Cyano

[pbetito]

I have the best/ worst cyano story ever so don't feel bad about not knowing what to do. The first tank I ever had I wanted my rocks to grow coraline algae so bad I bought every product people mentioned in the LFS in L.A. Finally it happened: This purplish/redish began to cover my rocks. I was growing it so well that it even covered my sand. One day while I moved a rock the "coraline" broke and a big piece of it got sucked into the powerhead. I was determined to not have that happen again! When I finally found out that my tank was full of a crappy, negative bacteria I was CRUSHED. I had bred the stuff for monthsand it covered every inch of my tank, so Justin I must disagree that you had the worst case ever possible Moral of the story is no matter how bad it seems it could be worse! KEEP ON TRUCKIN

 

[tiburone9162003]

ummm...that was bad lol,mine its not that bad lol...i already took out some of that stuff but still keep coming little by little...Question: if right now im useing distilled water and mixing with salt,can i change the water like buying from local lfs and start putting it in on every water change? maybe its my water that its making that cyano to be there?

 

[Nu2SW]

OK, We need to stop with all the Frowning, rolling eye faces and Answer his questions more respectfully.

Everyone has different opinions. We are all here to learn from each other. It would be much appreciated that when someone new or a veteran is asking a question, they are not talked down to.

Now, that I have that to the side.

I had a issue with cyano, But I could not figure out what was causing it. I was not overfeeding and I had great flow. I even increased flow, and with that it made the issue worse. I used chemi clean and It has not came back. Will it, No one ever knows. But it did its job and its been 7 months cyano free.

 

[Justin74]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8892147#post8892147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW
OK, We need to stop with all the Frowning, rolling eye faces and Answer his questions more respectfully.

Everyone has different opinions. We are all here to learn from each other. It would be much appreciated that when someone new or a veteran is asking a question, they are not talked down to.

Now, that I have that to the side.

When you say we, why dont you just say me? Another question where did I roll my eyes, frown or speak disrespectfully towards tiburone? Now that I have that to the side....

You want a frown I'll show you a frown <--thats a frown pal!
I do admit it was a lil frustrating, simply for the fact the chemiclean advice was coming from vets who I obviously assumed were aware of all the discussions encompassing this subject but also assumed they derived the same answers from the discussions as I did, I was wrong. But only in that regard heheh

Before you buy into the advice of using chemicals to solve pest algae, if your serious about what your pouring your money into. What is the stuff made of? Why does it work? What are collateral damages, if any and why? How long does it stay in the system?

By the way before Edwin asks me if I've even used it. Yes. Back when the only source of information I thought available to me was the hired help at the LFS. Did it work? Amazingly. The health of my tank afterwards? Seemed ok for about a year. Then it came back, then left again. Came back a year later(just about 7 mo ago) hard and thick. Just another side to the penny.

-Justin

 

[Nu2SW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8892356#post8892356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Justin74
When you say we, why dont you just say me? Another question where did I roll my eyes, frown or speak disrespectfully towards tiburone? Now that I have that to the side....

You want a frown I'll show you a frown <--thats a frown pal!

I am not pointing a single person out, Hence why I said "We". Because there has been multiple instance's with different people doing it to different new members or people that come here looking for help.

Sometimes, People take information given differently then others. So sometimes, People need to adjust the way they explain or show things to people. Now mind, that this may be a small incident, But I've seen other things also that shouldn't be said. Gif's and JPG's and then other people laughing at that.

There's 1
"It went away and never came back" Theres that line again


There's 2
What exactly are you expecting between yesterday and today :lol:

I dont need an example of what a frown is, I know. I am asking for people to treat people with a little respect. If something gets you frustrated, dont respond or respond later.

 

[Nu2SW]

DBL POST- DELETED

 

[Justin74]

I think we should stay on topic, or keep it to pm's.

Speaking of, heres a helpfull link:
Cyanobacteria control FAQ

-Justin

 

[tiburone9162003]

good info,thanx...

 

[Justin74]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8892147#post8892147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW

I had a issue with cyano, But I could not figure out what was causing it. I was not overfeeding and I had great flow. I even increased flow, and with that it made the issue worse. I used chemi clean and It has not came back. Will it, No one ever knows. But it did its job and its been 7 months cyano free.

From what I gathered Edwin from your previous posts, and open discusions at the meeting was that in fact was some of the issues that a few noticed. Was the lack of adequate flow you had in your 55, definately far from great. When you say you increased the flow, what did you increase it to? What was your tanks turn over rate? Also, how do you attribute the connection to adding more flow to making the problem worse?

"I am not pointing a single person out, Hence why I said "We"......

There's 1
"It went away and never came back" Theres that line again


There's 2
What exactly are you expecting between yesterday and today "

For not being pointed out, seems like I didnt get pointed out twice!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8892147#post8892147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by
tiburone9162003 good info,thanx...

Oh dont do that! I was just starting to get a rude and tyranical reputation against noobs going !!

JK, np man. I can empathize with your plight, nothing fun about cyano. Has made a alot of people pack up and call it quits out of frustration. Hang in there, it gets better, much better.

-Justin

 

[gabe3d]

My experience is very similar to Edwin. I had cyano in a small location in my tank on the sandbed. Didn't want to suck it up since it was quite thin and on the sandbed, so i put more flow at the location to blow it off. Few days after i had my rocks and corals caked with the stuff. I battled it for a few weeks daily by sucking it up with a pipette, but that got old real fast since i was spending 1-2 hours doing it and 7 of my corals have died. My tank prior to this incidence has been running for 4 years without any sort of algae problem. I did some research and bought some chemiclean, within two days of application the cyano dissapeared and did not come back after a year until the time i tore my old tank down and no casualties occured as well with the application.

HTH.

 

[Nu2SW]

at that time i had about 20x turnover in my 50.

What I did to increase flow in that area was adjusted my ph to get more flow pointing in that direction and it went everywhere.

I now have 25x in the tank with two rio620's.

 

[Justin74]

Honestly this is not a retalitory snide remark, but that is on the low side. You can see my turnover in my sig area, 1100 and 620 gph seios and a SQWD supplying over 700gph sporatic flow and I still have dead spots.Another thing is the flow with rios and maxi's is there coming in streams rather than laminar making it less encompassing and more point source.

Theres an easy explenation why it could've appeard to make things worse. First off, were talking about a unicellular organism. That is only visible to us because there are millions upon millions of them brooding/collecting. Now picture everyone of those as potential seed, the increased flow just blew thousands of those buggers all around the tank to populate. This is the case with most algaes and especially the nuicant ones we deal with in the hobby.

Like hair algae for example, careless manual removal will inadvertantly spread it if carefull attention isnot madeOne author/hobbiest made a great tip by mentioning upon removal have a cup with fresh water so you can rinse your fingers inbetween pulling it off and disposing of it outside of the tank each time before putting your hands back in to fetch more. This helps reduce the fibers being spread, as well as the nutrients released and squished between your fingers.

Same thing for cyano , removing it manually you want to get as much as possible without it breaking apart and spreading throughout the tank. A pipette would make me go nuts too with a big tank. I usually do my manual removal by cyphon and a 3/4 inch vinly hose and it works very well as it can massage into nooks and crannies of live rock without any obtrusive scraping. Then follow with some phosphate remover to basically starve it. Totally gone within a couple of days. Foolproof definitive method? No

-Justin

 

[Nu2SW]

One thing you mentioned that no one has said yet is a phosphate remover. Which is what algea feeds off of.

But what strikes me, is he is using distilled water. I dont know if that would cause it, But to distill water should be to take every single nutrient out of it. Hence pure water. Unless Im wrong, pls correct me on that.

My rios arn't a stream per say, but they are a fatter stream. The previous rios I had, Had a 3/4 inch water outlet. So it was a tream big time. The ones now Are like yours with the 2 1/2 water outlet so it makes it a FATTER stream.

 

[tiburone9162003]

maybe im gonna switch water and just buy it from local lfs,i have a 24g. more like 18g. lol so buying water from lfs would be little cheaper then the $1.49 per bottle of distilled water....

 

[Nu2SW]

I wouldnt do that much. that will cause too much of a stress isssue for your livestock.

If you look at it like this, You have a 24g tank. If you did 6 gallon water change every week. Which is 25%, then in a month you should of gotten all of the distilled water out by method of water changes. ( DID I FIGURE THAT RIGHT?) lol

Just stick to normal water changes and within a month you should be fine on water.

A 10% weekly and 25% every 2 weeks. it will be just fine.

 

[Nu2SW]

OH and yeah, totaly use RO Water. Even if its RO water from safeway from one of the inside store water dispensers, is better then TAP. That is what I was doing for a while.

 

[JenniLee]

what i meant its to switch water little by little with the one from lfs...

 

[Justin74]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8899005#post8899005 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW
One thing you mentioned that no one has said yet is a phosphate remover. Which is what algea feeds off of.

But what strikes me, is he is using distilled water. I dont know if that would cause it, But to distill water should be to take every single nutrient out of it. Hence pure water. Unless Im wrong, pls correct me on that.

Sparks first mentioned it. Best advice I think. But with a new tank really not necessary but would be a much safer holistic approach than the chemical alternative.

Distilled is pretty much the equivlent to RO, if combined with RO even better.

You may want to check the Coral Reef Shop, last I heard they were selling pure water for a rediculously cheap price. Like 50cents or 25, cant remember.

 

[Nu2SW]

I thought they were giving it away for free. May of changed.

 

[dots]

I have a theory on algae that I was discussing before:

Much like the "cycle" your tank goes through initially, I believe there are many other cycles as your tank matures and eventually becomes a stable enviroment.....due to biodiversity and balances in the food chain.......

I believe that there is an "algae cycle" thats a succession of algae that during time, and as your biodiversity becomes established....feeds and thrives of of the products in your tank.

I personaly believe that every tank will pass though all these "problematic nussiance" algae stages as it matures. However, the difference between the tanks is that as the "algae bar" rises,(My theory is that each succsessive algae is a little more complex and threrfore more difficult to get rid of), the tank must be more "in-tune" by having the correct equipment, flow, correct water, and chemical balances....if one is off and the algae gets what it needs....and thrives....thats why some people have problems with cyano and others don't.....their tank is the perfect enviroment for growing that type of algae.....if you change and correct the enviroment to the "optimal" conditions....by adding the correct clean up crew or not using tap water for instance, then it will go away until you reach the most mature and final type of algae.....bubble(valonia).......In my experience I find bubble usually thriving in older tanks (justin) and stuff like cyano in younger tanks (edwin)........

It is possible for one to not change what is wrong with the enviroment and it to take over the tank in extreme cases.

However, there have been additives like chemiclean found to help people get over that hump and clean up the mess for a time.......but even in tanks that havn't had it in a year......I will bet something has changed....and its the biodiversity level....either something is eating was makes that stuff grow or what ever was making food for that algae is long dead from a sort of "evolution" in the tank. On that note, using chemiclean may get rid of it now...didn't for me.......and your tank may not be maturing at the fastest rate,(who says, tank maturation is a given?), and it could come back and your in a cycle of buying this powder......thats what I would exactly want if I sold that stuff.....a regular customer for it.

I think that all tanks pass through these algael stages.....it all depends on your individual tank and if yours is a breeding ground for it or not if it will become a problem. If it is......fix the problem and it will go away.

The best way to get algae not to grow is get rid of the food or light........its easier to limit the food.......use RO/DI, have enough flow, skimmer, feed every other day(yes every other day.....have been doing it for quite a while and still have fat fish), and do regular water changes.

Yes.....25x turnover is on the lower end, and the difference between 20x and 25x is hard to see a direct corelation of difference by just changing the flow in such a small increment. Upping it from 20x to 40x would be on the order that your looking for, not to mention flow type, thats why people are using Tunzes, Seios or modded MJs........FWIW I am around 67X currently and still have dead spots, some SPS guys have over 100X....in fact thats why I went Barebottom, I got tired of the sand blowing all over the place. (BTW every time I increased the flow, my SPS growth rates increased)