Cycle Question

[zKRYt]

First, I apologize, I've been spamming this forum with posts...so many questions so little time! :lmao:. So I cured my rock in my tank for about a month / month and a half. 4 days ago I did a 100% water change, added live sand, and added Chaeto and pods. I checked ammonia 3 days ago and I was at 1.2ppm ammonia. I didn't bother testing nitrites and nitrates at the time. Today I check and it seems my ammonia is at 0 with nitrites at 1ppm and nitrates at 50ppm.

Is it possible that my system already had a cycle while the rock was curing? and this is just a mini cycle with the addition of live sand/pods? I was under the impression that with dry rock a cycle could take a month and it seems I'm almost through it. I wasn't really testing that often during the curing, but one of the few tests I did during that process my ammonia was up to 1.2ppm with nitrites at .2ppm and nitrates at 2ppm.

I'm going to test tomorrow to confirm these results, but I was shocked to see ammonia at 0 only 3 days after is was at 1.2ppm

 

[zKRYt]

Forgot to add I am also seeing diatoms forming on the sand and some of the rock. This did not happen while the rock was curing but there was a little bit of algae growth during the curing process.

 

[reddtiger88]

You probably shouldn't ever change 100% of the water. The diatoms are a natural part of the early cycle. Just keep checking the ammonia nitrite and nitrate and during the cycle don't change water. When its over change about 20%.

 

[zKRYt]

You probably shouldn't ever change 100% of the water. The diatoms are a natural part of the early cycle. Just keep checking the ammonia nitrite and nitrate and during the cycle don't change water. When its over change about 20%.

Noted for the next water change, the only reason for the 100% water change was for having the dry rock curing. I didn't want any of the phosphate that may have leached out or any of the dead organisms in the water for when I started to cycle

 

[reddtiger88]

Just use granulated ferric oxide to remove phosphates if it's a problem


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[zKRYt]

Just use granulated ferric oxide to remove phosphates if it's a problem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm going to do a phosphate test tomorrow as well. I hear BRS pukani dry rock can be quite the phosphate leach. I have a reactor I was planning on running carbon in, but if the phosphates get out of hand, I'll put that in a bag and purchase some gfo to put in the reactor. I was hoping the chaeto would handle the load, but we'll see

 

[reddtiger88]

Both wouldn't hurt.

 

[mcgyvr]

Is it possible that my system already had a cycle while the rock was curing? and this is just a mini cycle with the addition of live sand/pods? I was under the impression that with dry rock a cycle could take a month and it seems I'm almost through it. I wasn't really testing that often during the curing, but one of the few tests I did during that process my ammonia was up to 1.2ppm with nitrites at .2ppm and nitrates at 2ppm.

I'm going to test tomorrow to confirm these results, but I was shocked to see ammonia at 0 only 3 days after is was at 1.2ppm

Curing IS basically cycling... same thing.. Its letting dead material break down and allow growth of bacteria to process it..

Yes the tank (with just rocks) was cycling.. Now you added more dead material in the live sand... More than the current system could handle.. So ammonia levels rose and a new cycle has begun.. The fact that you have nitrites (and ammonia) means your tank is still cycling now and not safe for inhabitants..

There is also NOTHING wrong with changing water during cycling.. (but 100% is never a good idea as when things aren't submerged bacteria will start to die..)
I always recommend starting water changes as soon as nitrates start to show up to keep them from getting too high and you having to work harder to get them down after the cycle..
A vast majority of the beneficial bacteria is NOT in the water itself but attached to surfaces so water changes aren't removing much bacteria at all..

and yes.. on average a decent cycle can take a month or so.. But you didn't have dry rock anymore.. You had dry rock that has been live rock for a while now that had cycled for a month+ already..
So yes... expect a shorter cycle.. But still.. don't rush.. tank your time.. NOTHING good happens fast around here..

 

[ssick92]

Curing IS basically cycling... same thing.. Its letting dead material break down and allow growth of bacteria to process it..

Yes the tank (with just rocks) was cycling.. Now you added more dead material in the live sand... More than the current system could handle.. So ammonia levels rose and a new cycle has begun.. The fact that you have nitrites (and ammonia) means your tank is still cycling now and not safe for inhabitants..

There is also NOTHING wrong with changing water during cycling.. (but 100% is never a good idea as when things aren't submerged bacteria will start to die..)
I always recommend starting water changes as soon as nitrates start to show up to keep them from getting too high and you having to work harder to get them down after the cycle..
A vast majority of the beneficial bacteria is NOT in the water itself but attached to surfaces so water changes aren't removing much bacteria at all..

and yes.. on average a decent cycle can take a month or so.. But you didn't have dry rock anymore.. You had dry rock that has been live rock for a while now that had cycled for a month+ already..
So yes... expect a shorter cycle.. But still.. don't rush.. tank your time.. NOTHING good happens fast around here..

+1

However, OP mentioned that in 3 days their ammonia went from 1.2ppm to 0, and nitrites are only .1, so likely heading to 0 as well.

Due to the 1.5 months of curing the rock, as mcgyver said, you will likely only have a mini cycle which sounds like it is just about over.

Do a large water change or 2 to get your nitrates back down to a reasonable level, do a couple more tests over the next couple days to make sure your ammonia and nitrites stay at 0 and consider your cycle complete. If you want to be 100% sure, just add some pure ammonia to get the tank up to around 2ppm, and it should be at 0 within 24 hours.

 

[zKRYt]

Thanks, mcgyver and ssick92 for the clarification on the curing and cycling. I thought these were two separate processes. I thought curing was to get as much of the phosphate leaching out of the rock out of the water and and debris/dead stuff off as well; Didn't think it was enough to cause a cycle, but I guess since I had ammonia during the curing it did! That was the reason for the 100% water change...I'll refrain from that in the future.

I'm going to test again tonight to see where I'm at, and make sure the first results weren't a fluke. I'll update in an hour or so as to the results. I'll have to make a quick batch of rodi and saltwater tonight to get some of those nitrates out. I thought I still have a few more weeks :lmao: my new storage and mixing station isn't even hard plumbed yet.

and trust me, no plan on rushing here! my QT tank hasn't even come in yet. So I'm going to stick to my original schedule even if the tank is more prepared that I am to get stuff in it lol. Unless I could maybe add a CUC...do you quarantine a CUC?

 

[zKRYt]

so ran the tests again. Ammonia came back this time as .2 ppm. Nitrites still at 1ppm and Nitrates came back lower at around 30 ppm; Was in-between the 20ppm and 50ppm on the red sea test, so ball-parking it on that one.

I did just add a two pound piece of LR from the LFS to get some rock with coralline on it in the tank, curious if that might have added to the ammonia in the test. I'll just test again tomorrow and see where it is. In either case I'll be doing a 20% water change tonight to get rid of some of the nitrates.

 

[ssick92]

so ran the tests again. Ammonia came back this time as .2 ppm. Nitrites still at 1ppm and Nitrates came back lower at around 30 ppm; Was in-between the 20ppm and 50ppm on the red sea test, so ball-parking it on that one.

I did just add a two pound piece of LR from the LFS to get some rock with coralline on it in the tank, curious if that might have added to the ammonia in the test. I'll just test again tomorrow and see where it is. In either case I'll be doing a 20% water change tonight to get rid of some of the nitrates.

The rock could have contributed to your ammonia reading depending on how long it was out of the water for. Testing tolerances could also contribute.

I might have been mistaken before... Is your nitrite at 1 ppm or .1 ppm? If it is at 1 ppm then your cycle is still very much in process until that reading goes to 0. If it is at .1 ppm then you are much closer, and you likely won't even see it increase when your newly introduced ammonia gets cycled out.

In any case, good on your for being patient and your tank will be cycled without a doubt by the time you QT process is done. I have never QT'd a CUC and never had any issues, FWIW.

 

[zKRYt]

The rock could have contributed to your ammonia reading depending on how long it was out of the water for. Testing tolerances could also contribute.

I might have been mistaken before... Is your nitrite at 1 ppm or .1 ppm? If it is at 1 ppm then your cycle is still very much in process until that reading goes to 0. If it is at .1 ppm then you are much closer, and you likely won't even see it increase when your newly introduced ammonia gets cycled out.

In any case, good on your for being patient and your tank will be cycled without a doubt by the time you QT process is done. I have never QT'd a CUC and never had any issues, FWIW.

It's definitely 1 ppm, or more - its the highest reading the red sea kit will go, so could in fact be higher. If the cycle is still well underway, does it make sense to do the water change or should I wait a little longer? I have a batch brewing atm.

 

[ssick92]

It's definitely 1 ppm, or more - its the highest reading the red sea kit will go, so could in fact be higher. If the cycle is still well underway, does it make sense to do the water change or should I wait a little longer? I have a batch brewing atm.

It doesn't really matter either way. The only reason to do a water change during the cycle is if your nitrates are getting really high. It is much easier to lower nitrates from 10ppm to 5ppm than 80ppm to 5ppm. Your nitrites will go to 0 either way.

In scenario 1 above you only have to do 1 50% water change. In the scenario 2 you need to do like 5-6 50% water changes or 3 75% water changes. Whichever you prefer is up to you, but I know what I prefer.

 

[zKRYt]

It doesn't really matter either way. The only reason to do a water change during the cycle is if your nitrates are getting really high. It is much easier to lower nitrates from 10ppm to 5ppm than 80ppm to 5ppm. Your nitrites will go to 0 either way.

In scenario 1 above you only have to do 1 50% water change. In the scenario 2 you need to do like 5-6 50% water changes or 3 75% water changes. Whichever you prefer is up to you, but I know what I prefer.

Message received; will move forward with the water change once batch is ready :lmao: really appreciate the help!

 

[zKRYt]

OK so gave it two days and just tested again. Ammonia is again at 0. Nitrites are now at .2 ppm (seems kinda fast to get that low from 1ppm) and Nitrates continue to drop, now at 20ppm. PH is at 8.2, Temp 78.

I did not do a water change yet. All my materials to plumb the filling station arrived today so figured I'd just wait it out. But it is normal for nitrites to drop that quickly and for nitrates to drop on their own? I do have a DSB but I figured it would take time for that to mature to the point where is would be effective. Also have Chaeto and Amphipods/Copepods that I feed phytoplankton

 

[zKRYt]

There is also quite the diatom bloom so perhaps they are consuming the nitrates