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chrisguy
New member
Melev - Without sounding stupid, I'm excited to offer you assistance. You and your web site have provided me a ton of help, THANK YOU!!
You will need a 12VDC DPDT (Dual Poll Dual Terminal) Rely. You will need a 12VDC Power adapter a the relay requires a minimum of 9V to activate (I would not use a 9V adapter). I prefer to use a relay with a socket. This way if the relay dies, you can easily replace it without having to do more solder work (I'm not so good at that). This is the version I bought 12VDC/5A DPDT Plug-In Relay & Socket It will more than handle your Auqa Lifter pump. My Dad did the math and this relay will more than handle my MaxiJet 1200.
You will need a 12VDC DPDT (Dual Poll Dual Terminal) Rely. You will need a 12VDC Power adapter a the relay requires a minimum of 9V to activate (I would not use a 9V adapter). I prefer to use a relay with a socket. This way if the relay dies, you can easily replace it without having to do more solder work (I'm not so good at that). This is the version I bought 12VDC/5A DPDT Plug-In Relay & Socket It will more than handle your Auqa Lifter pump. My Dad did the math and this relay will more than handle my MaxiJet 1200.
tekknoschtev
New member
captbunzo said:
Its not supposed to....
captbunzo
Premium Member
And, you know, now that I look a little closer, there are LOTS of interesting options - some of them quite a bit cheaper then the $8-$9 relay recommended above. See these pages for all of RadioShacks relays:
http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_011_002_013_000&Page=1
http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_011_002_013_000&Page=2
In particular of interest to me is this Compact 5VDC/1A SPST Reed Relay. Looks to me like this sucker may do the same job at 1/4 of the cost and pushing have the voltage through our tanks.
And another interesting option is this 5VDC/1A SPDT Micro Relay. That one for about $5.
Can anyone save me the effort and tell me what the different pins on these are going to do?
http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_011_002_013_000&Page=1
http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_011_002_013_000&Page=2
In particular of interest to me is this Compact 5VDC/1A SPST Reed Relay. Looks to me like this sucker may do the same job at 1/4 of the cost and pushing have the voltage through our tanks.
And another interesting option is this 5VDC/1A SPDT Micro Relay. That one for about $5.
Can anyone save me the effort and tell me what the different pins on these are going to do?
captbunzo
Premium Member
Sorry for so many posts. However, I found this article on wikipedia that may help to clarify some things on relays, for many of us...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay
Blazer88
Premium Member
Can you explain something for me real quick about the float switches. Why is there only one switch in the sump and two in the res.? I thought you would want two, maybe three, in the sump. One switch to turn the pump on, and one (maybe two as backup) to turn the pump off. I am not so concerned with the water level in my res. as that would probably just be filled once a week. Can this be modified as an on-off switch for the sump?
And maybe I'm missing something on the drawing, but it looks like the the -12V is connected to pin 6, which is also connected to the 120V to the pump....? Is your relation to the relay drawing the same as the pin-out next to it? You got me all confused now.
And maybe I'm missing something on the drawing, but it looks like the the -12V is connected to pin 6, which is also connected to the 120V to the pump....? Is your relation to the relay drawing the same as the pin-out next to it? You got me all confused now.
chrisguy
New member
My understanding (and I'm still learning) is that an SPST relay is basically not much more than a light switch (one wire in, one wire out) so it will not work to provide two wire power, but could provide a switch function. I sent an e-mail to dear old dad (works with stuff like this all the time) to seek more knowledge.
chrisguy
New member
Blazer88 said:
My Sump can hold more than my res so I really donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t have too much of an issue with the entire res going into the Sump other than a drop in salinity and 8 gallons on a 150-160 gallon system wont do too much damage.
You can easily modify this. Just remove all the wiring in the bottom path (FS #3, red LED and Buzzer) and then put float switch #3 inline with FS #1 and FS #2 and it becomes the second Sump switch (if mounted correctly).
The left side of the drawing is for the 12VDC side only. The relay pictured on the left is a logical representation (schematic symbol), not the physical pin out. The small diagram on the right is the physical layout of the relay. Also, the LEDââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s are 12VDC versions that have a built in resistor. A normal LED will not work.
captbunzo
Premium Member
Woohoo... Just ran down the hall and asked our resident electronic/robotics expert and he has verified this will work for our application. He even drew a little picture...
And he answered the question about what the various wires do. Here's the pic of the actual relay...
See the two longer pins at the top and the bottom of the relay? That is the "switched circuit" - i.e. those are the two pins we need to wire into the circuit that powers the pump/powerhead/flux capaciter/etc.
Then there are the two shorter pins that sit side by side below the top pin. Those are the pins that should be wired into our float switch circuit.
Anyhow, this is what I will likely be using. I will most likely just use a simple design that doesn't involve any LEDs, only has 1/2 float switches in the sump, no float switches in the resevoir, etc.
However....
1. There is no reason that LEDs could not be easily added (maybe I will - 5V LEDs should be easy to find)
2. You might be able to use multiple of these to implement 1/2 float switches in the resevoir telling the whole thing to turn off.
Anyhow, I guess that is my contribution to this thread. Maybe I will post a schematic when I get around to putting all of this togeher...
And he answered the question about what the various wires do. Here's the pic of the actual relay...
See the two longer pins at the top and the bottom of the relay? That is the "switched circuit" - i.e. those are the two pins we need to wire into the circuit that powers the pump/powerhead/flux capaciter/etc.
Then there are the two shorter pins that sit side by side below the top pin. Those are the pins that should be wired into our float switch circuit.
Anyhow, this is what I will likely be using. I will most likely just use a simple design that doesn't involve any LEDs, only has 1/2 float switches in the sump, no float switches in the resevoir, etc.
However....
1. There is no reason that LEDs could not be easily added (maybe I will - 5V LEDs should be easy to find)
2. You might be able to use multiple of these to implement 1/2 float switches in the resevoir telling the whole thing to turn off.
Anyhow, I guess that is my contribution to this thread. Maybe I will post a schematic when I get around to putting all of this togeher...
tekknoschtev
New member
I have some of those relays sitting in my kit. I personally wouldnt trust running 120V AC though them.... I guess that it is rated for it, but in my mind, the extra few dollars (we're not talking hudreds of dollars here) are worth having the bigger relay. That is sort of ignorance speaking as I havent actually used them, but the contacts seem very small for 120 to be going through - which, I think is part of the reason to be using the relay in the first place - the contacts on the float switch can, through arcing, become "welded" together. That and the safety of having 120 near your tank.
Just my thought.
Just my thought.
captbunzo
Premium Member
First, as far as running 120V current through these relays, that is no problem at all. They are rated at 120V (AC) up to 1 Amp. That is MORE then enough power. For instance, the AquaLifter pump that Melev & I have use about 0.03 Amps. The biggest and best maxijet you can find will only run about 1/5 or so of an Amp.
Size (gauge) of wire ONLY matters when it comes to the amount of amps involved. Now, don't try one of these on a bank of heaters, or a 3000 GPH closed loop pump...
As for arcing power, etc, there are simple and practical ways to take care of that. Easiest solution (though not the best) is electrical tape. Even better is a little bit of heat shrink.
These are just MY thoughts.
However (no offense intended) I don't think that we should allow ignorance/fear/uncertainty to make us shy away from using all of the available resources. Really, when I first saw the $9 relay that many are using for this I thought: MAN, what a beast, surely we can find something simpler then that.
Anyhow, no offense intended. I just would hope that we would keep things as grounded in fact as possible.
Size (gauge) of wire ONLY matters when it comes to the amount of amps involved. Now, don't try one of these on a bank of heaters, or a 3000 GPH closed loop pump...
As for arcing power, etc, there are simple and practical ways to take care of that. Easiest solution (though not the best) is electrical tape. Even better is a little bit of heat shrink.
These are just MY thoughts.
However (no offense intended) I don't think that we should allow ignorance/fear/uncertainty to make us shy away from using all of the available resources. Really, when I first saw the $9 relay that many are using for this I thought: MAN, what a beast, surely we can find something simpler then that.
Anyhow, no offense intended. I just would hope that we would keep things as grounded in fact as possible.
tekknoschtev
New member
Well, my main concern is the actual contact inside. I understand that things should be kept firmly planted in fact - I guess I'm just going on a gut feeling here. The extra few dollars doesnt seem like it;d be a big deal.
They are rated up to 1A and yes, that will run most of the devices you need, however, the floatswitches from floatswitches.net are rated up to 1.5A and people have still posted about them sticking due to electrical arcing within the switch. Again, I'm not an expert and am only going based on what I've read.
Perhaps when I am home one weekend (student living in the dorms 2 hours away from campus) I'll throw together two setups one with the smaller relay and one with the larger one and give them a "test"....
I would never build this thing without using heat shrink tubing around all of the exposed contacts, but you cant really do that inside the relay where the arcing from the switching can occurr. This from what I have read is a very rare occurance with the floatswitches, just something I've considered.
They are rated up to 1A and yes, that will run most of the devices you need, however, the floatswitches from floatswitches.net are rated up to 1.5A and people have still posted about them sticking due to electrical arcing within the switch. Again, I'm not an expert and am only going based on what I've read.
Perhaps when I am home one weekend (student living in the dorms 2 hours away from campus) I'll throw together two setups one with the smaller relay and one with the larger one and give them a "test"....
I would never build this thing without using heat shrink tubing around all of the exposed contacts, but you cant really do that inside the relay where the arcing from the switching can occurr. This from what I have read is a very rare occurance with the floatswitches, just something I've considered.
captbunzo
Premium Member
Are you talking about arcing physically INSIDE of the relay? It would seem that that would very unlikely on a device being sold.
One precaution I will be taking will be to simply keep all of this far away from the tank. The only thing near the sump will be the float switches themselves and the single line of airline tubing delivering water from my AquaLifter.
Anyhow, we will have to see how this goes. I am going to get the supplies and hack something together sometime soon....
And, btw, thank you for taking my message so well. I was half expecting it to be taken as the start of a flamefest...
One precaution I will be taking will be to simply keep all of this far away from the tank. The only thing near the sump will be the float switches themselves and the single line of airline tubing delivering water from my AquaLifter.
Anyhow, we will have to see how this goes. I am going to get the supplies and hack something together sometime soon....
And, btw, thank you for taking my message so well. I was half expecting it to be taken as the start of a flamefest...
tekknoschtev
New member
Haha, I get so tired of flaming that goes on in the boards. I completely understand keeping things based in fact. I'm a sophomore in college with a limited knowledge of electronics. Dont get me wrong, I've got boxes full of this and bags full of that (ics, resistors, transistors, etc...) for some small hobby robitics... but everything I have built has been from explicit instructions - nothing i've done really was ever hacked together or done without much research into it. BEAM Robotics are fun in that respect because changing a resistor gives a completely differnt behavior. Anyways back on topic - everything I've seen says to use the big horking relays. I've considered the solid state relay as well, but we'll have to see if I can get my hands on some.
melev
Well-known member
Thank you all for your input. I've been reading up on all the subsequent posts, and it is nice to see that several options were considered -- I saw most of those different kinds at Radio Shack last night and wondered what would and wouldn't work.
Obviously, the $9.39 one will be the stronger one, but it actually only handles 5Amps, while the $8.39 handles 10Amps. Wierd, huh? That little tiny one for a less than $3 should do the job.
Now what are you putting all of this stuff in? The smallest project box I saw at RS was almost as big as the Aqualifter itself. I wonder about just using a plastic electrical box, and put the relay & connections behind the outlet perhaps. It wouldn't look exciting, but it would do the job. I'd love to see how you guys have yours assembled just to get the creative juices flowing in my mind.
Btw, is there any need for this thing if you use a Relay? http://www.radioshack.com/product.a..._name=CTLG_011_002_013_000&product_id=275-220
Obviously, the $9.39 one will be the stronger one, but it actually only handles 5Amps, while the $8.39 handles 10Amps. Wierd, huh? That little tiny one for a less than $3 should do the job.
Now what are you putting all of this stuff in? The smallest project box I saw at RS was almost as big as the Aqualifter itself. I wonder about just using a plastic electrical box, and put the relay & connections behind the outlet perhaps. It wouldn't look exciting, but it would do the job. I'd love to see how you guys have yours assembled just to get the creative juices flowing in my mind.
Btw, is there any need for this thing if you use a Relay? http://www.radioshack.com/product.a..._name=CTLG_011_002_013_000&product_id=275-220
tekknoschtev
New member
The socket is handy if you have to replace the relay for any reason. You can just plug a new one in, instead of re-soldering the contacts to a new relay.
How I plan on having mine is in a dual-gang electrical box. One side will have two outlets, and the other side will be covered completely. One outlet controlled by the relay (the one that a small pump gets hooked to, instead of cutting the plug off and soldering. This way if something goes awry its easy to switch pumps or plug whatever else you want in there) The other one is going to control a buzzer+flashing light for a warning. The other side of the dual gang box will house the electronics with plugs (like a headphone jack) for the float switches.
If it isnt immediately aparent, I like making things modular. It has saved me a bit of time and headaches in the past. Makes trouble shooting easy, and though setup involves a little more work, I believe its worth it.
How I plan on having mine is in a dual-gang electrical box. One side will have two outlets, and the other side will be covered completely. One outlet controlled by the relay (the one that a small pump gets hooked to, instead of cutting the plug off and soldering. This way if something goes awry its easy to switch pumps or plug whatever else you want in there) The other one is going to control a buzzer+flashing light for a warning. The other side of the dual gang box will house the electronics with plugs (like a headphone jack) for the float switches.
If it isnt immediately aparent, I like making things modular. It has saved me a bit of time and headaches in the past. Makes trouble shooting easy, and though setup involves a little more work, I believe its worth it.
tekknoschtev
New member
jake2045 said:
I plan on documenting it step by step (that seems to be the biggest thing on the boards. Everyone sees the schematic or wiring diagram and finished product, but not the steps
) however, its going to be a while. Right now I'm at school 2 hours away. One weekend when I'm home I'm going to pick up the float switches and the other needed supplies and one day I'll fill my dorm room with the lovely smell of solder.I'm pretty handy when it comes to photographing with one hand a process that should require two hands alone to do. My ammocase PC was fun, dremeling the steel, holding it between my legs, blindly photographing.
I will be sure to post when I get underway though.
