HeneryH
Henery Hawk
I think the easy answer is that you must provide a voltage. I am suprised that you got anything at all with the short.
DIY LEDs - The write-up
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der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
I've heard people report many times that there's a tiny bit of "leakage" when the DIM circuit is left open or pulled to 0, so I'm not surprised. It's weird that they don't all behave that way, though.
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
That's pretty good results considering the LEDs are packed together like that. Have you verified the temps (i.e. felt it with a finger)?
TheFishMan65
New member
Yes, it was warm. Sunshine on a dark rug temperature. But not as hot as a street in the summer (of course I am one of them southerners 
) (joke from another thread for those wondering).
I am planning on mounting these sort of Tiffany lamp like. So if needed I will be able to mount a fan in the top to suck air through the fixture. If I mount 2-3 feet off the water I am probably OK, but if I need a shield than the cooling from the side slots may not work so well (no air flow from the bottom). Maybe I can drop the shield 1/4 inch or so. Or put in holes to allow air to come in the ends. Tonight I am going to tape the side slots and see how hot it gets - of course this is only a six inch piece, but I will get some idea.
[EDIT]
I also do not plan to run a 1 amp, the driver I am using is actually designed with a 900 ma max current.
) (joke from another thread for those wondering).I am planning on mounting these sort of Tiffany lamp like. So if needed I will be able to mount a fan in the top to suck air through the fixture. If I mount 2-3 feet off the water I am probably OK, but if I need a shield than the cooling from the side slots may not work so well (no air flow from the bottom). Maybe I can drop the shield 1/4 inch or so. Or put in holes to allow air to come in the ends. Tonight I am going to tape the side slots and see how hot it gets - of course this is only a six inch piece, but I will get some idea.
[EDIT]
I also do not plan to run a 1 amp, the driver I am using is actually designed with a 900 ma max current.
Santoki
Shimmer Addict
It may be a better idea to test using only as much metal as will be available to the emitter densities you plan on going with. In other words, you have quite a bit of extra surface area surrounding both sides of your LED grouping, which also help in dissipating heat. The real world temps may be quite a bit higher after you get all the LEDs you want packed in there.
That really is a good score you got yourself there Fishman.
-R
That really is a good score you got yourself there Fishman.
-R
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
Very interested to see your results. The more info we share on heat sink experiments the better, since there has been very little variation from the standard "overkill" heatsinkusa approach.
TheFishMan65
New member
Santoki,
I was trying to see how hot it can get worst case. I have been measuring in the center of the 4 LEDs. If this stays cool then I am not worried when I space the pairs every 2 inches. But you are correct that I need to watch the final layout. I plan to place these in some sort of case so my ambient could rise. I also plan to mount high, but if a splash shield is needed that could drastically effect the convection cooling. As DWZM said, not much has been done with non standard heatsinks. So I was trying to get a guess of worst case and if these even had enough metal. They appear to:dance:
I was trying to see how hot it can get worst case. I have been measuring in the center of the 4 LEDs. If this stays cool then I am not worried when I space the pairs every 2 inches. But you are correct that I need to watch the final layout. I plan to place these in some sort of case so my ambient could rise. I also plan to mount high, but if a splash shield is needed that could drastically effect the convection cooling. As DWZM said, not much has been done with non standard heatsinks. So I was trying to get a guess of worst case and if these even had enough metal. They appear to:dance:
Santoki
Shimmer Addict
no question these will be better at cooling than your standard U channel, and maybe even standard heatsinks...
I think if your end design involves some kind of fan for active cooling, you have a lot more room to play with. Like I mentioned a couple pages earlier, I was alarmed (me tests made me think my cooling design was conservative) at how hot the pendent heatsinks got in an environment that was 5-10˚F warmer than my own home. Luckily I was able to up the air flow by adjusting fan speed.
-R
I think if your end design involves some kind of fan for active cooling, you have a lot more room to play with. Like I mentioned a couple pages earlier, I was alarmed (me tests made me think my cooling design was conservative) at how hot the pendent heatsinks got in an environment that was 5-10˚F warmer than my own home. Luckily I was able to up the air flow by adjusting fan speed.
-R
TheFishMan65
New member
I realize a fan maybe needed, and the option is there in my design. But I am with DWZM efficiency, efficiency, efficiency. So avoiding the fan is my goal. Also noise, but there are ways around that too.
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
It's hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like there's a slot along the "top" of the shape? How big is that?
Looks like there's slots along the side every inch or so, too?
Really weird that there are fins on the INSIDE of the extrusion. It's almost like it's inside-out from what an ideal design would be? Maybe I missed this, but do you know the original use of those pieces?
Curious because it's been pointed out that a fully-square shape is relatively poor, since the "inner" surfaces all just radiate onto each other, and there's no good airflow without a fan. I'm wondering if the slots in your pieces will help negate those disadvantages.
Looks like there's slots along the side every inch or so, too?
Really weird that there are fins on the INSIDE of the extrusion. It's almost like it's inside-out from what an ideal design would be? Maybe I missed this, but do you know the original use of those pieces?
Curious because it's been pointed out that a fully-square shape is relatively poor, since the "inner" surfaces all just radiate onto each other, and there's no good airflow without a fan. I'm wondering if the slots in your pieces will help negate those disadvantages.
TheFishMan65
New member
There was some sort of a bulb that needed to be cooled. The light was allowed out the long slot (0.3 x 14.5). The air went in the side slots at the bottom and out the ones at the top.
No this is probably not ideal. But I think for a convection cooling it is better than a large heat sink (the ones in the center get very little air flow). My thinking on this is that the LEDs will transmit the heat to the flat side. It will dissipate up the side on into the internal fins. The heat will form a air flow that sucks in from the sides and flows out through the top slit.
What might be better is to mount the LEDs on the sides between the slots. So the heat get to the fins faster. Still have a good convection in the slots on the bottom and out the top. At that point you could cut out everything, but the fins and get 2 sinks out of one. It would be a one inch strip about a half inch tall. Anyone do any aluminum work? Mounting becomes harder I was going to use the three holes in the end for mounting.
Thoughts
No this is probably not ideal. But I think for a convection cooling it is better than a large heat sink (the ones in the center get very little air flow). My thinking on this is that the LEDs will transmit the heat to the flat side. It will dissipate up the side on into the internal fins. The heat will form a air flow that sucks in from the sides and flows out through the top slit.
What might be better is to mount the LEDs on the sides between the slots. So the heat get to the fins faster. Still have a good convection in the slots on the bottom and out the top. At that point you could cut out everything, but the fins and get 2 sinks out of one. It would be a one inch strip about a half inch tall. Anyone do any aluminum work? Mounting becomes harder I was going to use the three holes in the end for mounting.
Thoughts
crvz
Team RC
Been plowing through this thread, and others, but I have a couple of ignorant questions. Links are fine, as the data may be here and I'm simply not finding it. First, if I chose to run meanwell eln-60-48p drivers, without any real intent of dimming them in the immediate future, do I have to hook up an input to the dimming line? Or another question, is the default for the driver to run at max output when getting a 0V input?
Second, with a neptune AC3, is there a way to directly hook up the meanwell for dimming purposes, or would I have to upgrade to a newer controller?
Second, with a neptune AC3, is there a way to directly hook up the meanwell for dimming purposes, or would I have to upgrade to a newer controller?
SWINGRRRR
Premium Member
Yes, they have to have something. 10v is 100% so with nothing you get 0%. You could use a 9v battery just stuck on there, but obviously you'll only get 90% power.
I don't know of anyway to dim with AC3. I wish I did. :sad2:
I think, but I'm not sure the Apex has a couple of output sockets.
dnahas
Premium Member
it does, 0-10 V output for dimmer/variable speed but they would need the eln-60-48D and NOT the eln-60-48p to use that signal.
can it use this driver to run 12 X 3w led ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Driver-Adju...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414e25de41
http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Driver-Adju...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414e25de41
hllywd
Premier World Traveler
crvz,
The Apex has four 0-10V outputs. My ultimate plan when I upgrade to an Apex is to use two of the outs for my Tunzes (unless I go back to Vortechs...), one for my blues, and one for my whites. Right now I'm using ACIII too, there doesn't seem to be any way to use it for dimming, my profiles are all full anyway.
You do need to provide an analog dc voltage signal to the dimming circuit, I believe 10vdc is full on 0vdc is off. I think initially I'm going to use a variable wall-wart with a 9vdc setting until I upgrade controllers, at 9vdc I should get all the brightness I need. From what I read, generic wall-warts run high anyway so maybe the 9vdc setting will be around 10 anyway.
BTW, for the Apex you want "D" drivers, not "P".
Tim
The Apex has four 0-10V outputs. My ultimate plan when I upgrade to an Apex is to use two of the outs for my Tunzes (unless I go back to Vortechs...), one for my blues, and one for my whites. Right now I'm using ACIII too, there doesn't seem to be any way to use it for dimming, my profiles are all full anyway.
You do need to provide an analog dc voltage signal to the dimming circuit, I believe 10vdc is full on 0vdc is off. I think initially I'm going to use a variable wall-wart with a 9vdc setting until I upgrade controllers, at 9vdc I should get all the brightness I need. From what I read, generic wall-warts run high anyway so maybe the 9vdc setting will be around 10 anyway.
BTW, for the Apex you want "D" drivers, not "P".
Tim
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
In theory, yes, but it strikes me as a little sketchy (no manufacturer stated, no datasheet linked, efficiency is a little poor).
Neogenocide
New member
Or just buy a meanwell, it would be cheaper as well after shipping.
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-3/driver-700ma-48v-drivers/Detail
Scott
I have the meanwell "D" drivers, and am wondering if a 12v wall wart sent through this http://cgi.ebay.com/LM317-DC-In-5-24V-Out-2-5-12V-Volt-Regulator-Converter_W0QQitemZ230452329040QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a8077a50 will take care of the 10v requirement for dimming until I upgrade to an Apex controller?
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
Yes - plug that into your 12v wall wart and adjust the pot on it for a 10v max (check with a multimeter) then plug in your meanwell and it'll run at 100%.
You could even use that as a dimming control by adjusting the pot to lower voltages, but you MUST be careful to not go over the 10v limit.
You could even use that as a dimming control by adjusting the pot to lower voltages, but you MUST be careful to not go over the 10v limit.
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