Kyuss
Megistered Rember
Thanks much, I'll figure out a new layout with another string added since I was at 48 before. I'd rather have a bit more extra with dimming than not enough and have to right it right back apart to add more.
DIY LEDs - The write-up
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Thanks much, I'll figure out a new layout with another string added since I was at 48 before. I'd rather have a bit more extra with dimming than not enough and have to right it right back apart to add more.
kcress
New member
NasotheHutt; I can't stress enough how bad an idea it is for us to use these high voltage drivers. I've got decades of experience building and working on line voltage, high voltage, and extremely high voltage devices, and even I wouldn't go that route. It's just flat not necessary.
Don't take this as an attack. For you to look at all this stuff and still think you need an DC supply tells me you're a noob at this stuff. It's just an observation I have to make for your safety. We're all noobs at things before we get experienced. In most cases lack of experience isn't fatal. In this one it could be!
You can easily run 24 LEDs per ELN60-48 using the parallel method. It's not hard. It's been done and described dozens of times. That would provide your 3 fixtures with 48 LEDs each with 6 ELNs. That's about the limit of what I'd suggest someone uses in their home. That's a simple clean way to go with your build. If you want more LEDs then I would suggest you find an HLG or do the DIY CAT drivers.
NasotheHutt
New member
OK, I hear ya. I am indeed a noob. (I have only one array of 24 LED's under my belt) I'm comfortable working around this stuff, just not engineering it so I appreciate the help. The ELN60-48 sounds like a winner. A few quick questions though. What size fuses should I use and should they go on the positive or negative side of the sting? And, what's the best method for placing them in the ckt? terminal blocks? I'm not crazy about un-insolated connections... (but then again I guess all of the soldering on the stars is)
Kress, I follow your posts, as I'm just starting to wrap my mind around leds. What was your meaning " That's about the limit of what I'd suggest someone uses in their home. "? Do you mean total #'s of leds. 144 leds? Thanks Bond
TheFishMan65
New member
I thought he used to say 8, but ELNs can cause issue at start up. They have very large start up current. This might blow the circuit breaker.
They are also not power factor corrected. So as I understand they draw all the power at one time and may blow the circuit.
kcress did I get that right.
They are also not power factor corrected. So as I understand they draw all the power at one time and may blow the circuit.
kcress did I get that right.
brassmonkyballs
BMB
HLGs arrive!
HLGs arrive!
My HLGs arrived today. They are real and they exist! I won't be getting to them till maybe this weekend at best for one of my builds. I took the top off one to have a peek inside....but they are sealed and waterproof.....I was curious if there was a hidden pot in there to adjust max output.
But...they feature 3 in 1 dimming via the output cable. So you can simply use different resistors across the dimming wires for one method...100k ohm gives 100%, 90k ohm give 90%, etc down to 10k ohm for 10%. The 2nd method is variable DC 0-10V in which case every 1v gives 10% output. The 3rd is PWM where the duty value of 100% gives 100% output and for every 10% duty the output drops 10%.
So Kcress here's a question: do you think it possible to put a 90k ohm resistor for example to limit it to 90% output and then use a dimmer pot or PWM for dimming? Curious....
edit to add: The difference in dimming with these is when nothing is applied to the dimming wires the open circuit allows 100% output...they actually say 102%-108%...where as the ELNs output nothing with open circuit.
HLGs arrive!
My HLGs arrived today. They are real and they exist! I won't be getting to them till maybe this weekend at best for one of my builds. I took the top off one to have a peek inside....but they are sealed and waterproof.....I was curious if there was a hidden pot in there to adjust max output.
But...they feature 3 in 1 dimming via the output cable. So you can simply use different resistors across the dimming wires for one method...100k ohm gives 100%, 90k ohm give 90%, etc down to 10k ohm for 10%. The 2nd method is variable DC 0-10V in which case every 1v gives 10% output. The 3rd is PWM where the duty value of 100% gives 100% output and for every 10% duty the output drops 10%.
So Kcress here's a question: do you think it possible to put a 90k ohm resistor for example to limit it to 90% output and then use a dimmer pot or PWM for dimming? Curious....
edit to add: The difference in dimming with these is when nothing is applied to the dimming wires the open circuit allows 100% output...they actually say 102%-108%...where as the ELNs output nothing with open circuit.
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TheFishMan65
New member
I wondered about that when I read the spec. I don't think you can mix resistors with anything. The 10 volt of the PWM or secondary supply would over ride it. Now if you could vary the voltage of the PWM you might have something.
brassmonkyballs
BMB
Kinda what I'm thinking...but I have 10V supplies...suppose I can always build a simple circuit with a voltage regulator to limit it...or go buy 9V supplies if I needed it. Which I don't for this build but may for the next one with the 185. Ahh the fun of DIY.
kcress
New member
Check my test build. I think it shows the resistors etc.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1974104&
Number of ELNs, Not LEDs.
More than about 3 could cause an occasional circuit breaker trip. But the real concern is the harmonics they generate. The more the ELNs the more the harmonics in your house wiring. Every case is different but about 6 would be the maximum I'd ever want to see in a house.
You might be able if it was the other way around. You'd drive a voltage divider with your dimmer and that would limit the max out to the driver. But since this is backwards I don't see much chance.
I am looking at commencing an LED project for my 6*3 tank which will be 2 foot deep. I am planning to use the Rapid LED DIY kits. I will be purchasing the 48 LED ultra premium kits which have cool white XP-G R5 Cree LEDs and XP-E royal blue Cree LEDs in a 50:50 mix. With Mean Well ELN-60-48D dimmable drivers. I plan to hook up 1-10v control at some stage hopefully using the Aquatronica dimming units for their T5s. In the mean time i will probably just use manual dimming with a pot and 10v power supply.
I assume these are the right LEDs the other kits use XR-E LEDs. I cant remember which was better?????
I will use pre drilled and tapped heatsinks that are 4.25 *23 inches and hold 24 LEDs each. See picture below.
I am really keen on some feedback and guidance. Such as what angle optic for 24 inch deep and how high should I hand the lights from the water surface. Of course if there are any other suggestions I am keen.
I assume these are the right LEDs the other kits use XR-E LEDs. I cant remember which was better?????
I will use pre drilled and tapped heatsinks that are 4.25 *23 inches and hold 24 LEDs each. See picture below.
I am really keen on some feedback and guidance. Such as what angle optic for 24 inch deep and how high should I hand the lights from the water surface. Of course if there are any other suggestions I am keen.
TheFishMan65
New member
kcress, I am curious so could you explain more? Is the harmonics due to a lack of PFC? Also curious 6 per circuit or per fuse box?
Thanks
Number of ELNs,
More than about 3 could cause an occasional circuit breaker trip. But the real concern is the harmonics they generate. The more the ELNs the more the harmonics in your house wiring. Every case is different but about 6 would be the maximum I'd ever want to see in a house.
OK, Let me see if I am following this? Say my system would require 190 leds with 8 ELNs at 24 leds @ ELN, how would I get around the 8 vs. 6 max used problem? Would you use a larger supply than the ELNs? I will need to factor in current draw for 15amp breaker tripping? Will the harmonics cause light dimming in the house for example? Google, on harmonics suggests plugging a 12v. producing device into a filter will help eliminate these? How do you add more leds to a system? What if you had multi tanks in your home that you wanted to have leds on , could add up to hundreds of leds in your home. What to do?
More than about 3 could cause an occasional circuit breaker trip. But the real concern is the harmonics they generate. The more the ELNs the more the harmonics in your house wiring. Every case is different but about 6 would be the maximum I'd ever want to see in a house.
OK, Let me see if I am following this? Say my system would require 190 leds with 8 ELNs at 24 leds @ ELN, how would I get around the 8 vs. 6 max used problem? Would you use a larger supply than the ELNs? I will need to factor in current draw for 15amp breaker tripping? Will the harmonics cause light dimming in the house for example? Google, on harmonics suggests plugging a 12v. producing device into a filter will help eliminate these? How do you add more leds to a system? What if you had multi tanks in your home that you wanted to have leds on , could add up to hundreds of leds in your home. What to do?
TheFishMan65
New member
Look into the HLG series of drivers.
FishMan, Question for you @ Kcress's [ You can easily run 24 LEDs per ELN60-48 using the parallel method. It's not hard. It's been done and described dozens of times. That would provide your 3 fixtures with 48 LEDs each with 6 ELNs. That's about the limit of what I'd suggest someone uses in their home. That's a simple clean way to go with your build. If you want more LEDs then I would suggest you find an HLG ]
Is this saying, if you put the leds in parallel you could do 48 @ ELN in other words, total of 6 ELNs x 48 = 288 leds could in theory be used at what Kcress feels would be safe? If you would use the HLG series how many leds would the hlg80 handle vs. hlg120? All this info is trying to settle in my brain. Thanks.
Is this saying, if you put the leds in parallel you could do 48 @ ELN in other words, total of 6 ELNs x 48 = 288 leds could in theory be used at what Kcress feels would be safe? If you would use the HLG series how many leds would the hlg80 handle vs. hlg120? All this info is trying to settle in my brain. Thanks.
TheFishMan65
New member
That would be 4 strings on an ELN. So the 1.3 amps would be split so each string would only get 325ma> IMHO a little on the low side. 3 at 433 maybe reasonable
I don't know the HLG specs off the top of my head and it depends on other factors. Take the output voltage and divide by the forward voltage of your LED at the current you want. This tells you how many per string. Take 80% of the output current and divide the your desired current. This tells you how many strings.
However isn't the HLG80 80 watts so 80 watts / 3 watts per LED = 26-27 LEDs. If that is right the 120 would be 40. Depends on actual wattage you run them at.
I don't know the HLG specs off the top of my head and it depends on other factors. Take the output voltage and divide by the forward voltage of your LED at the current you want. This tells you how many per string. Take 80% of the output current and divide the your desired current. This tells you how many strings.
However isn't the HLG80 80 watts so 80 watts / 3 watts per LED = 26-27 LEDs. If that is right the 120 would be 40. Depends on actual wattage you run them at.
brassmonkyballs
BMB
The HLG 42-120 is 42V 2.9A. Since the XP's seem to run 3.2-3.3V I feel you can get away with 12 in a string at 700ma by 4 strings for a total of 48
The 42-185 is 42V 4.4A so should be about to get away with 6 strings
TheFishMan65
New member
I haven't worked with the HLG you might be right. I went with the recommendation of under driving a little (80%). If they are getting hot then you may want to use less power to lengthen the life. If only a little warm go for it.
Sorry FishMan, since your on line a few more questions. Here goes. Am I right, you are saying 12 leds@ string with 4 strings = 48 leds, then with the 1.3 amp output of a ELN-48-60 / by 4 strings = 325ma. or 1.3 / by 3 strings = 433ma. so you mean 3 strings are better because min. ma. on the XPG's is 350ma. ? Yes? Is 12 the rule for # of leds @ string ? Specs on a XPG says 350ma. produces 139 lm. with 1500ma. max drive current. If you divide the 350ma into the 1500ma max =4.28 x 139lm. = 595.7lm. is this correct? is the # of lm you would get at 1500ma.? Am I on the right track so far? What is the typical running current DIYs try to use? +-750-1000ma? So back to, you are saying in the formula you gave on a ELN-60-48, you take output voltage of 48v. divided forward voltage of your led-XP-G 3.0vf @ 350ma. This tells how many leds @ string. Would this be 48 / 3 = 16 @ string? Then take 80% of the output current of 1.3a = 1.625 divided by desired current, would be 1.625 divided by 350ma = 0046428??? This tells how many strings? Wher am
TheFishMan65
New member
Yes
Sort of, at lower currents you get less light and you need more LEDs.
No, Driver output voltage divided by the forward voltage you will be running at. usually 12-14.
No, it would be nice but IIRC it is only about 350% read the datasheet chart.
Yes
Yes, but most run a little more than 350ma at 3 volts.
I hope you are in Sylvanio Ohio
. 80% of 1.3 is 1.04. 1.04 Amps / 350 milliamps = 1.04 amps / .35 amps = 2.97 strings.Now from what I have read I would feel comforatble running the ELN at 1.3 amps. So really 1.3 / .35 = 3.7. I haven't heard enough about the HLGs to say the same thing.
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