UprightJoe
New member
Added three more capfuls of DT's... It's green now 
.
.
Culturing Phyto
- Thread starter UprightJoe
- Start date
UprightJoe
New member
Actually, I just noticed that the expiration on my bottle is November 1 so it's probably running a little on the weak side 
. I just bought it a couple of weeks ago too. I swear I was staring at a bottle with a January expiration date. I must have assumed they all expired in January and picked up the wrong one.
That's a real bummer. That stuff is too expensive to be throwing 3/4 of a bottle away.
. I just bought it a couple of weeks ago too. I swear I was staring at a bottle with a January expiration date. I must have assumed they all expired in January and picked up the wrong one.That's a real bummer. That stuff is too expensive to be throwing 3/4 of a bottle away.
UprightJoe
New member
I didn't want to use the expired DT's in my display tank so I went out a bought a new bottle with a March 2007 expiration date.
One thing I noticed immediately is that the fresh bottle smells strongly of sulphur whereas the old bottle smells faintly of fish.
I still have the original 2L bottle bubbling but I also started a second bottle with the fresh DT's just in case.
I also switched over to using a 48" shoplight with 6700k bulbs.
One thing I noticed immediately is that the fresh bottle smells strongly of sulphur whereas the old bottle smells faintly of fish.
I still have the original 2L bottle bubbling but I also started a second bottle with the fresh DT's just in case.
I also switched over to using a 48" shoplight with 6700k bulbs.
Hmm. OK, when you say not green, do you mean absolutely no green? I originally though you meant it had not gotten any greener than when you started.
If your culture has lost its green tint, it has probably crashed and will not re-start.
I would also start with more than three capfuls. to give your culture a strong start.
Fred
If your culture has lost its green tint, it has probably crashed and will not re-start.
I would also start with more than three capfuls. to give your culture a strong start.
Fred
UprightJoe
New member
The original innoculation with the old DT's was 1/2 cap. This barely discolored the water and then it turned a hazy white a day or two later (probably from a bacterial bloom I'm assuming). The second innoculation with the old DT's was 3 caps. The color on this also seemed to be much lighter on the second day but now seems to be getting greener.
The second bottle that I just set up today was with one cap of very fresh DT's. It seems to be almost as green as when I used 3 caps of the old stuff.
I'm actually optimistic that the first bottle is going to grow this time. I don't know what type of density I'll get but I think I can see a definite improvement between yesterday and today for the first time. Of course, I haven't measured it in any way so it may be my imagination.
The second bottle that I just set up today was with one cap of very fresh DT's. It seems to be almost as green as when I used 3 caps of the old stuff.
I'm actually optimistic that the first bottle is going to grow this time. I don't know what type of density I'll get but I think I can see a definite improvement between yesterday and today for the first time. Of course, I haven't measured it in any way so it may be my imagination.
it will be interesting to see how it works out.
I believe that there is usually a minumum density needed to keep the algae growing well. What labs and aquaculture facilities do is start with small quantities adding the culture to new medium as it matures. So they would start with say 500ml, grow that through one cylce, split it and add each half to a 1,000 ml medium bottle, grow split, add to a 2l medium bottle...
I think what they are trying to do is to get the culture growing at the maximum rate so that nothing else can take hold and crash the culture.
Fred
I believe that there is usually a minumum density needed to keep the algae growing well. What labs and aquaculture facilities do is start with small quantities adding the culture to new medium as it matures. So they would start with say 500ml, grow that through one cylce, split it and add each half to a 1,000 ml medium bottle, grow split, add to a 2l medium bottle...
I think what they are trying to do is to get the culture growing at the maximum rate so that nothing else can take hold and crash the culture.
Fred
UprightJoe
New member
Well, I think I can definitely say that the original bottle is getting greener and more opaque. I looked at it this morning and I could just barely see through the entire bottle to something placed on the far side. Now I can't see through it at all.
If it gets to a really rich, dark green like pictures I've seen or like DT's, I'm going to hit up a local reefer for a pure culture of a specific species. At that point, I should be able to make a little stick to put down into it for measuring the density. I'll have to find the charts online somewhere that show you the cell density at differnt visibility levels. I'm not sure where to find them but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
If it gets to a really rich, dark green like pictures I've seen or like DT's, I'm going to hit up a local reefer for a pure culture of a specific species. At that point, I should be able to make a little stick to put down into it for measuring the density. I'll have to find the charts online somewhere that show you the cell density at differnt visibility levels. I'm not sure where to find them but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
UprightJoe
New member
Quick update. I'll post a picture tomorrow...
Bottle #1 is getting to be a pretty dark green. I'd guess the visibility is about 1.5 inches right now though I haven't actually measured it.
Bottle #2 is turning a dark brown color so I'm assuming it favored Phaeodactylum tricornutum for some reason. (I believe that's the one and only brown species in DT's, somebody correct me if I'm wrong).
I think things are going well enough that I'm going to post on my local club forum and see if anybody has some specific cultures that I can get a start from. That way, I can measure the cell density using visibility.
Bottle #1 is getting to be a pretty dark green. I'd guess the visibility is about 1.5 inches right now though I haven't actually measured it.
Bottle #2 is turning a dark brown color so I'm assuming it favored Phaeodactylum tricornutum for some reason. (I believe that's the one and only brown species in DT's, somebody correct me if I'm wrong).
I think things are going well enough that I'm going to post on my local club forum and see if anybody has some specific cultures that I can get a start from. That way, I can measure the cell density using visibility.
UprightJoe
New member
Here's a link to a photo of the two cultures:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/travis_hanna/detail?.dir=/f97cre2&.dnm=9877re2.jpg&.src=ph
I don't think the first one is getting much more green (at least I'm not seeing dramatic differences from day to day anymore) so I'm probably going to split the culture today.
First I'm going to try to see if I can test the amount of Nitrate/Phosphate remaining. I've turned off the air in hopes that the phyto will settle slightly. Then I'm going to try pouring a little through coffee filters (I doubt they'll screen much out but it's the only thing I can find around the house that may work). If I think it's still too green to get an accurate color reading, I'll try diluting it with some distilled water.
I don't know what the odds are of this working but I figure it's worth a shot.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/travis_hanna/detail?.dir=/f97cre2&.dnm=9877re2.jpg&.src=ph
I don't think the first one is getting much more green (at least I'm not seeing dramatic differences from day to day anymore) so I'm probably going to split the culture today.
First I'm going to try to see if I can test the amount of Nitrate/Phosphate remaining. I've turned off the air in hopes that the phyto will settle slightly. Then I'm going to try pouring a little through coffee filters (I doubt they'll screen much out but it's the only thing I can find around the house that may work). If I think it's still too green to get an accurate color reading, I'll try diluting it with some distilled water.
I don't know what the odds are of this working but I figure it's worth a shot.
Kurt03
Active member
are you sure it didnt crash?
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/09/crashed_phyto.jpg
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/06/09/crashed_phyto.jpg
UprightJoe
New member
I assume you're referring to the brown bottle...
I'm sure it didn't crash. It doesn't come across in the picture but it's a really rich golden brown color and got steadily darker all week. Fro what little information I've been able to find, I believe Phaeodactylum tricornutum is a brown diatom. It's one of the three organisms in DT's.
The coffee filter thing didn't work out. As expected, the phyto just went right on through. Dilluting it by half with distilled water helped but it was still impossible to get an accurate color reading. That being said, I tested it anyhow and I'm fairly confident that Nitrate is < 10ppm and Phosphate < 2ppm. As such, I'm mixing up a new batch of salt water right now to split the culture. I'll probably split both as long as I'm at it.
I'm sure it didn't crash. It doesn't come across in the picture but it's a really rich golden brown color and got steadily darker all week. Fro what little information I've been able to find, I believe Phaeodactylum tricornutum is a brown diatom. It's one of the three organisms in DT's.
The coffee filter thing didn't work out. As expected, the phyto just went right on through. Dilluting it by half with distilled water helped but it was still impossible to get an accurate color reading. That being said, I tested it anyhow and I'm fairly confident that Nitrate is < 10ppm and Phosphate < 2ppm. As such, I'm mixing up a new batch of salt water right now to split the culture. I'll probably split both as long as I'm at it.
UprightJoe
New member
I know there are some materials available for aquaculture/research that have mesh sizes of 1 micron and even smaller. They've been EXPENSIVE everywhere I've found them online though.
I saw some vacuum cleaner bags that advertised a 3 micron size but they were $30 which is more than I want to spend before I know whether or not it will work. There has to be some inexpensive material somewhere that is capable of screening out the phyto...
I saw some vacuum cleaner bags that advertised a 3 micron size but they were $30 which is more than I want to spend before I know whether or not it will work. There has to be some inexpensive material somewhere that is capable of screening out the phyto...
gemini aquarius(t)
Always Learning
hi im new to this phyto thing (todays my first even thinking about it) but right now i have a 1.5 L water bottle that has a air hose going to the bottom i used tap water with conditioner but i dont know what to use to get the culture going i heard that you can get either algea disks or live phyto or dt's or somthing like that so i was just wondering also how hard is it??
UprightJoe
New member
So far, it seems pretty easy though it's much too early to declare success with my little project here.
In addition to your bottle of saltwater and air hose, you'll need fertilizer, light, and a some live phytoplankton to start the culture.
The tried, true, and proven fertilizer formula is called Guillard’s formula. You can get it here under the name Micro Algae Grow:
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure...25.20021*Q83K87&product=MICRO_MACRO_NUTRIENTS
Some people have used Miracle Grow with apparent success. I'm hesitant to use it though because if I remember correctly, it contains lots of ammonia. This isn't going to hurt the phytoplankton (In fact, I would bet the phyto actually PREFERS ammonia over nitrate as its nitrogen source). My concern with it is, if you accidentally harvest the phytoplankton before the ammonia has been consumed it could hurt whatever lives in the tank you're feeding.
For light, I'm using a $7 fluorescent shop light from Home Depot with two GE 6500k bulbs. I think the bulbs were $6 for the pair. Just about any full spectrum fluorescent bulb should work. I think some people even just set the bottle in a window and use sunlight. The lighting side of things seems to be pretty forgiving from what I've read.
For the live phytoplankton starter, you can use DT's but there's a caveat. DT's now contains three different species of phyto and you don't know which one you're going to get. One of them will end up outcompeting the others. I didn't much care for the first phase of this experiment. I just wanted to see if the fertilizer mix I cooked up would actually grow stuff.
I'm picking up some Nannochloropsis oculata today from a fellow reefer though so I can get a better handle on how well my setup is actually working. If you can't find a local reefer to get a sample from, you can order cultures on disks or test tubes from various places such as here:
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi?cart_id=7437325.20021*7-5Jx7&product=LIVE_CULTURES
This is the article I used to get started. It should have lots of good info for ya:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm
In addition to your bottle of saltwater and air hose, you'll need fertilizer, light, and a some live phytoplankton to start the culture.
The tried, true, and proven fertilizer formula is called Guillard’s formula. You can get it here under the name Micro Algae Grow:
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure...25.20021*Q83K87&product=MICRO_MACRO_NUTRIENTS
Some people have used Miracle Grow with apparent success. I'm hesitant to use it though because if I remember correctly, it contains lots of ammonia. This isn't going to hurt the phytoplankton (In fact, I would bet the phyto actually PREFERS ammonia over nitrate as its nitrogen source). My concern with it is, if you accidentally harvest the phytoplankton before the ammonia has been consumed it could hurt whatever lives in the tank you're feeding.
For light, I'm using a $7 fluorescent shop light from Home Depot with two GE 6500k bulbs. I think the bulbs were $6 for the pair. Just about any full spectrum fluorescent bulb should work. I think some people even just set the bottle in a window and use sunlight. The lighting side of things seems to be pretty forgiving from what I've read.
For the live phytoplankton starter, you can use DT's but there's a caveat. DT's now contains three different species of phyto and you don't know which one you're going to get. One of them will end up outcompeting the others. I didn't much care for the first phase of this experiment. I just wanted to see if the fertilizer mix I cooked up would actually grow stuff.
I'm picking up some Nannochloropsis oculata today from a fellow reefer though so I can get a better handle on how well my setup is actually working. If you can't find a local reefer to get a sample from, you can order cultures on disks or test tubes from various places such as here:
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi?cart_id=7437325.20021*7-5Jx7&product=LIVE_CULTURES
This is the article I used to get started. It should have lots of good info for ya:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm
UprightJoe
New member
I just picked up some Nanno from another local reefer. I was expecting to get a little dixie cup but he gave me almost a liter and dosed it with f/2 before he gave it to me. This is awesome because I will actually have something to compare my cultures against.
I'm going to measure the opacity of all the cultures I currently have going before I split them. Now if I can just find those charts showing the cell density online somewhere...
I'm going to measure the opacity of all the cultures I currently have going before I split them. Now if I can just find those charts showing the cell density online somewhere...
