Cupramine & Salifert test kit

[IUfan]

I have a small Multibar angel in my 10 gallon QT tank. I've had him about a week. Over the first week I dosed prazipro and slowly raised the salinity to that of my DT. Today the angel was not looking so good. Lethargic, hanging at the bottom, breathing heavy and looked like he was on deaths door tbh.

Tested for ammonia and it's 0.

1 round of prazi pro down, so figured that any flukes would be taken care of, and maybe it was time to try cupramine.

I've never used cupramine before. Followed the instructions and added 1ml for the 10 gallon tank. Given the fish's health I decided to do the 2nd dose today and added the additional 1ml. This should have given the tank a copper level of 0.5 but the salifert test kit reads 0. Am I dosing incorrectly or will cupramine not show up on this test kit?

The angel looks a bit better, he was on his side before copper and now he's upright at least. I didn't think copper could make a difference that fast?




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[IUfan]

Forgot to mention, I have marine pure ceramic media in the QT, could that be absorbing the copper?


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[HumbleFish]

Forgot to mention, I have marine pure ceramic media in the QT, could that be absorbing the copper?

Very possible. I would remove it, and recheck your copper level. If still showing 0, dose a small amount of Cupramine without the ceramic media and test again.

You can also dose Cupramine into a glass jar and test that, to ensure your test kit is working.

 

[Smokey Stover]

I believe you need to use the SeaChem Test kit for Cupramine. For accuracy. As it's different than other copper meds.

 

[HumbleFish]

I believe you need to use the SeaChem Test kit for Cupramine. For accuracy. As it's different than other copper meds.

Both Seachem and Salifert will accurately test Cupramine.

 

[Smokey Stover]

^^ Good to know, Thanks.

 

[Louis Z]

What do the fins look like? Are they ragged? Any white spots? any skin discoloration or opaque filmy covering ? Any flashing or itching? Caution that since you dosed copper you will have to check your ammonia levels daily . Copper has very good bactericidal properties . Although copper may not kill all the bacteria at this dose, it can kill some and maybe cause a rise in ammonia . I have seen a low conc of ammonia show up even if I have cultured media . Now if you have a large amt of stones or surface area with bacteria, It may not happen. Feed slowly to watch if the fish is eating before putting a whole lot of food in the tank and use a siphon to draw out uneaten food afterwards. I would add an air stone . Often the parasites can damage or cover the gill tissue and cause decreased oxygen absorption. When the fish is breathing hard or swimming into the current, it could be a symptom of velvet which often can lead to a quick demise . I employ a 3 to 5 min freshwater dip before I transfer to another hospital tank . FW is supposed to kill free swimming dinospores and transferring to a new tank may leave any tomonts behind that have yet to hatch.

 

[Dmorty217]

I would look into using chloroquine phosphate and ditch the cupramine but thats just me. I use copper as a last ditch effort. The last time I used copper meds it made all my fish stop eating for the full 30 day treatment and when I removed the copper they immediately started eating again.

 

[IUfan]

The fins look fine, no white spots that I can tell, but the skin does look a bit off color. The gills look a bit swollen and look a bit red inside. Breathing heavy, not eating, lethargic.

Almost sounds like ammonia poisoning but the tank is at 0, I have a tonne of cycled media in there.

I have Chooroquine Phosphate, does it get absorbed by rock also? Does it kill beneficial bacteria?

I may do a tank transfer and begin using CP if he's still swimming today



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[IUfan]

Unfortunately he didn't make it.


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[HumbleFish]

I have Chooroquine Phosphate, does it get absorbed by rock also? Does it kill beneficial bacteria?

I'm not 100% sure if it gets absorbed by rock like copper does, but Chloroquine is biodegradable by bacteria which lives in rock, sand, etc. So, it would be best to use it in a somewhat sterile QT. Dose higher (60mg/gal) if utilizing any biological filtration in the QT.

I agree that it would be better to use Chloroquine than copper on a sensitive angelfish such as this.

 

[HumbleFish]

Unfortunately he didn't make it.

Sorry to hear this

 

[Louis Z]

I read how simple glass or bright light often dropped the conc of CP. I was reading here or on r2r about someone testing chloroquine and how quickly it degraded .that reinforced my anecdotal evidence of treatment failure with CP . I was assuming poor quality of CP due to source. On my next usage of ick shield , I will change 60% water and redose at 40mg/ gal. I have always used CP in almost bare tank except heater, air stone and some limestone rock. As for the multibar . I have never owned one but from what I read they are very delicate. That's when I would probably source from LA DD or a great LFS that knows how to handle them

 

[HumbleFish]

I read how simple glass or bright light often dropped the conc of CP. I was reading here or on clay-boa about someone testing chloroquine and how quickly it degraded .that reinforced my anecdotal evidence of treatment failure with CP . I was assuming poor quality of CP due to source. On my next usage of ick shield , I will change 60% water and redose at 40mg/ gal. I have always used CP in almost bare tank except heater, air stone and some limestone rock. As for the multibar . I have never owned one but from what I read they are very delicate. That's when I would probably source from LA DD or a great LFS that knows how to handle them

Did your CP failures occur in a QT with no working biofilter? I have a pet theory that the fish may actually be able to metabolize Chloroquine. I hope to put that theory to the test soon.

 

[Louis Z]

Yes as I usually do not use biofilters in HT due to the frequent tank changes but adding CP and thinking that it would last 5 to 7 days was my inexperience. In copper tanks I do use bio because I can test the copper and know the conc. And I can test for ammonia also. But with CP how to test? So I am guessing. That's why I am considering two day redosing the tank to avoid drop in conc. I really don't know if the biofilters are effective with CP but I am about to try it. I have a few fish in qt that do not seem to have anything but I want to make sure. I am just paranoid

 

[Dmorty217]

CP gets broken down by bacteria like Humble mentioned and I believe that sand absorbs it but not as much with rock. Years ago I had a issue with disease that showed up in my DT, I dosed CP once per week at full strength for 4 weeks straight never doing a water change or using carbon and all fish survived and ate like nothing was in the tank, the ich was eradicated too.