Custom In-Wall 150 Project

[melev]

Typically Dursos are not glued at all. They don't need to be. However, that has nothing to do with the current situation.

You shouldn't have to close the ballvalve going to the refugium at all. Perhaps due to the way your plumbing is designed, it is vapor locking in some spot. Typically, all drainlines in any plumbing project must gradually lower to their final destination, using gravity to get all water out of the line. Do you have any spots where the water has to rise before it can drop again?

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6646762#post6646762 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Do you have any spots where the water has to rise before it can drop again?

I don't think so. Both drains flow straight down out of the bulkhead, then 45 over to the wall in a downward direction, as shown in the following image:

Then from the wall it 90s along the back of the sump, look at the right side of this pic:

After the 90s, the one drain flows about a foot into a 45 then through a union and into the sump. The other drain extends the lenght of the back wall and has a Tee which directs water into the sump and to the fuge. Right off the Tee is a ball valve I use to adjust the fuge flow--it's hard to see but it's behind the skimmer cup in the pic below.

Everything seems to flow down properly, so I have no clue where it is vapor locking. It was fine when I first started it up, but once I tested a power outage and shut off the pump, it has not drained properly since.

My question now is, can a vapor lock cause the drain to stop and the tank to overflow?

 

[melev]

Well, technically yes. If the pump pushes water up to the tank faster than it can drain, the tank can overflow.

That pipe that points down into the bubble tower as well as the one in next to the skimmer. How deep are they in the water in that section?

Did you say the refugium side was the part giving you problems? You didn't post a picture of that half of the sump. However, looking at your plumbing, I don't see how that could be a problem. If anything, it seems like the majority would flow to the skimmer section based on gravity alone, with a small trickle going to the 'fuge.

 

[conda]

Both drain pipes sit about 1" or less below the water surface.

The fuge side was giving me problems last night, but now it's the other drain. The fuge drain was working perfectly when I left this morning, but the other drain is barely sucking water. Why it switched is beyond me. I dialed back the return pump just a bit because I did not want any problems while I was gone. Although, I believe 1 drain can handle all the flow, I was just being safe.

And like I said before, they both were working fine when I first started the flow. But after the overflow was filled and I turned off the pump, when I kicked it back on is when the problems started. I did notice the overflow did not drain below the street ell.

So the two problems I have are:

1. One drain seems to be taking 90% of the flow.
2. I'm still getting the flushing effect, up and down water in the overflow.

Could this be a problem with two durso pipes in one overflow? Would a larger hole in the cap help?

 

[melev]

If you get a flushing effect, the air vent in the Durso isn't quite large enough. I think your gluing project may have affected them in some way.

It doesn't matter if you have two Durso's in one overflow. You can have several, and they should all drain equally.

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6651332#post6651332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
If you get a flushing effect, the air vent in the Durso isn't quite large enough. I think your gluing project may have affected them in some way.

It doesn't matter if you have two Durso's in one overflow. You can have several, and they should all drain equally.

I just talked with Chris from Ocean Image and he said the same thing. I drilled a slightly bigger hole, now I will wait to see if that helps. He said since I added RO water and SALT, the water consistency is different from when I first tuned the Durso's with fresh.

BTW, just after I drilled the holes bigger the power went out, lol. Got another power outage test for real!

 

[conda]

I drilled the holes in the Durso caps the next size above an 1/8", whatever that size is, and the flow seems real smooth now. After I did this, the skimmer kicked in and started working much better--coincidence?

I'm still having a problem with only one Durso taking most of the water. In fact, the bubble tower is overflowing with bubbles since the one drain is really cooking and producing a ton of them.
(Unless it just looks like one is taking all the flow since the drain with the fuge line is creating so many bubbles.)

I'm still not quite sure how to fix this problem. I may start over with new caps.

I just wish I could get my flow to look like Melev's in his bubble tower video.

 

[melev]

Remember that was a tank draining 300gph into a 14g sump. Your's is exceeding that ratio, right?

Perhaps the reason one drain seems to handle more is because it is the shorter of the two lines, with the one going to the refugium being quite a bit longer.

No more flushing or water rising/lowering effect?

 

[conda]

I have not seen or heard any flushing since I drilled the hole larger. But I did not spend much time watching it yet. The flow seems much better though.

The drain that is taking most of the flow is the longer drain. It flows down, then 45's, then 90's, then Tee's, then drops into the bubble tower after a few more 45's. The second line that is moving slower is the short run.

Maybe I should dial back the return a bit and see what happens. I placed a ball valve on the return line just for this reason.

On a side note, when the power goes off and then comes back on, the Sea Swirl really sprays the water before it gets going. Is there any way to fix this without a check valve?

 

[conda]

Well, I was messing with the Dursos again tonight and if I remove the street ell from the Durso that is not working, they both seem to drain equally.

 

[melev]

Does it run silently? If it does, leave the Street L off.

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6662046#post6662046 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Does it run silently? If it does, leave the Street L off.

No, it was noisy. I took this as if I needed a bigger hole still, so I drilled one 11/64" and left it run overnight.

Now the water level in the overflow is about 3/4" over the elbow--which is what it was when I tuned it originally. Now they both seem to be taking the flow equally. I didn't try a power outage test yet, but I hope this is finally it.

What a pain tuning these things. But when they work, they work well.

Next step, tune the skimmer. :reading:

 

[melev]

So the hole is pretty large now, almost 1/4". Like you said, once you've got it working, it's a done deal.

Tune in next week for Skimmer Talk. :lol:

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6664471#post6664471 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
So the hole is pretty large now, almost 1/4". Like you said, once you've got it working, it's a done deal.

Tune in next week for Skimmer Talk. :lol:

Well, it's been almost 5 days and the overflow is working perfectly now. Looks like a 11/64" hole was the key. I'm glad too, because I was beginning to worry about this. The flow is powerfull too, it just pounds into the sump with some serious force. The buble tower is doing it's job though. The only bubles that get through are the small ones that get pushed out the bottom or overflow the top.

Anyway . . .

Now tuning this skimmer has been a real pain. The manual that came with it seems as if it was written for a different model, so I've been having no luck whatsoever.

But, I just went to their web site to see if I could find any more information, and viola! A new EV-240 users manual is online! After printing it out and reading it, it describes a different dial-in procedure than is in the manual they gave me.

So, tonight I start over with the dial-in and hope it works this time. This manual is also recommending the Mag18 for submersible pumps--instead of the Mag12 in the manual they gave me. Good thing I went with the Mag18!

BTW, I have about 2-3" of sand in the display and about 4-5" in the fuge. The SG is around 1.024 and the temp 76 deg. Once I can scrap up the $$ for the rock, I can start cycling the tank.

 

[conda]

Tank Update - We Have Live Rock!!!

Here are some pics of the tank as of tonight. The sand is in, and I just got back from That Fish Place in Lancaster where I scored some half decent live rock.

Nothing is aquascaped yet, I just dropped the rock in. I got 80 lbs of Fiji. Once this cures, I will add some of my good live rock from my 55 to get some color going.

The pictures are bad because I have no light in the tank, but here is what I could get:

Now that I look at it, 80 lbs looks like nothing in this tank.

 

[melev]

Hey, it's called a start. You're going to want 200lbs of LR total. LR, not base rock.

 

[exo]

After all your hard work im not sure I want to take a tank down that I have had running since 89. But I am getting the gitters due to the age of the tank. Its a oceanic tank and no leaks yet but I am getting real concerned especially with all the MH lighting over the years...Hope all your efforts are rewarded with hours of great viewing...

 

[smleee]

Been tagging along for quite a while! Wonderful build-up and tank.

One question: Does the overflow have teeth? I couldn't see any and wondered what you will do to keep the fishies out?

eee

 

[bheron]

A major milestone reached! Congrats on all the hard work. Looks great.

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6733110#post6733110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smleee
One question: Does the overflow have teeth? I couldn't see any and wondered what you will do to keep the fishies out?

No, not yet. I bought some gutter guard to glue on there but could not get it glued since there is nothing to glue to on the top or side of the overflow.

I bought some eggcrate the other day but it is white, so I'm not sure what I am doing yet. But something will be there eventually.

I should have had Ocean Image build me something there. Hind site.