decisions decisions ----

[snowstar]

OK - Gang - I've been sort of out of the hobby for just over a year now. Yes i have a 180 and 40 that are healthy as far as the fish and softie corals are concerned, but i have not been keeping up with the technology and trends. Maybe that's good! I know that I have reflected over the past year and I think that I may be changing my reef keeping philosophy on some aspects of the hobby.

I am still for massive flow - as long as it is the correct massive flow. And of course lighting is the other essential in the mix and as an old time reefer the term watts per gallon is a term I prefer BUT I do understand the concept of PAR... so I am still very much a fan of the MH & T5 combination lighting for most reef keeping scenarios to include a softie only tank, But for heat considerations alone I may shift to T5 only lighting - IF the T5 can penetrate to the bottom of a 24" tank without losing a lot of power/lighting capability. Everything else that i have always thought about technology is totally up for grabs.

The reason I am starting this thread, I'm in the process of moving the current 180 to a different location in the house to make room for some remodeling and re-sizing of my aquarium maintenance space. After the maintenance room is made larger, I will be installing a custom built (been sitting in a room now for just over a year waterless) acrylic 120 and then a few months later a custom built acrylic 140 or 240 adjacent to the 120. For now I need to decide on a new skimmer and hopefully someone here can help me decide - do I really want to use ozone, and a UV? Do I want to use a calcium and kalk reactor? I know that my previous ideas of reefing immediately put me into to the yes you idiot use the technology side of the hobby.

But - I have noticed over the years that as I kept the water more and more nutrient poor through technology, some of my corals suffered. most notably it became very difficult to keep mixed tanks healthy and elegance coral became almost impossible. Oh I could keep the corals but not all corals grew like mad - so I became a proponent of pick a tank sps dominant or lps & softie dominant but don't expect to keep everything in one tank.

So lets start with skimming and then work out cause I am still a fan of getting the proteins out....

Lisa

 

[coralreefer]

Re: decisions decisions ----

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10668586#post10668586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snowstar
So lets start with skimming and then work out cause I am still a fan of getting the proteins out....

Lisa

Glad to hear that part of your reef keeping philosophy hasn't changed didn't think it would though

Maybe Matt can chime in he probably knows more about some of the newer skimmers than I do. I've kinda kept up with high end skimmers but not enough to recommend something.
There's been so many new, and at first glance, good skimmers produced in the past year I have trouble keeping the names straight. :lol:
I know Matt likes H&S.

 

[firefish2020]

Got me on this one guys I still use the Coralife Superskimmers, but I will need a better system in a few months so I'll be listening in on this.

 

[fishmon]

I've been using Deltecs on a few of my installs lately and as far as EASE of adjusting and the skimmate they produce they can't be beat, also the cup is very easy to remove w/ a quarter turn along with an easy to remove lit. I like ASM and use them on my tanks they are a good price/easy great producing skimmer. I am also a fan of the super skimmers but the bigger models can be a pita to find a sweet spot adjustment and unless you keep the water level constant they overfill easy but I use them and sell a bunch of them with happy customers. Using a gatevalve on the deltecs offers precision adjustment that I haven't been able to touch on other skimmers. I will be switching my ASM to a Deltec on my home tank in the near future. I have ordered H&S for customers but never used them personally.

 

[jmccown]

I have been using an ASMG4X for almost a year now and I just recently installed a gate valve on it. It really hums now. So easy to adjust. I'd like to install a recirc pump eventually. I've also used the coralifes, they have a mind of their own. One minute they are running fine, the next minute they are overflowing. My ASM has NEVER overflowed. Unfortunately, ASM is about as expensive as I've gone. But I am happy with it. It's quiet and maintenance is very easy.

 

[MattG]

I guess I would ask what type of constraints do you have? Size, price,noise,etc..?

Overall I still like pin wheel skimmers for their ease of use, low power consumption and low noise. Recirculating and drain fed being priorities.

Many good brands but they vary greatly in price. I have not used or seen some of the newer models to the US (octopus, DAS, etc.)

The thing to remember about most of these skimmers is that if you spend two times the amount you will NOT get twice the performance. There is a price to performance ratio that quickly diminishes. Also many skimmers skim well if you find the sweet spot. Some are just much easier to find that spot. With that said, there is a huge difference on quality of construction.

For the money ASM is a very good bet. If you are willing to spend the dime H&S, deltec (I would stick with the AP series) and Euroreef. If you really want to spend some money there is bubbleking (I have never used or seen one in person).

Skimmers that use Eheims or aquabees are generally great performers.

The skimmer market is so much better now then what it was 5 years ago. It really makes it tough to pick one!

As far as the calcium/kalk reactor it just depends on your demand. If you need it then use them as they do make life simpler. Just as skimmers there are so many more to choose from now then years back.

 

[firefish2020]

I run the Tunze Ca Reactor on Rogers tank, we were told good things about it, small, easy to install, easy to maintain and balance out and we were not let down. However a bigger tank than a 125 would likely need an extension reactor which means more space in the sump is required. I also use the Kalk reactor as per Matts recommendation and it all runs quite smoothly unless we have 2 weeks of 94+ temperature, which is also no longer an issue. Jims right about the Super Skimmer, I wont use one without an auto top off unit (osmolator for me).

 

[snowstar]

OK -- fair enough - I did not put many spec's out there just what has changed with skimmers over the past year. I hesitate to say price is not an object because at some point it is.

I have been looking at deltecs I know many reefers who keep some some phenomenal tanks use deltec. To my knowledge they are one of the few companies out there that have implemented the "wet neck" technology to keep the skimmer clean and reduce the frequency that you have to break the skimmer down to clean it.

That said they are a needle wheel and while Matt is correct needle wheels by and large generally produce great skimmate at a greatly reduced power usage rate compared to say a beckett skimmer. I'm not 100% certain the needle wheel skimmer is the way I want to go. Some time ago, I talked to folks about how to create an auto shut off waste container for a needle wheel. Most folks seem to think that cannot be done in the way it can with a Beckett. What I mean is this - If my 3 gallon waste container gets full on the beckett I'm currently using the skimmer shuts off all bubble production- it will not overflow or anything else, it just quits skimming. Same for some of the "high powered" venturi skimmers there is no way to really shut them down save powering the skimmer off. That is a feature I have found to be worth it's weight in gold.... The mistake that I have made with the beckett skimmer is buying one that was way to over sized for the tank I put it on. The water was possible tooo clean. If anyone wants an explanation of that statement just chime in other wise I'll leave it at that....

The other thing that I am looking at is the ease of setting the skimmer up to run wet as opposed to dry. I have always had to really futz with the coralife super skimmer and with the venturi skimmers that i have owned to get them to skimm consistently pulling out a moderate tea color vs. a black coffee color. The beckett i have never had a great deal of trouble with setting it up either way. The whole wet vs. dry thing well that to me has been hashed over soo much and is probably best left as a preference....

So far most everyone has mentioned some variant of needle wheel - and I guess I can understand that. I had some hopes to hear from someone with one of the new recirculating becketts made by Andy @MRC or one of the PM Bullets....

If you know of a way to create an auto-shut off for a needle wheel please chime in ....


I hope to get to thinking about kalk and ca reactors..... vs 2 part solutions in the near future right now I just want to correctly size a skimmer because even though I used to say you cannot over skimmm welll I have completely changed my mind and yes yes you can over skimmmmm

L

 

[phljess]

If you know of a way to create an auto-shut off for a needle wheel please chime in

The only way I can think of is to shut down the skimmer using a floatswitch on the waste container or using a selonoid controlled valve.

 

[snowstar]

Fair enough Phil.. using a solenoid, float switch or combination might actually be the only way - but would that not be to trigger a pump shutoff? Allowing water to set in the mixing chamber? The way the shutoff for the Becketts' work is - that when the waste collector is full it only shuts the air off to the skimmer but water still passes through the skimmer so water never "sits stagnant" in the skimmer. All that said while I have not had a problem with any needle-wheel skimmer. I think that I am going to stick with a beckett style skimmer - but get one that is more appropriately sized for my tank. Either the PM bullet 2 or the MRC RC-2.... both are rated for tanks up to 250 gallons and so should get the water clean but not overly cleaned and stripped of cetain elements like magnesium.

 

[brian@sen]

A solenoid will work on an air line the same as on a water line. With a normally open solenoid on the air intake line air will pass until the valve is actuated by the float switch then no air flow but water from your main pump will continue to flow through the skimmer. Just make sure if you go this route get a normally open solenoid because they can get hot if run in the actuated state too long. A normally closed solenoid actuated to run open 24/7 probably would last less than a week.

 

[snowstar]

That makes some sense... particularly the part about the type of solenoid. I may have to look at how the "higher end" needle-wheel or pin-wheel skimmers work as far as feeding the skimmer vs. produce the bubbles and how easy it would be to add the solenoid. And really I have to wonder how long is too long before failure of the solenoid.... I really do not want to have to replace solenoids twice a year or more to make a pin-wheel shutoff the way a beckett can shutoff. Thanks for the tip though about the solenoid. So may be my mind is not completely made up on this one....

 

[LtPiper]

Speaking of needle wheels.... sorry hijacking here.... Where the heck can you find a decent needle wheel pump for a coralife 220 skimmer. I can't seem to find one anywhere.

 

[snowstar]

hey I think you can get them at premium aquatics the Ocean Runner 2700 or 3700.... I think I have also seen the Sedra needle-wheel pumps on their site. Check with Ron he may be able to order them for you .... shoot me a PM if you need model numbers.... but I'm pretty sure the OR2700 is more than enough pump for the 220 --- heck I think that was the pump I ordered for the Frankenskimmer project..... a couple of years ago....

 

[brian@sen]

Here is a thought maybe we are "over thinking" the air shut off for the skimmer. Relays, solenoids, float switches and longevity are always concerns! But if a skimmer is just pulling air in instead of being fed air by a pump could you just use a float valve in the overflow container to shut off air flow? In theory, the float should be too heavy for the suction to close the valve and when the float on the valve is raised by the skimmate the air flow will be shut off. No way for the skimmate to get pulled back into the skimmer, plus no worries of relays and solenoids over heating and/or sticking. I would think cleaning the float valve when you clean the overflow container would give years of service and even if 5yrs. from now the valve develops a small air leak it should still reduce the air flow enough to prevent proper skimming. So do you guys think this will work or am I just too far outside the box on this one?

 

[snowstar]

Hey Brian - that is essentially what the waste containers used on beckett skimmers do. Here is a picture of the waste container I have Waste Container Sorry it is not a better picture of the top of the container - but what happens is that when the skimmate reaches the bottom of the acrylic cylinder that houses the ping pong ball, a suction is created and the ball rises to the top of the cylinder and shuts off the air to the becketts. I could test the your theory - I think if I just put a barbed nipple spa part on the very top of the pvc cap on top of the waste container and then connect that to the needle wheel pump. But I'm really not sure because waste container is pretty air tight so I'm not sure if that would allow enough air to the pump -- I'll just have to test. It would be pretty nice if that works for all the folks that have needle wheel skimmers. I really think I'm going to stick with an appropriately sized beckett.... no more putting a skimmer for a 1000 gal tank on a 120 or 180.....:eek1:

 

[brian@sen]

If the container is to air tight you could possibly just drill a hole in the top to allow air in and if your float is properly set it should shut down air flow before the skimmate reaches that point. I would think a valve like this http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/va...y_name=6109&product_id=12596&variant_id=23077 mounted in the lid or side of the container would not allow the skimmate to reach the very top of the container or if you like the style you have now let me look at it and I can probably figure out a way to make one.

 

[fishmon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10815373#post10815373 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brian@sen
If the container is to air tight you could possibly just drill a hole in the top to allow air in and if your float is properly set it should shut down air flow before the skimmate reaches that point. I would think a valve like this http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/va...y_name=6109&product_id=12596&variant_id=23077 mounted in the lid or side of the container would not allow the skimmate to reach the very top of the container or if you like the style you have now let me look at it and I can probably figure out a way to make one.

ESU and Kent marine both make float valves too, they are all completely plastic. The only problem w/ the one in the link is the stainless steel wing nut on the adjustment wouldn't last.

 

[brian@sen]

Why would it not last on something that is only occasionally in contact with liquid? Stainless steel is what the impeller shaft is made of in the majority of all aquarium related pumps.

 

[firefish2020]

Uhooooh! Now the ugly truth about impeller shafts must be told.