DIY: 29g Sump w/baffles

[FlipFlops24/7]

Jason's not answering his cell phone, so I'm posting this in here. Just wanting to get peoples opinions on a sump idea.

The first idea for my 29 gallon sump/refugium is an my OVER, UNDER, OVER baffle design. I read that this helps reduce microbubbles

Lets compare that design to this design, where the baffles are in an UNDER, OVER, UNDER design. This should improve turning of the chaeto as well as filtration through the chaeto, right?

So which design is better? Also, will these measurements work? The tank is to scale, drawn in photoshop.

 

[Bri Guy]

I think you need Over under over when the water is exiting the fuge so the first under doesn't get plugged with sand and stuff on the bottom of the fuge. As long as the water has to travel down at some point thats what rids the bubbles. JMO

 

[FlipFlops24/7]

Thanks for the feedback Bri,

Would a design like this be even better? Starting with an UNDER before the refugium?

 

[Bri Guy]

I don't have baffles so maybe I don't know what Im talking about, but i thought you wanted to trap the fuge in the fuge, by having the glass on all sides go right to the bottom, thus keeping the sand and cheato in the fuge.

I would go with design #1, have you checked out melevs site?

And since you have such nice pics of your future sump, post on the lighting and filtration forum and see what feed back you get from there. Good luck.

 

[jandlms]

I like the over-under-over design because as Bri mentioned it will stop clogging at the first baffle. The idea with chaeto in a sump, however, is to keep the keep the chaeto constantly turning. My chaeto doesn't because it doesn't have a series of baffles. The chaeto is just stationary in one compartment of the sump. This leads to inefficient chaeto absorption of nutrients as well as the chaeto becoming "dirty" and clogged.
As an option, how about cutting some horisontal slits in the first baffle at the 1/3 and 2/3 levels to move water out of the chaeto compartment more efficiently (the baffle would have to be made of plexi not regular glass)? If you review any of the old info about algae turf scrubbers and ecosystem algae filtration you will find that moving water efficiently over your algae will be the best for filtration purposes.
By the way, with that last design, the chaeto will float to the surface and flow over the baffles unless it is weighed or tied down. Weighing or tieing it down will also lower the efficiency of the chaeto as it will not be "rolling" in the water.
I have a multiple compartment sump that you are welcome to look at (mainly for ideas of what not to do).
jandlms

 

[FlipFlops24/7]

thanks a ton for the feedback jandlms,

I could just have the first baffle cut into 3 sections when I go to the glass store, and glue them so they form 2 slits.

Could I put a mag400 in the refugium help roll the chaeto and keep water moving through it?

 

[jandlms]

I assume you are returning water to the sump in the section with the skimmer. Why not drain the tank onto the chaeto in the first chamber and have the skimmer in the second chamber. This way gravity would keep water moving the chaeto around.
You could put a pump into the chamber to move the chaeto but you would have a never-ending chore to keep bits of chaeto from clogging the pump.
Don't forget a settling area for detritus removal. This can be as simple as adding a small two or three inch high"baffle" to your pump return area.

 

[yaitisme]

Here is some really good sump reading info and example of different sizes.

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

Is a 29 gal kinda tall for a sump? I only ask because I may be in the market for a 29 gallon (may skip the 20 gallon step and go directly to a 29), J and J be making fun of my 20 long.

 

[FlipFlops24/7]

jandlms,

How does this setup look?

Also, are my baffles high enough, or too high? How can I determine how much water will fill my sump when my return pump shuts off?

 

[Bri Guy]

In that design you could do the under over under, that way any bubbles that make it to the bottom once would have to make it to the bottom a second time before getting sucked by the mag.

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/sump.php

This will determine how much room you need in the sump, tank size dementions needed along with how deep the return/overflow is in the tank.

 

[FlipFlops24/7]

2.8 Gallons Thanks Bri Guy!!!!!!!!!

 

[FlipFlops24/7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8658639#post8658639 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yaitisme
Here is some really good sump reading info and example of different sizes.

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

Is a 29 gal kinda tall for a sump? I only ask because I may be in the market for a 29 gallon (may skip the 20 gallon step and go directly to a 29), J and J be making fun of my 20 long.

Why would it be too tall for a sump? Its my old tank so I needed to use it for something


I have an unused 29 gallon if you want to buy it.

 

[Bri Guy]

Now reverse that 2.8g and figure out how many inches you need in the 29 for overflow. Just put in the tank dementions and guess how many inches, then try again untill its 2.8

 

[jandlms]

That helps with the water that goes down the overflo. What about the water that backflows down your returns when the pump shuts off. The dividers are way too high on this design. You will have water in the first chamber within 2 inches of the top of the sump and to a depth of 14 inches in the second chamber. If your pump shuts off and your siphon break doesn't function (they clog pretty easily) you are going to have (My guess) 5 to 10 gallons (depending on how deep your overflow is) of water going from your long shallow breeder back into the sump. Just a quick guess but I would consider taking two inches off of your dividers. Your dividers would be 14 " and 12" then. I'm also not sure about how tall the dividers on your baffle actually need to be. Sorry ,but this is difficult for me to troubleshoot on the fly like this without doing some of the volume calculations.
PM sent for more info.
jandlms

 

[yaitisme]

Just don't recall seeing many designs that used tanks over 16" tall. Kinda figured you were working around what you already had. Take a look at the link I posted, some very good designs for baffles and layouts. He does all of his in acrylic which would be cool to try (at someone else's house of course!), I would sleep better at night having water in a glass tank that was built to hold water though.

How much you looking to get for the unused 29?

 

[scooters reef]

I agree with all the posts on the under/over/under or reverse. If at the end of a fuge section the first one needs to be over. Otherwise, as in your last design, I much prefer the first to be under. Any bubbles in that compartment are already trying to float, and due to the large area most will. Going under draws from the area of least bubbles instead of drawing them right off the surface where they are already going. IF you have the room, I would add an additional one ending under, unless you will have an auto top-off of some sort. As water evaporates in the return chamber, you could end up with a waterfall effect and create bubbles. An extra under wont entirely prevent it, but will help greatly. If using an auto top-off keeping it close though, then little to be gained from the extra space.

I also agree the overs are too tall. That is what sets the depth in your chambers. I would stay between 8 - 12 inches, probably closer to 8 (with the fuge still being higher). Count the area above that as backflow protection.

 

[jmkarcz]

So, you designed something better than the one I sketched out....?


I don't see where you called, but the boss was on the war path today. So it's proly better you didn't get me.

Are we still on for Saturday TJ?

J

 

[jandlms]

The height of the sump is immaterial. A taller sump or tank just gives you more room for backflowed water. Of course if you go really crazy with height you would need that much more powerful of a light source for the chaeto. just keep in mind that you are planning for catastrophe (i.e) the pump stops while you are out of town) . A little extra available volume is a good thing in soooo many ways.

 

[RCS]

Keep in mind the pump for the skimmer may operate more effeciently at different depths as well, though if you stick with the hang-on, it's a moot point. More of an issue for those with an in-sump design...

 

[mako56]

There is only one problem with puting the skimmer in the middle If you are looking at keeping pods they have a chance off going through the skimmer before they get to your tank. But that might not be an issue for you. Like Jon says make sure when you shut off your pumps that all the water that will drain back into your sump fits that is by far the most important thing.