Deep Sand Bed in Display tank and refugium?

MarineGirl411

MarineGirl411

New member
Hi everyone,
I need a little bit of help. I need to know if I should put a dsb in my main display as well as my refugium. I have all the sand to do it. I am going to be culturing pods in my refugium for my main display tank. I've read the articles on here about it, but can't find the advantages of having them in the refugium as well. I've read on about.com that you need to add sand sifting inverts to keep the toxic gas from building. Now this disagrees with the article posted on this website. So, does anyone know for sure what is the best set up? This will be a reef tank of course with the main display fish being a Mandarin Dragonet. I won't be adding him for at least a year so please don't get upset with me. I've read tons of articles on culturing pods in refugiums and separate tanks if necessary. So I am willing to put forth that effort to keep this beauty in my tank. Please let me know your opinions. Thank you.
 
I have a DSB in both main and sump/refugium ... IMO 2 DSB's are better than one as long as they are active.

From what I remember, Randy Holmes-Farley suggests not to have any sand stirring creatures when trying to do a DSB because it disturbs the anaerobic spots. Instead of sand sifters just get something like nassarius', which eat alot of junk in the sand bed.
 
if you have room i would work in a DSB in a bucket into the mix plus run a fuge for the pod.


dsb in a 5 gallon bucket is easy, cheap and it works. there a HUGE post on the advance topic forum. check it out.
 
Hi,
I was planning on doing both in the refugium+display. I would think it would add more security. Did you know Astrea Snails when they fall overm, they cannot get themselves back up so they drown? I just found that out. I don't see why people put them in their tanks. I mean sooner or later it's going to happen. =( What other things would you add in the refugium? Kase I read the article with the bucket of sand idea. It is a good idea, but I have no room. The sump takes up almost the entire bottom of the stand. I wanted to be sure to give a lot of room for a refugium.
 
from the imfo i gather about dsb the faster your water the better, so nothing will settle and will not built up of high levels of No3 or was that Ho3. well i hope you firgue something that's best for you tank:).

the hemit will take care of the snail, yeah that does suck when they do that :(
 
so how about having sand sifting inverts. does that help to keep the DSB active or it can be a PITA on a longterm.
 
i think no for dsb in bucket. but in your tank yes.
bucket of dsb can be change easy, they recommend about 2 years(denpend on the size of your system)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8463985#post8463985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenny77
so how about having sand sifting inverts. does that help to keep the DSB active or it can be a PITA on a longterm.
Click to expand...

IMO ... you either want to be turning your sand over so there are no nutrients trapped in there or you don't want to touch it at all.

I would recommend a shallow sand bed if you are going to keep sand sifters and a DSB if you aren't.

People do say that it is hard to do a DSB in a nano because you need a lot of sand ... it's true you should have at least 3.5 inches and even put a much finer layer of sand on the bottom and a fine one on top to help it already be compact on the bottom for those anaerobic spots. I have about 3-3.5 inches in both my main and refugium and I am thinking of adding another inch of sand.

Kase: I agree ... no matter what kind of sand bed you have you should have enough flow to sweep all the garbage off the top of the bed and allow it to be skimmed out before it even starts decaying/breaking down.
 
See this is where RC differs if you read their article on DSB. They say not to add sand sifting inverts. About.com says to add them. It's weird. I was planning on the dsb in both the refugium and the main display. I have 100 pounds of sand here to work with. Long story. Anyway, I've got a lot of sand to go around. My closed loop is going to provide a lot of flow. I've got a Quiet One 5000 closed loop to help take care of sweeping. It is connected to a Sea Swirl and Loc Line to split the GPH. I can also turn the pump down if I need to. My Return is the QO 3,000. I wanted to add a Goby and Pistol pair. Do you think that would pose a problem in the dsb?
 
When it comes to reefing ... listen to RC not about.com

No a yellow watchman goby and pistol shrimp (I'm assuming that's the pair you want) would not mess with a DSB ... my friend has a Yellow Watchman in his shallow bed and it rarely sifts (mainly to build a home for the pair), just waits for mysis.

Sounds like you'll have good flow! I would do about 4 - 4.5 inches of a DSB if you have alot of sand. You will see after some time layers of different sand coarsness develop in your tank.

I would recommend Nassarius' snails for a DSB because even though they cruise in mostly the top portion of the substrate for detritus, they don't disturb it nearly as much as other sand sifters. They also help move sand particles in a way that the fine ones make their way to the bottom where they can be utilized. I love these productive suckers!
 
How many Nassarius would you recommend? When do you recommend I put them in? Of course after cycling, but any other specific time? I was talking about a Hi Banded Goby with a Pistol shrimp, or any other type of goby with a pistol. I've seen a couple of them on here and in the stores. I love their interactions. It's awesome.
 
I'm assuming for the 40 gallon ... I have 5 in my 29 gallon; I like to keep them on the low side, because their not algae eaters, but always a few. They hardly ever get killed so they are hardy and speedy. So perhaps 7 ... I would add them when you're tank is fully cycled along with hermits and other cleaners... they will even eat invert molts as well :) Also add some to your refugium ... around 5.
 
I was told not to add hermits because they will kill the snails just to try their shell on. Then, discard them. Thus dead snails. What do you think?
 
Nassarius' are actually quite fast and they can submerge under the substrate pretty fast or climb up the walls ... I've seen a LIVE chase between my cortez and a nassarius and the nassarius got away clean!... however I have only lost 1 nassarius ever to a crab and that was to a dwarf hermit crab ...

Astrea snails are the ones most susceptible to death by crab or drowning.

... IMO the best/hardiest clean up crew comprises of the following

Tiger Trochus Snails, Nassarius Snails, Electric Blue Hermits, & Cortez Hermits.

So to answer your question I think you should still add both because you will need the hermits to take care of the LR and the snails to take care of the algae and the other snails to get all the crud off your substrate. They should all be busy enough with their responsibilities not to bother anyone. This will all help clean your tank during the cycle.
 
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fwiw, astrea snails probably fall over in the oceans reefs as well, it's part of life. I keep a 4 inch sand bed in my 55g, very little sand in the refugium, and lot's of sandsifters in the display. so far it's worked out great for my setup. the only critter i've thought about removing is the sandsifting starfish, but that's only cause he really doesn't seem to have alot of room due to the amount and sizes of live rock I'm utilizing.
 
there is so many diffrenet kainds of hemit crab that you can buy now. but i had bad exp with scralet red legs. they hunt and kill all of my snail for food or fun. they leave the shell?? wierd. so i just just rid of the hermit all together. and got alot of snail to do their/the job. but i never add any sand shifter to any of my system i ever had. imo keep the junk off or out and the sand and it will take care of the rest. replace with you notice the N0 is raising again.

you can always add sand to both your display and sump. as long as you have high flow in your sump adn you DSB should alway be place AFTER your skimmer. JMO (from inlet to filters media-fuge- skmmier-dsb- return).
about.com suck.they think they know but they don't. i will list to RC for anything reef related :)
let us know what you end doing. and good luck.
 
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