Disheartened by reef fish limitations

K

Kaiser699a

New member
Hi folks I hope you can cheer me up a bit with fish recommendations and your experiences with some fish I have been "warned off" from research and reading.
Basically to set the scene, I have finally got the space and budget to set up my dream 100 gallon reef tank. I have some coral frags in and been growing well - softies and LPS. Test parameters are good (I don't really want to talk about those though).
What I am finding while researching fish selections is that there seems to be negatives about almost all my favourite and preferred fish for a reef tank... This is disappointing and hopefully some experienced reefers can guide me with more options. Here is what I find:
"Safe":
Firefish, shrimp gobies, cardinals, zebra dartfish, Blennies, Flasher Wrasse, Chromis, Chalk Bass, Royal Gramma, Foxface Lo, Ocellaris Clowns, Assessors, Neon Blue Goby, Clown Gobies, Pink Streaked Wrasse, Possum Wrasse.

Questionable (due to feeding, aggression or coral worrying):
Pyramid Butterfly, Anthias, Wantanabe Angel, Yellow Tang, Kole Tang.

Not safe or unwise to choose (due to feeding, aggression or coral worrying):
Copperband, Dwarf Angels, Powder Blue Tang, Hippo Tang.

Hopefully anyone can chime in to confirm if my research is getting me to the correct "risk" level for each fish type. Now while I can still have a wide variety of behaviour, shapes and colours with my safe fishes I have just upgraded to my dream 100g from a 20g and was a little surprised by the limitations! Any adivise on suitability of any of my questionable or high risk fishes - I would dearly love a Coral Beauty or Flame Angel, Copperband and a Tang? Maybe I am over thinking this and they would be ok but thought I would ask for opinions... please help:uhoh3:
 
Personally I would say stay clear of any angels. Some people say they have no issues, however I've had over 4 friends who decided on a dwarf angel because "it's worth the risk" only to be losing a bunch of corals and then tearing down the tank to pull it out.

In the end I couldn't even say "I told you so" because I felt so bad watching.

For tangs, you're limited due to the size of the tank, but a Kole yellow eye or a bristletooth tomini tang would be a nice addition.

I get where you're coming from, the fish that got me into saltwater and I've always wanted was a harlequin tusk. Alas, I can never have one unless I fire up a FOWLR.

I've always loved the potters angel, coral beauty & flame....but personally I don't consider them worth the risk. After seeing so many guys tear their tanks apart, I cringe thinking that may be me.

Don't be discouraged just spend time on liveaquaria.com and pick out your favorites that are reef safe and research them.
 
Kaiser699a said:
Hi folks I hope you can cheer me up a bit with fish recommendations and your experiences with some fish I have been "warned off" from research and reading.

Basically to set the scene, I have finally got the space and budget to set up my dream 100 gallon reef tank. I have some coral frags in and been growing well - softies and LPS. Test parameters are good (I don't really want to talk about those though).

What I am finding while researching fish selections is that there seems to be negatives about almost all my favourite and preferred fish for a reef tank... This is disappointing and hopefully some experienced reefers can guide me with more options. Here is what I find:

"Safe":

Firefish, shrimp gobies, cardinals, zebra dartfish, Blennies, Flasher Wrasse, Chromis, Chalk Bass, Royal Gramma, Foxface Lo, Ocellaris Clowns, Assessors, Neon Blue Goby, Clown Gobies, Pink Streaked Wrasse, Possum Wrasse.



Questionable (due to feeding, aggression or coral worrying):

Pyramid Butterfly, Anthias, Wantanabe Angel, Yellow Tang, Kole Tang.



Not safe or unwise to choose (due to feeding, aggression or coral worrying):

Copperband, Dwarf Angels, Powder Blue Tang, Hippo Tang.



Hopefully anyone can chime in to confirm if my research is getting me to the correct "risk" level for each fish type. Now while I can still have a wide variety of behaviour, shapes and colours with my safe fishes I have just upgraded to my dream 100g from a 20g and was a little surprised by the limitations! Any adivise on suitability of any of my questionable or high risk fishes - I would dearly love a Coral Beauty or Flame Angel, Copperband and a Tang? Maybe I am over thinking this and they would be ok but thought I would ask for opinions... please help:uhoh3:
Click to expand...



Nothing on your list seems impossible to me. Other than the Blue and PB tangs need larger tanks per the recommendations I don't see any reason for not keeping any of these fish. Reef fish are complex, high demand finicky animals. They all have their own "personalities".

Create your dream sheet, set your priorities 1 thru 99+ or whatever lol. Make notes of the important points for keeping each. Check your compatibility diagram, with a grain of salt (multiple Tangs can be kept if done properly). Choose your ideal choices based on the diagram and notes. Come back and post the list and ask for opinions (again take it seriously yet with a grain of salt). Just because a fish has possible down sides doesn't mean you can't have it.

I just ordered my first Regal Angel fish, the most demanding fish for me yet at least to my knowledge. But I have not have any problems with fish like CCB, Blue Tang, Matted File Fish (have all thee currently) as long as you are a are of their needs and risks so that you can mitigate or eliminate the risks. I had 5 tangs in my 180 that all did really well! https://youtu.be/oNRrf5J2ek8
Most likely it can and has been done if your prepared and educated.

Good luck!


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I would concur. Some of them come with 'risks' but not unacceptable ones, in most cases. As a 'newbie', start slow, with easier fish before moving to more difficult ones; and be mindful of tank size limitations.
 
ca1ore said:
I would concur. Some of them come with 'risks' but not unacceptable ones, in most cases. As a 'newbie', start slow, with easier fish before moving to more difficult ones; and be mindful of tank size limitations.
Click to expand...

+1

Nothing is more discouraging at the beginning of the hobby then getting a fish you know is more difficult, thinking you'll be fine, and then losing it.
 
Also, FWIW, on dwarf angels ....

My assumption always is that given enough time and enough opportunity, they will ALL nip. Perhaps there are rare exceptions, but assume that they will. Doesn't mean they cannot be kept, just that you will have to make some adjustments to the inverts you keep. I keep three in my reef, flame, potters and lemonpeel. LPS are problematic, particularly frogspawn that gets nipped constantly. SPS is fine, though polyp extension is reduced.
 
Another thing worth bearing in mind is that if an animal isn't getting the food levels it needs then it will often start looking to other food sources like your corals etc. Its all about the research when choosing inhabitants!

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Thanks for the guidance so far. I am doing lots of reading and research using Live Aquaria, Scott Michaels 500 Reef Fish book and forum searches. It almost seems like when I pick a fish I like I start researching and then there is some reason to put it in the questionable or unsuitable category. I am an engineer so want to play the percentages of choosing more easy to care for and reef (mostly LPS seem to be the risk) safe.
So Dwarf Angels are out, I have seen too much advice saying they are all eventually a problem. Shame. I am encouraged by mickey204 saying a Kole Tang could be ok - I really like those.
I plan on starting out with the safe ones I know I want anyway, such as, Red Firefish, Royal Gramma and a Shrimp Goby (probably a high fin of some sort). If that goes well then possibly think about a group of 8 - 10 Threadfin Cardinals or Green Chromis although I have read on forums that Chromis don't do well long term in a group picking off the weakest until 1 or 2 are left. I don't fancy that much. My disheartenment was coming because I want a center piece fish or 2 that get a bit bigger i.e. all the ones I was putting as questionable or unsuitable. Kole Tang would be great and Pyramid Butterfly. Any comments on that approach?
 
Man there are TONS of cool reef-safe fish you can keep. Flasher wrasses, fairy wrasses, blennies, gobies, anthias, etc.

A good compromise on your desire for a dwarf angel could be a Bellus Angel.
 
For what it's worth I tried a kole tang twice and both of them were aggressive jerks. I don't want to throw a wrench into your plans but I wanted to chime in. I have kept a tomini tang in the past and he was super passive and the orange tips looked great in my opinion. If you look around on here about kole tangs it seems to be about 50/50 on them being aggressive or super passive. Each animal is unique of course. One thing I do see a lot from posters is that the kole shows aggressive behavior towards Blennys specifically I believe. Here is a pretty recent thread showing both opinions on aggression of the kole...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2600355&highlight=kole+tang+aggression
 
Oh dear on the Kole. I have also looked up the Bellus Angel and see reports on here that they nip Acans. I love my Acans so no way I would risk that... See what I mean, this is the merry-go-round that I can't get off... Good suggestions and glimmers of hope, shot down by reefer experience.
 
Reef908 said:
For what it's worth I tried a kole tang twice and both of them were aggressive jerks. I don't want to throw a wrench into your plans but I wanted to chime in. I have kept a tomini tang in the past and he was super passive and the orange tips looked great in my opinion. If you look around on here about kole tangs it seems to be about 50/50 on them being aggressive or super passive. Each animal is unique of course. One thing I do see a lot from posters is that the kole shows aggressive behavior towards Blennys specifically I believe. Here is a pretty recent thread showing both opinions on aggression of the kole...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2600355&highlight=kole+tang+aggression
Click to expand...


I'm not sure that thread is any reason for concern for the OP.

In the end, any fish you get can be rolling the dice in regards to temperament. Some people have engineering goby's attacking everything.

You have to roll with the flow. If the Kole is the only tang and eating properly it's definitely worth a shot and aggressiveness towards normal smaller fish should be minimal. I'm not sure a single tang exists that cannot be considered at least "semi-aggressive".

Yea, you may get one that turns into a jerk...but we generally only hear the "bad" cases and not the good ones. I'm sure there are far more good kole tangs than murdering beasts lol

OR

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+43+3130&pcatid=3130

OOOooooOOOooooOOOOoooo

If you're going to have 1 tang...may as well get that guy.
 
I wouldn't hesitate to try any of the fish on your list with the appropriate size tank except for the dwarf angels (not worth it to me #Ilovemyacansandeuphyllia) and combtooth blennies. I had a Tribal Blenny cost me a bunch of SPS (acros, monti and pavona)
 
I have 2 pyramid butterflies, very great fish. Only thing is they ate xenia when I tried to move some in from my 28, but they leave everything else alone. The only softies I have are mushrooms and zoas.
 
Kaiser699a said:
.......

"Safe":
Firefish, shrimp gobies, cardinals, zebra dartfish, Blennies, Flasher Wrasse, Chromis, Chalk Bass, Royal Gramma, Foxface Lo, Ocellaris Clowns, Assessors, Neon Blue Goby, Clown Gobies, Pink Streaked Wrasse, Possum Wrasse.

Questionable (due to feeding, aggression or coral worrying):
Pyramid Butterfly, Anthias, Wantanabe Angel, Yellow Tang, Kole Tang.

Not safe or unwise to choose (due to feeding, aggression or coral worrying):
Copperband, Dwarf Angels, Powder Blue Tang, Hippo Tang.
....:
Click to expand...

From first hand experiences: Foxface Lo would be too big for your tank. Mine grow from a tiny less than 2 inches to 8 inches over 2 years. Wantanabei angels will be fine. They will pushing your tank size but will not bother a thing. Yellow tang will be fine in your tank.
I always have harem of Flame angels in my tank from 65 gal plus. Mine never bother a thing. I do feed on the heavy side. IMO, they only bother coral if they are hungry and looking for thing to eat. Over the years I have had 10+ Flame angels, not one bother my coral. Am I lucky? I don't think so. On the other hand Potter, Nox and Coral beauty all have to be trapped and remove. Trapped using their favorite coral. I only keep mostly SPS, Xenia and some LPS (Elegance, Frogspawn and the like.)
I prob leave PBT out of your tank. They are pretty aggressive and really swim fast. My PBT is fat and happy and I had multiple PBT over the years with other tangs. However, when I first add them into this tank (320 gal) the PBT was fighting so much with other tangs and foxface that he damage his scaple. The R side is permanently erected. I keep on thinking that I should catch him and try to fix this but for the last 2 years I have not. His aggressiveness and the speed that he swim in my tank, make me think he is unsuitable for your tank.
Hipo Blue tang will be too big for your tank.
CBB is fine but he will keep the diversity of your fauna down. He will eliminate a lot of the worms in your sand bed and rock, along with all the aptasia in short order.

mickey204 said:
I get where you're coming from, the fish that got me into saltwater and I've always wanted was a harlequin tusk. Alas, I can never have one unless I fire up a FOWLR.
Click to expand...
I keep Harlequin Tusk in my reef tank. You just need a big enough reef tank

attachment.php
 
Purple tang
Hogfish (yellow or candy striped)
Wrasses (all sorts of cool ones)
Regal angel (MANY have success with those)


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