difficulty maintaining SPS in 20H

[super-cichlid]

Well, the subject says it. I can't for the life of me get any sort of SPS to grow or live for that matter in my 20H. My setup is as follows ( I can post pics if anyone wants/needs them. I am at work now so if yes I'll post when I get off of work):

2 x 65W 420/460nm Actinic
1 x 175W 12K MH

20H display
2 x A. ocellaris
1 x Coral Beauty angel
1 x Fire shrimp
2 x turbo snails
4 x astraea snail
4 x blue legged hermit crabs
1 x feather duster worm
1 x hammer coral
1 x candycane coral
1 x green button polyp colony
1 x green star polyp colony
3 x mushroom colony
1 x yellow sebae anemone
40ish lbs LR
1 1/2" - 2" Sand Bed

20H Sump
1 x 65W dual Daylight PC for refugium
1 x 200W heater
1 x 150X Backup heater
1 x AquaC Urchin Skimmer
1 x ~10 lbs LR rubble filter
1 x refugium w/ ~20 lbs LR, Macro algea, clam
1 x Mag 18 return pump



The Mag 18 returns water through 4 nozzles in each corner in the display. I was using an Eheim 1260 with 2 nozzles, but there wasn't enough flow.

Is lighting color temp wrong? On most tanks, it looks like people are using at least a 15K - if not 20K - bulb PLUS actinics. is the MH too far away from the tank at around 16" above it?
Everything else is doing wonderful under these lights.

I add trace elements and Ca once a wwek after I do a 10%-20% water change.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[Rivenjim]

i guess this is a perfect question for me.. i would have to say get rid of the actinics and get a 250w halide. you need really good water conditions so i would get rid of 1 of your fish cough cough the coral beauty(angels known for eating polyps off of sps). start dripping kalk to replace water in your sump(i think kent marine make little dosing drip bottles).

 

[Lagger]

Why would he have to get rid of his actinics? Understandibly the angel may have to go :hmm5: But thats a 50/50

You seem to have an ideal set-up for a 20, not sure why you wouldn't be able to keep SPS. Have you tried Monti's first? Or straight Acro's? Assuming your water aparm's are fine, not sure why you wouldn't be able too............Maybe the anenome is releasing something the SPS doesn't appreciate

I keep a Monti Cap and Monti Digitata under 2x65 PC's on my 20 and they're growing. And a crocea clam :hammer:

 

[Rivenjim]

i would get rid of actinics and upgrade the halide then just go with a higher kelvin rating. and i cant belive that you keep a clam under 130w of pc. are they 2 '' under the light?

 

[GotSalt?]

i keep monti under my 2x65 too in my 20 but that is bout the only SPS i can get to stay alive

 

[Lagger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8428634#post8428634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rivenjim
i would get rid of actinics and upgrade the halide then just go with a higher kelvin rating. and i cant belive that you keep a clam under 130w of pc. are they 2 '' under the light?

Believe it, it's about 5" from the waterline. Nice & healthy.

How would a higher K rating than 12 help his growth? 6-10 is optimal, is SPS different for some reason besides color intensity?

 

[Fin McCoul]

I keep pocillopora, montipora (cap and digitata), millepora, seriatopora, miami orchid and various lps and softies in my 20H. I wasn't experiencing much growth until I added a fuge. The main problem was PO4. I wasn't over feeding, it was just my rock leeched PO4. That could affect your growth. I would add more snails and crabs (I have 20+ and 20+ crabs). I had a Coral Beauty that kicked the bucket recently, but before that it never touched my corals. But that is a luck of the draw thing. The only thing is the CB expels so much waste for that size tank. You might measure your PO4. Also, for CA and ALK I use Walt Smith Fiji Gold. I am really skeptical about that kind of stuff. I just mix in 2 tsp twice a week and CA and ALK are always great. If you don't use that I wold drip Kalk. Good Luck!

 

[cee]

I see no mention of alkalinity, which is very important for SPS. Is it stable and within an acceptable range? 175 W MH should be good, but I suspect your 12k lamp doesn't have very high PAR. Also, it's pretty high off the waterline. Remember, if you double the distance between the coral and the light source, the intensity drops by 1/4, so if you reduce the distance by 1/2 you'll get 4 times the intensity. I used to keep lots of SPS in a 90 under 175 W MH w/o any problems until I upgraded my lighting and tank size. Also, the actinic supplementation really only helps with the appearance of the corals and isn't necessary. Keep playing with it with some inexpensive frags and you'll eventually get it figured out.

Dave

 

[Mchava]

okay here is what I recommend and what I preach to people when they want to set up a sps tank. Here are the 3 major rules of sps tanks. Dont let someone tell you that 175 is not enogh light.

1. Water quality. I dont care how much light you put on a tank if your water quality is not there then you will never get what you want.

2. Better flow. Here is why, if you dont have enogh flow then your skimmer will not skim the stuff out and your water quality will suffer.

3. Lighting. I put this at the verry end for areason and some will disagree. I have a 90g tank running on one 250w MH 14k and my colors are awsome. Reason for good color, becuase I consitrate all of my efforts on getting excellent water quality.

Can you post numbers of your tank and what test kits. Then I might be able to help. Keep your lighting its fine for your tank.
ph:
no3:
p04:
cal:
alk:
temp range:

 

[BLKTANG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8429567#post8429567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mchava
okay here is what I recommend and what I preach to people when they want to set up a sps tank. Here are the 3 major rules of sps tanks. Dont let someone tell you that 175 is not enogh light.

1. Water quality. I dont care how much light you put on a tank if your water quality is not there then you will never get what you want.

2. Better flow. Here is why, if you dont have enogh flow then your skimmer will not skim the stuff out and your water quality will suffer.

3. Lighting. I put this at the verry end for areason and some will disagree. I have a 90g tank running on one 250w MH 14k and my colors are awsome. Reason for good color, becuase I consitrate all of my efforts on getting excellent water quality.

Can you post numbers of your tank and what test kits. Then I might be able to help. Keep your lighting its fine for your tank.
ph:
no3:
p04:
cal:
alk:
temp range:

I agree 100%

 

[super-cichlid]

Thanks for all the replies!

Sunday is the day I usually do parameter check, but I'll check it tonight after work. Though I need to go by the LFS and get a POX test kit. I didn't realize that POX's could effect SPS's so much.

As far as inhabitants go, I quit trying the SPS coral type before I got the angel, but I have never seen him biting at anything other than the food I put in. The 4 astraea snail I listed are new too along with the amenone (introduced 2 weeks agon Sunday). Well after my last unsuccessful SPS attempt.

With the lighting, at first one of my ideas about the acros and monti's I'd tried (and subsequently failed with) was they were getting bleached out by the intensity of the light. I thought I had too much. Think I should move the MH down?

I also cranked up the flow this AM. On that point, what is too much flow? I guess I have never really figured out what was a high flow rate and a HIGH flow rate. I f that makes any sense.

Oh, I'll get some pics posted here in the near future. Visuals are always helpful.


Thanks again for all the help, everyone.

 

[Jeepman3sk]

I'm just tagging along b/c I seem to have some of the same problems. But with a 29g and 250 DE MH 10k. I think my clam is sucking up all of my CA from the water. I hope this will answer both of our problems good luck.

 

[super-cichlid]

Here are the photos of the tank:

 

[super-cichlid]

 

[super-cichlid]

FYI, all the wiring has been cleaned up and like I said, the return nozzles have gone from 2 to 4. And the flexible tubing has all been switched to PVC.

Parameters:

Temp: 79.5 - 81.5
Nitrates: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Ammonia: 0 ppm

The phosphates and kH I didn't pick up the test kits for. I'll get those posted tomorrow.

Thanks again for the tips, suggestions!

Andy

 

[Sonics Big B]

I think Alk, PH and Ca readings are needed to give any kind advice.

 

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

sweet...

 

[SuperNerd]

Yes, please post Alk, Ca, pH...and maybe even Mg. Ideally these should all be consistently monitored.

 

[super-cichlid]

Well the pet shop didn't have a kit for phosphates, but my kH is 8 degrees +/- 0.1 degrees, I'd say. It should be somewhere around 8-10 degrees, correct???

I'll find a PO4 kit somewhere and post the results.

And I'll post some updated pics too. THe setup has changed a bit since the tank has been moved.


Andy

 

[BLKTANG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8435838#post8435838 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by super-cichlid
Here are the photos of the tank:

Love the bottom.

The bottom of the chick on pic #2.