disturbing zoanthid trend

[Reef Junkie]

I thinks it's healthy for the community to "out" price gougers.

If this were Ebay or some other site dedicated to musicians, then I can see why it wouldn't be anyones concern.

This is a site dedicated to exactly this, reefkeeping. I believe it's kind of our duty to "out" people that think it's ok to gouge the pockets of our fellow members.

If after you've been warned not to spend the money by fellow reefers and you still do it, then we have a right to make fun of you, plain and simple.

If you knew a store had a reputation for price gouging, would you shop there? Seriously.

 

[Azurel]

then we have a right to make fun of you, plain and simple.

Are you serious? You have the right? That's a load of bull who are you to tell someone what and where they can spend there cash? Yes you can give them your opinion or advice that's fine. But to sit there and tell me you have the right to make fun of them in public is BS. If there is a case of of outright gouging then that is one thing and I can understand that. But who decides what is gouging to me? You? What is the price for a specific type of polyp? Who sets the price? What the market will bare right? That's how it works in business and if somebody has a morph and want to sell some at market price or under that, I would have no problem with that. IF they try to sell it for more then that well, let say PPE per polyp goes for $35-50 and anything thing over the top price is gouging, sure I can understand that. But because you or I can't afford $50 a polyp doesn't give me the right to disparage your name publicly because you do or can buy one for that price. $50 a polyp might be to much for me, that don't mean your being gouged if you don't think it is and you buy it. That's my point if it isn't blatant then it's all conjecture and speculation of your perceived idea of what gouging is. Just because I or someone else don't agree with you don't make me right and you wrong or vise versa. It also don't mean you have the right to "make fun of" this said person and belittle there name in public. If that's what you think these boards are for and the reef community should do then I seriously think you need to rethink your purpose here. Cause belittling people that don't agree with you or those that share your same ideology is cool and isn't right.

Now in a PM that's different......

 

[drouner]

I don't understand the gouging statement either. It is just economics 101.

Again, if no ones pays $50 per polyp then the seller will reduce his price until the price point is made. But as long as people pay that then the seller will continue to sell at the $50.

You are blaming the seller, but what about the buyer?

 

[Reef Junkie]

Well, first off.
I wasn't singling you out. This isn't about you Azurel.

I understand the arguement you can make about marketing, business, economics... Blah Blah Blah. Save that for Ebay.

This is a HOBBY. This is also a board owned, run and shared by HOBBYISTS.

Does that make sense? Or does everyone here just look like a $ sign?

The last time I checked, I have a mortgage, 2 car payments, a student loan and assorted bills to pay monthly, oh yeah a wife and 2 kids.

I believe there are a lot of people on this board just like me. Why should I have to or want pay some price gouging fool a ton of cash for coral when I already have $5k+ of monthly bills already?
Even if I were rich, it goes against common sense.
Price gougers feed on the impulsive and newcomers.

Call me crazy, but whatever it is you're trying to tell me, I'm against it.

Oh, and I would never blatantly make fun of you or anyone here in a hurtful manner. I was joking and apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[drouner]

I am still confused about why you are calling them price gougers. No, I think it is a two way street. They both feed off each other. I would say most of those impulsive buyers are not in the hobby for the long haul. Wasn't there a debate going on about LE stuff the other day?

This is a hobby, and there are a lot of hobbyst that give way or charge very little for frags. I know that I have given a lot of frags way to newbies. But also the upside is if you want to be impulsive you can as well. To each there own.

I don't have the cash to by a Deltec skimmer. Is Deltec gauging at $400 a pop? My $200 skimmer that was a Christmas present works fine for me. So I am happy.

BTW, I hope you check every month on those bills. LOL. I hate doing that. Rather spend my time in doing anything else instead of trying to figure out where all the $ goes.

Who is that guy in your avitar?

 

[Azurel]

I never said it was about me nor did I take it that way.....I'm sure to some people we do look like dollar signs....Ever notice the increase of "Id these and how much they worth" threads? Just to have them turn up on eBay. I don't do business or deal with these people. Nor the ones that like to photo-shop pictures.

Why should I have to or want pay some price gouging fool a ton of cash for coral

You don't that's my point nobody says you have to, you can wait or get in a trade at a later time right?

What I'm"trying to tell" you is it is your opinion of what gouging is. That is the standard by which you spend money as I have my standard too. I'm also not saying it is cool to "gouge" people but it is a perceived notion of what the term gouging is.

Call me crazy, but whatever it is you're trying to tell me, I'm against it.

Against what? That different people have different opinions of what gouging is? Ok then you tell me and the hobby what polyps are worth. Hell I say they all should be free cause that's exactly what they are in the ocean right? Should they all be .50? or what? Simply cause we don't want to pay x amount for them. Don't buy them and if everyone don't buy them then the price will drop till someone is willing to buy them for said price.....Even if it isn't "business" in the sense of the word it still is money changing hands. We don't have to agree, but I bet in practice we agree more then you think.....I just have a more open idea of how someone can spend their money and if they want to wizz it away on what is considered an over priced coral wither it be a zoa or SPS then that is there business. But like I said I bet in practice we are more alike then different.

 

[Reefski's]

i still want to see these faboulous Zoa's. pictures please.

 

[Reef Junkie]

I couldn't agree with you more.

I do think it's good for people to make a couple of bucks selling their coral, but price gouging is unethical and those people should be outted.

I have been around here for a little while, I have made many friends (and some enemies), but I have consistently tried to guide people in the right direction. That is why this website was made in the first place.

Not just information, wisdom too.

You've got a good head on your shoulders and you agree that it's in our best interest to prevent the successive trend of price gouging.

It's like Al said, you're either helping or hurting. Indifference is hurting.

 

[redFishblue]

After people are done regulating the price of zoas, they should move on to the LPS forum and do something about the price of the watermelon chalice. Cause I want a big chunk of it for cheap

 

[Reef Junkie]

Heh, you should join your local reef club. I know a friend of mine has the Watermelon Chalice. He sells frags to members cheap and gives them to friends.

 

[Bebo77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8007197#post8007197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Azurel
That pure speculation and conjecture....Why should someone get flamed because you or I think they are gauging? How many bubble corals are out there? The price hasn't dropped over the years very much. You still pay $30-50 for a single colony, same thing with a lot of other corals. If you don't like the price then don't buy it, it's that simple. You can also wait till the price drops if it does. One of the reasons that zoanthids has a serious following is because there is no other coral out there that can compete with the variations in color and size. This is one of the reasons that some can and have a high price, and the ones that don't take for example eagle eyes you won't get much more then a .50-$1 a polyp for those but others like PPE and Purple Deaths and a few others, they are either slow growers or not in large circulation which in business will drive the price up within reason. Large demand/little supply= higher price. I prefer to trade but I will sell a few polyps here and there of some stuff that is a little more costly to help fund the hobby and get new color morphs which helps for trades. All these post crying about prices is getting just as old as "ID these please" threads. IF you don't think somebody is reputable or is gouging in your perception then don't buy from them. There is one site that has gotten outrageous with the prices of there stock and the only reason it has happened is because of the popularity of the site and the reputation of the site owner. I Haven't bought from this site in awhile because of the trend over the last year.....That's how you slow or deflate the prices not by continuing the crying on the boards about the prices, but not giving these folks money. Every person has a certain price standard your's maybe lower or higher then mine, does that mean I should come on the boards and flame you for it? Nope, sure don't, thats your business on how you spend YOUR money you earned it and deserve to not have some stranger flame you for how YOU spend it, that's your business not mine.

I will say though I don't support people that give or have the appearance of being a chop-shop......

you are part of the problem

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Can we all agree to keep the peace and allow everyone to state his or her opinion. I'm not taking sides, I just hope we can all make nice and discuss the issues at hand politely.

Mucho Reef

 

[TheBigOne]

To each their own. some people buy status symbol cars, some the newest latest phone or gaming system each time it comes out, others buy coral. We all know the most expensive cars , phones and etc are NOT the best quality, but that's part of the point, right?

Some people spend money just to say they spent the money. The reef hobby just has a lot of those people.

 

[Reef Junkie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8009201#post8009201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheBigOne


Some people spend money just to say they spent the money. The reef hobby just has a lot of those people.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Those are the people I would make fun of. Like a good friend of mine. Spent $thousands$ on trendy corals just so he could say he has them. I make fun of him all the time, but not in a mean spirited way and not behind his back. He reciprocates.:blown:

Yet, I don't think paying the price gougers reflects the core community here on RC. I think everyone here is looking to have these corals, but not at $600 a polyp.

I've publically said something (on these boards) directly to a person that is a price gouger, because I don't feel it's right.
I'm entitled to my opinion and theres a good chance that most of the community here agrees.

Again, this IS the perfect place to complain that someone is a price gouger. Because this is a board dedicated to the hobby. It's kind of our responsibility to do the right thing.

Peace:bum:

 

[Azurel]

you are part of the problem

Great to be a part of something.....


I never said that we can't call someone out if in fact they are gouging, but you have to be sure they are before you do other wise it can be considered libel, just be sure that the person is gouging before you publicly disparage someones name.....My point is again at what point is it considered price gouging? Nobody still has given me a definition of it. I'll tell you why, is because it is a personal preference. Should I come on here and call a guy out because he is selling some polyps for $10 a polyp when I think they are only worth $2? That's my point if I believed that then he is gouging in my eye's. That doesn't mean he is in yours or anybody else's. $500 a polyp for orange envy's is ridiculous for example, would I buy them for that price? Nope to rich for my blood plus the wife would kill me, but they are not in a whole lot of tanks cause if they were there would be people bragging about them or showing them off but you don't see it. So in a way they are rare in the hobby or trade thus the high price. I would hope nobody would buy them for that price as to prove a point in that they are to much and don't deserve the price being asked. That would be the way to change the trend by not buying these corals from eBay or retail shops. As they drop the price cause of the lack of sales then trader/sellers would also have to drop the prices. People that have been in the hobby know who to stay away from and who is a reputable person seller or trader. But at the same time if somebody wants something and treats himself to a extravagant purchase then why not.....It's his cash and he probably knows better. I think in the end we agree more then we disagree, when it comes to putting money on the table....I personally prefer to trade, saves cash for other things.

Can we all agree to keep the peace and allow everyone to state his or her opinion. I'm not taking sides, I just hope we can all make nice and discuss the issues at hand politely.

I would hope that nobody thinks I hold any hard feelings or mean anything personal especially RJ....I think we can debate with out it turning nasty....I would hope anyway.

I think we can also agree that giving out good advice gained from experience to those that don't have the knowledge or experience is also a good way to help stop the trend.

 

[KafudaFish]

Man oh man I love these types of threads. I think they are great because it informs people what they could be getting into as a hobby. But remember this: It is a hobby. Some people treat it as that and others treat it as a business. Both situations are acceptable. There is nothing about it that is essential to your life unlike food, water, and shelter.
Is there price gouging? Yes as with anything else in life you must make the decision what to spend your money on as you deem necessary and what brings enjoyment to your life. Enjoyment is defined differently by different people.
Think about this: Why does one zoa color morph bring more pleasure to you as a hobbist? The color? Because it is "rare"? Because of its "given name"? Cost?
Again this is different for different people. As my wife says they don't do anything and they really don't.
So are there any solutions to price gouging? Yes. As stated before do not buy a polyp that you deem price excessive. Other people will and may frag them out and over time price may drop.
Quit the hobby and collect potato chips that look like people.
Buy the cheaper ones only.
If you must have that $100 polyp get 4 reef friends to chip in and agree to frag to those people first then sell or trade to others.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Azurel, my friend I hope you didn't think I was speaking to you directly. I was just making a general statment to all based on how I saw the thread headed down. Friends?

Based upon another thread that you are aware of, I just wanted to make sure that no one crosses the line. We can all agree to disagree and still be chummy at the end of the day.

Mucho Reef

 

[Azurel]

Nope I didn't think you were talking to me......I just saw it as you did and wanted to make the point that I wasn't going down that road either.......No worries m8...It's all good.

 

[ReefWifey]

Two things stick out in this thread to me:

1)If we're suposed to agree that it is good hobbyist form to 'out' the 'price gougers', then someone needs to come up with a list of what everything is 'worth' and maintain it. Because I sure don't know. If we're gonna put a red X on a seller in a public forum, I'd like to think there is some kind of factual formula being used. Any volenteers to create and maintain daily such a list?

2)I see people griping alot and 'making fun of' people who pay large prices for zoas. You say ask around, post, etc. Well, a lot of us are just starting out, we don't have the killer collection already for 'trade bait', and we haven't been here forever to have such good relationships with the 'high rollers'. Some of us don't have those things, but we DO have cash. If we have cash, and want something, and we buy it.....all of a sudden we're 'part of the problem'. Whatever. If I want Armageddons, and I haven't smoozed my way into the high roller network where people just throw them at me cuz I'm a zoa god or something.....and I have cash....I'm gonna buy them. Not all hobbyists are starving students, or strapped for cash. And not all of us throw money around irresponsibly to show off either. Some of us actually love the hobby, LOVE the zoas, and will pay for them. I don't know about you, but when I go out to buy a designer pair of shoes...the weight of the whole shoe economic market isn't on my shoulders.

I just don't see why there is all this squabbling about 'to pay or not to pay'. If something is worth it to you, buy it. If it's not, don't. I don't see why we need to advocate 'making fun of' each other. With that mentality, I'd make fun of folks without the money to spend.

It should be said also that not everyone who is dropping mad cash on zoas is trying to make mad cash back. Personally, I enjoying trading around, and share the wealth. I hook up friends where I can. Sometimes it all just goes back into the hobbyists anyway.

 

[BS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8007942#post8007942 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Azurel
But to sit there and tell me you have the right to make fun of them in public is BS. ....

Hey Hey Hey..... leave me out of this OK :lol:

This is why I just trade