DIY LEDs - The write-up
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
- Status
tperk9784
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15313931#post15313931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by serhiyi
Not sure about model you need. I called PowerGate today about ELN-60-48D.
They told that this model is on back order with waiting time about 9 weeks
Basically same thing they told me about the 27V model. I have still had no luck finding another supplier that has them and I just don't like any of the alternatives I am finding.
Tim
Hello All,
I just found this post… and have to say it is great to see everyone collaborating together to find a great solution, I read the first 10 pages of the original post and a few of the newer posts so sorry if I repeat anything. For the last 2-3 years I have been planning something like this. My issue is that I have a large tank (like several of you noted) and need almost 9 feet of light… With over 240 LED’s I can not afford or do not want to afford the Buckpuck so I have had electrical engineers try to figure it out for me. It has been too long so please ignore the out of date options on the specific LED choices. After a fair amount of looking at the spectrums of each of the LED’s I decided to use 11 Red Luxeon III, 25 Blue K2, 14 Cyan K2, 75 Royal Blue K2, 100 White K2 totaling over 25,069 lumens at 1.4 amps. More recently I started to look at the Cree and would use the XR for Red and XRE for most of the rest, this way you get the most lumens for each LED. I have a layout of the LED’s so you can see the layout I had, the numbers are for each power supply, the color is the color of the LED. I was planning on using wide angle lenses to spread the colors and to make it all uniform with the different colors I am using. The thing I liked about the LED choice is that I hit the Moon light spectrums, and the UV spectrums where the corals grow. I am not sure I would use the Plexi below the LED’s as it will take some of the spectrum out, I do not have a good answer other than by using the lenses I would protect the LED and make sure to use something to protect the wiring etc from salt spray. I suppose anything you use should be as thin as possible.
LYNXVS, I wonder if using the Red and blue in addition would have helped your SPS? Also I think the block design of the one you mentioned is not as good as having complete LED coverage (by that I mean instead of having a square of Led’s then nothing then more LED’s).
I even had them figure out how to control everything from my Aquacontroller. They were going to build power supplies using PWM so I could dim everything on and off throughout the day and over the night… it would have been so cool but with the complexity came time spent trying to figure it all out. I still do not have the light started. There were going to be 8 power channels so I was going to stagger the turn on and off to simulate the sun rise and fall even with the spectrum of the lights.
So I have to give huge credit to Soundwave for keeping to the KISS principal, just keep it simple, sure you could add more lights and even use the light percentages I used to give you the natural spectrum over the coral reefs but keep it simple. One great thing about this thread is seeing that everyone is trying to make this viable and in doing so the cost of everything and the complexity will be lessened. I see resentment to the place that builds these commercially name intentionally omitted, I think it should be noted that part of the reason many of us even started to try this is partially due to them… I thought it would be cool, then found they did it, talked with them about how theirs worked and think I built a superior design with the use of multiple LED’s and a much higher concentration meaning huge coral growth (in theory). Having a place commercially build and test the theory first meant to me that it may be possible to make work.
OK, sorry for the long post, but I have spent years dreaming about this, you rock Soundwave!
I just found this post… and have to say it is great to see everyone collaborating together to find a great solution, I read the first 10 pages of the original post and a few of the newer posts so sorry if I repeat anything. For the last 2-3 years I have been planning something like this. My issue is that I have a large tank (like several of you noted) and need almost 9 feet of light… With over 240 LED’s I can not afford or do not want to afford the Buckpuck so I have had electrical engineers try to figure it out for me. It has been too long so please ignore the out of date options on the specific LED choices. After a fair amount of looking at the spectrums of each of the LED’s I decided to use 11 Red Luxeon III, 25 Blue K2, 14 Cyan K2, 75 Royal Blue K2, 100 White K2 totaling over 25,069 lumens at 1.4 amps. More recently I started to look at the Cree and would use the XR for Red and XRE for most of the rest, this way you get the most lumens for each LED. I have a layout of the LED’s so you can see the layout I had, the numbers are for each power supply, the color is the color of the LED. I was planning on using wide angle lenses to spread the colors and to make it all uniform with the different colors I am using. The thing I liked about the LED choice is that I hit the Moon light spectrums, and the UV spectrums where the corals grow. I am not sure I would use the Plexi below the LED’s as it will take some of the spectrum out, I do not have a good answer other than by using the lenses I would protect the LED and make sure to use something to protect the wiring etc from salt spray. I suppose anything you use should be as thin as possible.
LYNXVS, I wonder if using the Red and blue in addition would have helped your SPS? Also I think the block design of the one you mentioned is not as good as having complete LED coverage (by that I mean instead of having a square of Led’s then nothing then more LED’s).
I even had them figure out how to control everything from my Aquacontroller. They were going to build power supplies using PWM so I could dim everything on and off throughout the day and over the night… it would have been so cool but with the complexity came time spent trying to figure it all out. I still do not have the light started. There were going to be 8 power channels so I was going to stagger the turn on and off to simulate the sun rise and fall even with the spectrum of the lights.
So I have to give huge credit to Soundwave for keeping to the KISS principal, just keep it simple, sure you could add more lights and even use the light percentages I used to give you the natural spectrum over the coral reefs but keep it simple. One great thing about this thread is seeing that everyone is trying to make this viable and in doing so the cost of everything and the complexity will be lessened. I see resentment to the place that builds these commercially name intentionally omitted, I think it should be noted that part of the reason many of us even started to try this is partially due to them… I thought it would be cool, then found they did it, talked with them about how theirs worked and think I built a superior design with the use of multiple LED’s and a much higher concentration meaning huge coral growth (in theory). Having a place commercially build and test the theory first meant to me that it may be possible to make work.
OK, sorry for the long post, but I have spent years dreaming about this, you rock Soundwave!
captivefrag
New member
tagging along for the ride...
Bzar
New member
Hi.
I'd just like to say AMAZING thread. Thank you.
I do have a technical question. I'm starting a shallow 90 gallon tank and would like to do a LED fixture. The tank dimentions are 48" long, 24" wide, 18" deep. I was wondering how many lights would be advised for this tank? Would it be best to add another heatsink because of the width?
Last question is, I've seen a few people ask it, but no answer's....or maybe I missed it, but does anyone know if these blue lights are equal to the blue's listed in the first build?
https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1775
thanks.
I'd just like to say AMAZING thread. Thank you.
I do have a technical question. I'm starting a shallow 90 gallon tank and would like to do a LED fixture. The tank dimentions are 48" long, 24" wide, 18" deep. I was wondering how many lights would be advised for this tank? Would it be best to add another heatsink because of the width?
Last question is, I've seen a few people ask it, but no answer's....or maybe I missed it, but does anyone know if these blue lights are equal to the blue's listed in the first build?
https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1775
thanks.
I would think that because your tank is more shallow, you can space the LED's out more than I was planning, you should have all LED's attached to a heatsink, I would get a heatsink close to the 24X48" size, start LED's 3-4 inches from the front, 2-3 inches from the back and sides. More concentration over the planned Rockwork and corals. Based on my usage you would have 8 LED rows and 16 Columns, maybe cut that by a third, so 7 Rows and 12 Columns which is about 84 LED's. If you use the Buckpuck I think I heard they can handle 6 LED's so you would need 14 of them... Thus the reason I was trying to find a better power source.
Without a Bin number you do not know what you are purchasing, also you do not know what you are doing to your fish. I would not buy any LED without the Binning info and specs. You will need to know it for setting up the power and everything.
Without a Bin number you do not know what you are purchasing, also you do not know what you are doing to your fish. I would not buy any LED without the Binning info and specs. You will need to know it for setting up the power and everything.
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
I really wish I could find it, but I can't - there was an article a few months/years ago in one of the online magazines where they tested coral response to specific wavelengths of light. I'm pretty sure they did it with LEDs, too. The results of the article were pretty interesting - if I remember correctly, one of the conclusions was that red light may actually be damaging to coral growth.
Off to search some more. . . I know the article has been at least mentioned in this thread so maybe there's a link somewhere. . .
Bzar, like with any lighting, it depends on what your goals are with the tank. Comparing to other people who have had setups running for a little while, the rig big400g is suggesting would be very much on the high end of the intensity range (84+ LEDs over a 90g). If you had lesser requirements, you could drop that number a bit. The 75g Soundwave put his fixture over is similar to yours in dimension, and he used 48 LEDs.
With regards to that DX LED you linked, there's absolutely no way for any of us to know if it is "equivalent" to the high-bin blue or royal blue XR-Es most in this thread are using, since there are no specs given - we can't tell exactly *which* XR-E that is. For a larger-volume order, etgtech.com seems to be the place to get "known good" blue XR-E for the best price.
Bzar
New member
Right on, thanks a lot for the help. I think I'll try out 60 LED''s because I do have limited cash for this......and a wife that is quick to anger 
Like you said it depends what I want to do with this. Well I'm mainly interested in LPS, but I was thinking I'd position the few SPS I'll get directly under the lights.
Since I am building my rock work out of aragocrete I'll be making an expandable rock platform for under the lights. I'll post vid's when I begin work
Like you said it depends what I want to do with this. Well I'm mainly interested in LPS, but I was thinking I'd position the few SPS I'll get directly under the lights.
Since I am building my rock work out of aragocrete I'll be making an expandable rock platform for under the lights. I'll post vid's when I begin work
JoshuaG
New member
I looked for it as well, no luck. In the meantime, this thread is some good reading
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1496092&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
This isn't it either, but is also interesting:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/5/aafeature
They used LEDs to grow zoox under specific spectra of light. There are a few statements in there to the effect of "red isn't good" but it's mostly weak wording and suggests that a little bit of red is OK. (of course, the white and cool-white LEDs we are using have a fair amount of red spectrum already.)
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/5/aafeature
They used LEDs to grow zoox under specific spectra of light. There are a few statements in there to the effect of "red isn't good" but it's mostly weak wording and suggests that a little bit of red is OK. (of course, the white and cool-white LEDs we are using have a fair amount of red spectrum already.)
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
Ok, here is the article I was originally talking about:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1
dogstar74
Premium Member
Question for the EEs out there. I want to run a wire from the 24V supply to the lamp fixture for my LEDs. It will be 24V and about 5A draw. So what gauge wire do I need to run about a 6-10ft length? I would like to keep it as narrow of a gauge as possible so that the wire doesn't pull the fixture away from center, as this will be a hanging fixture. But I don't want resistance and heat robbing the Emitters of performance.
Please advise.
Thanks,
Aaron
Please advise.
Thanks,
Aaron
Very good info! I was trying to give a little UV for them to grow and I could have been just killing them with radiation. I was not going to use many reds and spaced out, but... not worth killing everything. I planned on using a very wide angle difuser on the reds to spread out the UV rather than a spot light.
Yes my setup is excessive, I suppose that is the way I do everything, which is not really a good thing.
Is there anyone using a red LED in their setup in the 627nm wavelength?
If so please let me/us know what you think.
Yes my setup is excessive, I suppose that is the way I do everything, which is not really a good thing.
Is there anyone using a red LED in their setup in the 627nm wavelength?
If so please let me/us know what you think.
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
(Disclaimer: I realize this is getting off topic a bit, but IMHO is relevant to chosing the right mix of LEDs.)
big400g, I think it's important to keep the context of that article in mind - they were basically spotlighting a specific species of coral with ONLY a certain wavelength - so who knows how those results correlate to our rigs!
Here is an interesting graph I found in a different article. It shows the spectrum of sunlight at different water depths:
Compare that to the spectrum of a common MH lamp, such as the IceCap 400w 20k:
Now compare to a "cool white" LED. Look at the blue line in this graph:
The MH light is just plain weird, spikey all over the place. This is very typical of MH. Of course, MH is well proven so it's hard to draw conclusions about potential negative effects of this sort of spectral curve. Looking at the sunlight plot, you can see that the red end of things drops off to almost nothing quickly as water gets deeper. Looking at the LED curve, you can see that there is already a fair amount of "red" content in a "cool white" LED.
Draw your own conclusions, and I'm sure that a small number of red LEDs mixed in to a huge array wouldn't make much of a difference, but IMHO if anything, LED rigs already have a little more red than other reef lighting technologies, not less.
In terms of spectrum, the one advantage a DIY LED rig has over any other type of reef lighting is that you can mix and match to get the *exact* spectrum you want, more or less. Of course this may be a double-edged sword!
big400g, I think it's important to keep the context of that article in mind - they were basically spotlighting a specific species of coral with ONLY a certain wavelength - so who knows how those results correlate to our rigs!
Here is an interesting graph I found in a different article. It shows the spectrum of sunlight at different water depths:
Compare that to the spectrum of a common MH lamp, such as the IceCap 400w 20k:
Now compare to a "cool white" LED. Look at the blue line in this graph:
The MH light is just plain weird, spikey all over the place. This is very typical of MH. Of course, MH is well proven so it's hard to draw conclusions about potential negative effects of this sort of spectral curve. Looking at the sunlight plot, you can see that the red end of things drops off to almost nothing quickly as water gets deeper. Looking at the LED curve, you can see that there is already a fair amount of "red" content in a "cool white" LED.
Draw your own conclusions, and I'm sure that a small number of red LEDs mixed in to a huge array wouldn't make much of a difference, but IMHO if anything, LED rigs already have a little more red than other reef lighting technologies, not less.
In terms of spectrum, the one advantage a DIY LED rig has over any other type of reef lighting is that you can mix and match to get the *exact* spectrum you want, more or less. Of course this may be a double-edged sword!
So maybe I missed it - but when factoring in the number of overall LED lights needed for a tank, what is the guideline then? We are not really looking at watts per gallon anymore so is it just color spectrum we are after or coverage?
And I believe optics handle depth then, correct?
As I noted earlier I'm going to go ahead I think and play with a 20 gallon I have just to test this out. I believe it is around 24" x 12" x 16" so I'm thinking 12 or so lights.
2 meanwells for sure.
6 white
6 royal blues
But at the end of the day I'm drawing blank on overall number of leds in regards to the size of the aquarium. Its always been watts per gallon depending on the type of coral you keep.
And I believe optics handle depth then, correct?
As I noted earlier I'm going to go ahead I think and play with a 20 gallon I have just to test this out. I believe it is around 24" x 12" x 16" so I'm thinking 12 or so lights.
2 meanwells for sure.
6 white
6 royal blues
But at the end of the day I'm drawing blank on overall number of leds in regards to the size of the aquarium. Its always been watts per gallon depending on the type of coral you keep.
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
saf1, ignore the specral discussion, it is definitely a tangent to this thread and not really critical for most folks.
I don't think there are any hard and fast rules for LED lighting, yet. If you search a certain popular nano reef forum for an LED thread similar to this one, you'll find other people with tanks about the same size as yours to get some ideas from.
That said, I think you are close - number of LEDs should be roughly related to surface area of the tank (for good coverage), and the current you drive them at, plus wether or not you use optics, should be related to the depth and desired intensity of lighting (i.e. softies or clams?)
Soundwave's tank is a 75g, 48" x 18" surface area, 21" tall (if I am remembering standard 75g dimensions correctly!) So, 864 square inches of surface. He used 48 LEDs. That's about 18 square inches per LED. Other people have closer to 10 square inches per LED (i.e. almost twice the density of Soundwave).
Following those rough guides, your 20g tank should have roughly 16 - 28 LEDs for good coverage. On two of that standard mean well people keep talking about in here, you could hit 24 LED (12 on each) and be comfortably powerful.
FWIW, I am building an LED array for a 12g tank right now, with a 16" x 16" surface (12" deep if you're keeping score). I am using 12 white LED, 6 blue, and 6 royal blue. I am planning on running them at less current than most (probably 500mA, instead of the 700 - 1000mA most use) and hoping it's enough light to keep common SPS. I guess I'll know for sure in a few months!
I don't think there are any hard and fast rules for LED lighting, yet. If you search a certain popular nano reef forum for an LED thread similar to this one, you'll find other people with tanks about the same size as yours to get some ideas from.
That said, I think you are close - number of LEDs should be roughly related to surface area of the tank (for good coverage), and the current you drive them at, plus wether or not you use optics, should be related to the depth and desired intensity of lighting (i.e. softies or clams?)
Soundwave's tank is a 75g, 48" x 18" surface area, 21" tall (if I am remembering standard 75g dimensions correctly!) So, 864 square inches of surface. He used 48 LEDs. That's about 18 square inches per LED. Other people have closer to 10 square inches per LED (i.e. almost twice the density of Soundwave).
Following those rough guides, your 20g tank should have roughly 16 - 28 LEDs for good coverage. On two of that standard mean well people keep talking about in here, you could hit 24 LED (12 on each) and be comfortably powerful.
FWIW, I am building an LED array for a 12g tank right now, with a 16" x 16" surface (12" deep if you're keeping score). I am using 12 white LED, 6 blue, and 6 royal blue. I am planning on running them at less current than most (probably 500mA, instead of the 700 - 1000mA most use) and hoping it's enough light to keep common SPS. I guess I'll know for sure in a few months!
- Status
