape on the right side.

This one I really feel like you could add more in the front left, I see you currently have something going. But I think a nice sized rock with a capping/tabling monti.

Either way, can't wait to see more.

Thanks again Charley :thumbsup:

At least once a week, I look at the acro tank, and wonder about adding that second island to the right rear . Each time I put it off, thinking I don't have enough coral or just leave it be. Truth is, there is a terrible amount of light that's just getting wasted in that area.

The current rock on the front left of the Monti tank is too small, to make any sort of visual impact. I have 2 choices as I see it, if I were to continue with the existing structure,
- Add a decent sized structure to the front left
- Extend the left foot of the main structure, sort of like a "foothill"

Great suggestions and much appreciated

 

[Bello]

+1 to Charley's comments.

First off, if I haven't said it, I think your tanks look awesome as is. So anything I say is just spit balling conversation with you. I hope my tank looks as good soon :fun4:

Play around with a new rock piece on the other side. Maybe a small footprint that's taller and narrower?

I'm still liking the other tank too. But I bet you continue to grow that raft island in the front left at some point! :lol:

Thanks a ton Troub !

We'll make sure that your tank looks as good, if not better :thumbsup:. You have great access to quality livestock, so expectations are running high :lol:

Looks like changes will be made, hopefully not too large. I decided to take down a fish only tank that I had over at my parents place. It was largely ignored, but there's some decent rock in there, and some quality equipment that I need to sell off, to contribute towards my new high end purchases . No money :lol:

Here's an old pic of that setup....