Diagnose my tank!

[bshumake]

Well, its been a couple months and still my problem has not resolved. Back in... november...october...(their all a blur lately) I noticed that the corals in my tank were looking stressed and stayed closed up or shrunken. This was midweek BTW, I did a quick salinity test and it was fine so I added a Mag250 with fresh carbon to perk it up and planned on testing conditions the next day. That next day came and all my readings were spot on. NH4, NO2, NO3, PO4 undetectable. pH 8.0-8.2 (always low ) Ca 450-500, Salinity 1.024. I was getting nice skimmate from the skimmer and had stopped O3 some time before this. The corals had all remained stressed and some were RTN'ing. I removed the ones I could (or were really concerned about) and noticed that some of my zoas were stressed and others were fine. My ric's are really fine. Their happy. So are my acans. As I was checking the skimmer I glanced at the temp gauge and BLAM! 89.9! I got a chiller and started cooling things off. I had never had a temp problem till then and thats because our AC went out during that time and the tank temp rose.
So now I have the chiller installed and set at 78. I lost a lot of my corals. Most all stonies, caps, etc. I managed to save some in my frag tanks, but I believe the damage was done already and still lost some that were moved.
So the tank has been at 78 since then and I have done 35G waterchanges every other day for about a week now and have had carbon going the whole time. Both measures to combat and/or purge any noxious chemicals produced in the big "boil". I'm using a green finger sinuaria and green sarco as indicator species and they still show signs of stress. They have not left the tank the whole time and while they show breif signs of relief (the sinularia actually looked normal for a day) they still are shrunken and look stressed.
Any ideas, suggestions, or thoughts on my problem here?
Are they all still shocked and recovering or on the way out? My coco worm threw a head at the time but has been out and feeding everyday since.
I'm at a loss!
B

 

[Rendos]

Crack in the outer glass shield of a MH bulb...UV rays?
Alkalinity levels?
Magnesium levels?
Copper levels?
With low pH, maybe high CO2, and low oxygen level?

 

[scarson61]

Lets see if we can help troubleshoot

Maybe the tank was treated with copper or some other medication before you got it?

I just read about if you use A RO that certain chemicals can pass through the membrane.

At the small end of the molecular size spectrum a number of compounds can pass through a reverse osmosis membrane to a significant extent and are, therefore, a concern to reef aquarists. These include carbon dioxide (CO2), ammonia (NH3), hydrogen sulfide (H2S, especially a concern with well water) and silicic acid (Si(OH)4, which is the uncharged and predominant form of silicate at pH values below 9.5). Ammonia that comes from chloramine in the water can be significant, and is one reason that RO/DI (reverse osmosis followed by deionization) is greatly preferred to RO alone in situations where chloramine is added to the tap water.

So if you don't have DI on the RO it might be a problem.
Hope it gives you a start.

 

[Sk8r]

You don't list alk. It should be 8.3 to 9.3. The fact that your ph remains low suggests there's a problem with alk, maybe. Also phosphate can cause problems and not show up on tests if it's bound up. Running phosban proved my tank had plenty that didn't show, but getting it out has helped a lot.

 

[bshumake]

Sorry about the Alk.
Its within normal range. I'll post that when I get home cause I wrote it on a notepad. As far as UV... I don't think so but don't know how to test either. Mg, don't have a kit for. Cu+, didn't test because IT SHOULDN"T BE IN THERE! If it is my inverts would all be dead correct? They all look fine. Low O2? Don't think so. The fish are all happy, eating well, and swimming like theres no problems. No rapid breathing that I've noticed.
I do run RO/DI Sanford and checked my TDS when I was doing the water changes. TDS with the DI pass through was zero.
Sk8r- I used a new PO4 remover by Aqua Blue a couple months ago. No harmfull effects when I used it. I can always do it again. It does caution not to overdo it because it will leach the PO4 out of the coral tissue.
Thanks everyone for the help. If anyone would like to come over and have a look please feel free.

 

[MarineFlake]

Re: Diagnose my tank!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8934893#post8934893 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bshumake
I was getting nice skimmate from the skimmer and had stopped O3 some time before this...I have done 35G waterchanges every other day for about a week now and have had carbon going the whole time.
B

-Restart O3. With salt water the affects of high temperatures are far greater than on fresh water with reference to Dissolved Oxygen. DO becomes scarce in the upper 80's so its my guess that a couple days (or more, you didnt specify) at 90 degrees would cause some serious DO depletion. It is odd the fish seemed ok during this though if your not looking for signs you may have missed them.
-Stop the wc madness. If your params are good, just causes softies to want to shed constantly which can give you a 'false reading' if your using sinularia or the like as an indicator.
-Relax on the carbon. High temp won't necessarily produce noxious chemicals, high amounts of Taco Bell on the other hand..
-Can't find any info on this Aqua Blue PO4 remover. Check and see if it leaches aluminum. I had the same results after running Seachems PO4 remover and it damn near killed my prized toadstool. (Had blotchy white spots (bleaching)) I would use only something well known to *not* cause problems or nothing at all if you don't have a PO4 issue. This is not the time to experiment.
My advice, GL.

 

[Reefdiver77]

Any parasites you have noted? Just a thought.

 

[bshumake]

pH= 8.0
alk= 2.0 meq/L
All readings are via Seachem testkits.
pH is low, I know. Natural seawater (according to insert) is 2-3meq/L with aquaria idealy being 4-6meq/L. I was wrong, my alk is low. I'll get that back up.
The skimmer continues to make nice skimmate with or without O3. I'll discontinue the C and work the O3 back in. Thanks Marine, and everyone else for the help.

 

[Sir Knight]

I would also test the saltwater you are making to see if the Alk is in normal range. With the amount of water changes you are doing it should be a lot higher then that. Could be a bad batch of salt. Also check the new saltwater for Calicum and Meg. If it is normal you have another problem because based on your wtaer changes you have replaced more then 100% of your water. something may be leaching acids into the water in your tank.

Also if your house is tight that will cause your Ph to be low (excess CO2). to see if this is the case take some water out in a gallon jar go outside in the open air run a air stone a pump in the water for about a 1/2 hour or so and see if the Ph goes up. If it does that is your problem. 8.0 is a little low but not that bad

90 degrees is high but it would not cause an instance disaster unless it was over a week or so.

Any PO4 remover as stated already, that contains aluminum will cause trouble.

When you reduced the temp did you do it slowly or did you just bring it down in a couple of hours if in a couple of hours that could be the problem. The same would hold true if you took the corals from that high temp and moved them to another tank with temps in the 70's without a long period of acclimation to the lower temps.

I also agree that RO water is not the way to go. RO/DI is much better. That is why I always say that TDS should be 0.

I always run carbon in my tanks have been doing it for over 15 years. If you are running carbon for the first time and your water had a yellow tint to it before you will also stress your corals because the cleaner water will let more light into the tank. With softies I always say use it. The problem with some brands of carbon is they leach PO4 into the water. what brand are you using?

 

[Sir Knight]

I would also test the saltwater you are making to see if the Alk is in normal range. With the amount of water changes you are doing it should be a lot higher then that. Could be a bad batch of salt. Also check the new satltwater for Calicum and Meg. If it is normal you have another problem because based on your wtaer changes you have replaced more then 100% of your water. something may be leaching acids into the water in your tank.

Also if your house is tight that will cause your Ph to be low (excess CO2). to see if this is the case take some water out in a gallon jar go outside in the open air run a air stone a pump in the water for about a 1/2 hour or so and see if the Ph goes up. If it does that is your problem. 8.0 is a little low but not that bad

90 degrees is high but it would not cause an instance disaster unless it was over a week or so.

Any PO4 remover as stated already, that contains aluminum will cause trouble.

When you reduced the temp did you do it slowly or did you just bring it down in a couple of hours if in a couple of hours that could be the problem. The same would hold true if you took the corals from that high temp and moved them to another tank with temps in the 70's without a long period of acclimation to the lower temps.

I also agree that RO water is not the way to go. RO/DI is much better. That is why I always say that TDS should be 0.

I always run carbon in my tanks have been doing it for over 15 years. If you are running carbon for the first time and your water had a yellow tint to it before you will also stress your corals because the cleaner water will let more light into the tank. With softies I always say use it. The problem with some brands of carbon is they leach PO4 into the water. what brand are you using?