Dino's......Help before I give up.....

[JG1]

What are you doing to oxygenate your water? Are you running a nice-sized protein skimmer with access to a fresh source of air? Do you have plenty of air flowing into your overflow lines?

I agree with the comments about dripping kalk. I'm a big believer - just make sure that nothing can cause you to overdose the tank all at once.

I have a IN-100 skimmer with a mini-airtstar pump on it. It skims a ton and oxygenates that water plenty

Hi there John, after my post yesterday, I was left rather bothered about your situation. Your setup for me is beautiful. Equipment wise your tank for me has the best of everything. So to see such a system let down by Dinos really bothered me.Anyway, I looked up Dinos again, and came to this article:http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-i-beat-dinoflagellates-and-the-lessons-i-learnedLooking at the article, it is clear to me, that the author managed to deal with the Dinos in a very targetted and multi point approach.I honestly think you should try the method exactly as described.I can tell you that I did push my pH very much higher than 8.4, I dosed Hydrogen peroxide, I carried out blackouts and eventually dosed FM Ultra Algae X. But what I didnt do was try the method described in the article in the multiple approach way.I really think you should try it. I will end this by saying that with pH at or above, 8.4, a 3 day blackout, and even dosing of H202; your corals should be fine. Just be sure to to maintain Alk and oxygenate the tank extremely well.Good luck and let us know how it goes. Sahin.

Thanks man, I'll check the article out

Have you had your top-off water checked?

I have a 4 stage spectrapure unit that's been running since December. The TDS after the membrane measures at 1ppm and after the DI, it measures 0ppm.

I haven't changed any other the filters yet because the water pressure going in has barely dropped which would indicate bad prefilters, and the TDS is still 0 coming out.

I dunno...

honestly, as some have said ... all it takes is a week or two of aggressive maintenance ...

I am not sure why no water changes, if any reason for this, please enlighten me

I would run GAC, and GFO [ GFO depending on set up, if bactrioplankton, then no GFO] you want to lower DOCs.

Have ALOT of salt water ready.

turn off return pump, and socks on the drains.

with return off, get in the tank and remove the dinos as much as you can. specially from the frags.
then take a MJ1200 power head, and clean all rocks, and corals and ... [alot of detritus settles where rock and sand meet, also within the dinos ! so do BLAST them all]

then do a water change [siphoning out sand and or dinos freely swiming], and turn return back on, and collect all loose pieces,

they day after, do the same, cleaning the sock first.

the reason they grow so well is they block flow within themselves, collect detritus and fuel themselves to grow ! aggressive blasting them alone would even lower their growth rate !

lastly, wish you the best, and this is part of the hobby too you will enjoy your algae free reef MUCH more after getting rid of this Issue j

What I was doing was basting the dio's off with a turkey baster, putting my voretechs in NTM, and letting the filter sock catch all the crap that was in the water column. I guess I could directly siphon them out but there's just so much of it.

Hi bro
This is a sad thing!!
But please don't say ur gonna give up coz there is a reason we are humans and they are micro algae. Right?
So fight it, there are so many suggestions that have been floated on this thread. Read em try the one that you think is most reasonable.
Don't quit water changes. Do even a 5% daily water changes.
I'm pretty sure its the Aquavitro fuel you had added. It has definitely fueled the dinos
Run GFO
Run Activated carbon (good grade like Rowa or Tropic Marin)
Test your DI water. (check it with 2 different TDS meters to avoid errors)
Over skimming. (add/borrow an additional skimmer if you can accommodate it)
Lower temperature (24-25 deg C)
Reduce lighting period
3 day black out
Test for Silicate
24 hour lighting in Refugium
Algae scrubber
More flow
Oxygenation
Ozone addition.

Hope you will try the above less drastic steps before u do something radical.

Your coral investments are pretty staggering. Why don't you try to set up a good QT tank ASAP with good flow and lighting. With some eggcrate stands and transfer/frag as many SPS or other corals into it. Being freshly made saltwater and low in nutrients the dinos might be killed off. Then once uv won the battle (im sure you will) transfer them to the main display (minus the bases)

Really feel for you. It's frustrating, but dont give up. I'm sure you will win the battle.
All our best wishes are there for you.
Cheer up and fold up ur sleeves bro. Battle time!!
:uzi: Die Dinos....DIE :hammer:

I'm gonna try my best to beat it.

JG Call me you are chasing your tail. All the things you are doing is making your problem worse. I am not going to post anymore here but give me a call, your problem isnt a big deal at all.

Dave, i will call you tomorrow evening. Thx!

Do you blast your rocks often or as part of your husbandry? If not, then that is part of the problem. I never basted my rocks and I ended up with dinos at the 1.5 year mark.

What have you done lately???

-dan

Yes I do, about once a week I blast the rocks and have the vortechs push the detritus through the overflows into the socks.

Hey JG, I've noticed your posts for a long time and even noticed your ZEO forum postings in the earlier days of your tank.

You have really nice corals, but maybe they are so colorful because all the food you've been giving them (and been feuling the dinos). Those pics you posted are not really that bad. I don't have the answer of how beat them, but I do know there is a lot of anecdotal information floating around (see dzhuo's signature). Although this will not likely help you, I quoted some good information, at least IMO; and, in general, are good things to do whether or not you are dealing with dinos.







In addition, I recommend having your sump clean of detritus.



Listen to this man, he has a beautiful tank. IMO TDS = 0 is misleading. Change all filters, especially the DI resin--even if the resin hasn't changed colors. Heck, add a second DI canister.

Keep in mind I blasted the rocks the night before those pics were taken...this stuff coated EVERYTHING prior.

I think (know?) I've fed the tank too heavily. My corals always were pale and uncolorful so I feed heavy twice a day and started using supplements. Color has improved, but at a price it seems. I've stopped dosing everything, and only feed roggers reef food now. Still twice a day, but a little more conservative than before.

My sump is pretty clean. I do get a decent amount of detritus buildup on the rock which I was blowing off once a week. Even though I fed heavy, my PO4 was always 0.01 or lower, and NO3 <.3ppm

 

[JG1]

..........

 

[apt220]

PO4 and NO3 are low because the dinos are using them up.

Oh and "aeration" does not equal oxygenation.

 

[JG1]

PO4 and NO3 are low because the dinos are using them up.

Oh and "aeration" does not equal oxygenation.

Well I have the mini airtstar going in the sump, and in the DT are two MP40's going full blast.

PO4 and NO3 have been like that as well before the dinos arrived. I'd say for a few month prior they were both just about 0

 

[Dog boy Dave]

John, One fo the pitfalls of running a high nutrient system is walking the thin line between feeding just enough and too much. At this point your system is approaching the high end. You are still good as your corals are healthy. However the display portion of your system has become one of the nutrient rich areas "sump" if you will and is now showing unpleasant flora growth. In the long run , when you run a high nutrient system you want to make sure that you display is not the most nutrient rich portion of your system. Right now however be happy that the dinos are using up the excessive nutrients and dont do any thing at this point to interfere with that. Decrease feeding, coninue water changes and let the tank continue to cycle and clean itself up. In the long run you might consider some hardware adjustments and reviewing your fish list but for now decrease nutrient import and continue to increase export with water changes. If your makeup water is clean your system will clean up.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Hey JG, I've noticed your posts for a long time and even noticed your ZEO forum postings in the earlier days of your tank.

You have really nice corals, but maybe they are so colorful because all the food you've been giving them (and been feuling the dinos). Those pics you posted are not really that bad. I don't have the answer of how beat them, but I do know there is a lot of anecdotal information floating around (see dzhuo's signature). Although this will not likely help you, I quoted some good information, at least IMO; and, in general, are good things to do whether or not you are dealing with dinos.







In addition, I recommend having your sump clean of detritus.



Listen to this man, he has a beautiful tank. IMO TDS = 0 is misleading. Change all filters, especially the DI resin--even if the resin hasn't changed colors. Heck, add a second DI canister.

Yea what these guys said as well John....

 

[JG1]

John, One fo the pitfalls of running a high nutrient system is walking the thin line between feeding just enough and too much. At this point your system is approaching the high end. You are still good as your corals are healthy. However the display portion of your system has become one of the nutrient rich areas "sump" if you will and is now showing unpleasant flora growth. In the long run , when you run a high nutrient system you want to make sure that you display is not the most nutrient rich portion of your system. Right now however be happy that the dinos are using up the excessive nutrients and dont do any thing at this point to interfere with that. Decrease feeding, coninue water changes and let the tank continue to cycle and clean itself up. In the long run you might consider some hardware adjustments and reviewing your fish list but for now decrease nutrient import and continue to increase export with water changes. If your makeup water is clean your system will clean up.

Dave,

Makes sense. And you are correct, I do run a higher nutrient system such as the one you have.

Do you think a couple 30g water changes are in order, or stick with a 10% week approach for now?

What hardware adjustments are you speaking of?

 

[chrishayes]

Hmm so what youre saying is that all the articles and anecdotal dino fixes are garbage and 100% opposite of what he should be doing? Geesh John, good luck, my head would be spinnin right now if I were you!

 

[apt220]

Hmm so what youre saying is that all the articles and anecdotal dino fixes are garbage...

I wouldn't call it garbage, but there is no proven way to get rid of these guys and it is obvious that certain methods work for some, while they don't work for most everyone else.

...100% opposite of what he should be doing?

I never said that he should be doing the opposite, but as I stated above, things that work for some, don't work for others. I'm sure the OP can attest to that. I'm sure he has looked into all the different methods.

Geesh John, good luck, my head would be spinnin right now if I were you!

Exactly. All these recommendations floating around, but nothing proven to work. I'm sure that if he tried everything that everyone recommended, and none of it worked, he'd quit the hobby for sure.

Blind leading the blind with obvious anecdotal information...

With all that being said, I don't have a solution for him. Somehow the scales need to be tipped so that the desired microorganisms will regain foothold of nutrient export in the tank. Sorry for stating the obvious...

John, if you are "aerating" your tank with air that is composed of mostly nitrogen and carbon dioxide, then you are not effectively "oxygenating" your tank. That is what I mean when I say "aeration" does not equal "oxygenation".

I haven't changed any other the filters yet because the water pressure going in has barely dropped which would indicate bad prefilters, and the TDS is still 0 coming out.

You should to change your filters earlier than that. Pressure is not a reliable way to measure; and IMO TDS 0 is misleading. Change your filters early and often.

When was the last time you changed any of those filters/resins?

 

[rkaires]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1962886

 

[acroholicreefer]

Here is how I got rid of Dinos. I worked for my but there is no guarantee that it is going to work for everybody.

Dose 1mL per 10g TSV of Hydrogen Peroxide once a day for 5 day. Keep Magnesium and Calcium levels elevated before dosing H2O2.

It has been a month since I last dosed and no signs of dinos returning.

7-27-2011

9-07-2011

The first picture is on 8-14 and the next three are the results after dosing. Dinos have been eliminated at the moment.

Acropora Microclados

Before Dosing H2O2 on 8-14-2011

After Dosing H2O2 on 8-23-2011

8-29-2011

9-02-2011

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Hmm so what youre saying is that all the articles and anecdotal dino fixes are garbage and 100% opposite of what he should be doing? Geesh John, good luck, my head would be spinnin right now if I were you!

Yep pretty much. Not all of it, just most of it. Look at my system and if you want something like that I can tell you how to do it. It didnt happen because i followed the bad advise or followed every stupid trend that i see makes up about 90 percent of the posts on this forum. When John calls me I will tell him what i do that works. Your response is why i told him i wont be posting much on here. I dont really want to ague or listen to a bunch of newbs tell me what they heard might work. Most of it is crap. I understand the procedures i use to maintain my systems. I dont do what i heard might work because of some voodoo magic and when i give advise i speak from experience. I share what works for me and has been working for me since 1987 when i started trying to learn how to maintain inverts in a captive environment. Its not heard to run a clean tank. Put in less than what goes out. The tank will always clean up. The hard part is walking the thin line between moving towards clean with all your nutrients in transit and keeping enough available for the coral. There are other ways to runs systems. I can show that my way works long term. When I meet someone who does it a different way I respect their system and their technique. But, until I see their results its just one more voice in the wind.

 

[acro-ed]

Yep pretty much. Not all of it, just most of it. Look at my system and if you want something like that I can tell you how to do it. It didnt happen because i followed the bad advise or followed every stupid trend that i see makes up about 90 percent of the posts on this forum. When John calls me I will tell him what i do that works. Your response is why i told him i wont be posting much on here. I dont really want to ague or listen to a bunch of newbs tell me what they heard might work. Most of it is crap. I understand the procedures i use to maintain my systems. I dont do what i heard might work because of some voodoo magic and when i give advise i speak from experience. I share what works for me and has been working for me since 1987 when i started trying to learn how to maintain inverts in a captive environment. Its not heard to run a clean tank. Put in less than what goes out. The tank will always clean up. The hard part is walking the thin line between moving towards clean with all your nutrients in transit and keeping enough available for the coral. There are other ways to runs systems. I can show that my way works long term. When I meet someone who does it a different way I respect their system and their technique. But, until I see their results its just one more voice in the wind.

I like your style!

 

[steevareno2002]

I got em too but only on the glass and powerheads. Good luck with yours. I mostly just scrub and remove but they grow pretty fast and are UGLY!

 

[chrishayes]

Man, I think everyone here INCLUDING me the freakin noob, is tyring to help. Dinos arent something that happen to every tank. My first "reef" was in 1994 and to date, ive had dinos ONCE. So all one can do is look to articles written on and anecdote of how someone else got through it.

THis is the attitude that keeps people away from Reefcentral. I like your style too, rather than just telling your methods as a seasoned reefer, youll pm them in private and bash those that are doing nothing but creating wind...TRYING TO HELP WITH THINGS THAT WORKED FOR THEM AND ARE WRITTEN IN ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY THIS SITE! sorry this had to happen.

You know what, honestly after rereading my comment I can see where that couldve been taken out of context. I was really asking if what the few of you guys were saying was right, that doing the exact opposite of what articles I had read when I went through it, had said along with tons of others threads I read on it, was really the way to go. Plus I meant the same as what youre saying now, that with all the conflicting info that it would be tough to chose a direction. I appologize for that if you took it as I was saying my way was right and your way was wrong. Thats the last advice id ever give and if you read through all my posts I never once said, THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT. All I said was what I did to rid myself of them and even then I wasnt sure what actually did the trick as I dont think it matters as long as you try something and not give up.

 

[acroholicreefer]

People should just post their experience on how they have eliminated dinos with pictures to prove it. Other than that, it is just voices floating in the wind. We are all adults here and I hope we can have a great time by sharing our experiences.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Dave,

Makes sense. And you are correct, I do run a higher nutrient system such as the one you have.

Do you think a couple 30g water changes are in order, or stick with a 10% week approach for now?

What hardware adjustments are you speaking of?

If your makeup water is clean then the more water changes you are willing to do the better. I dont really know enough about your hardware, flow and fishload to comment on specific hardware changes without asking you a lot of questions. I dont find this a pleasing format to do that in. My aplogies for that. Give me a call, we can talk.
Regards
dave

 

[oscarslr]

Any updates?

 

[davskee]

I never tried using this but a LFS told me to try Kordon Ich-Attack on a friends tank but he gave up before trying.

Helps Prevent And Treat Single-Celled External Fish Diseases Caused By White Spot Disease (Ich), Other Protozoans, Dinoflagellates, and Fungus