DIY Nano/pico build off Any one?

DIY Nano/pico build off Any one?

  • Abso-Freakin-lutly

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • hmmm....I could be persuaded

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • Maybe...If my other half wouldn't kill me for trying

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • No...My other half would kill me...and you too!

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Total voters
    16
Hi All,

I’ve not really commented on the build off topic, but Jason has talked at me of every possible angle, rule change, and possible idea. In the interest of saving a bit of time (and my sanity) I’m going to try to get things moving along here a bit. If this doesn’t work for everyone, it’s not set in stone!

Below is a proposal of the complete rules for the build off. They will be voted on at the next (Jan 19thish? Meeting). If there is a rule you want to change (or add) please state which rule it will be replacing. Word your rule change as you would like to see it, with discussion following. The rules will be voted in or out on a line by line basis at the next meeting. To be voted on a rule must be posted here by no later than the Thursday before the meeting at 8:00pm. You must be at the meeting to vote.

Rules

1. By entering this contest you agree to show good sportsmanship. You agree to help educate others by providing full information and good documentation about the tank you are building, and at the conclusion of this contest understand that you may be asked to move your tank to a public location for display. You understand that you and your entry may be used as a positive example of NMOK.

2. This contest will run for a space of six months, from a start date of Feb. 1st 2007 to an end date of August 1st 2007. Late entries will be allowed, but may be penalized.

3. DIY is mandatory, NO pre assembled tank set ups" ie. nano cubes or aqua pods." Equipment such as pumps, lights, reflectors, the TANK (i.e... a bare tank with no pre-installed equipment), heaters, and plumbing accessories may be purchased for this contest. It will be the contestant’s responsibility to record the cost/source of purchased equipment.

4. All contestants will need to keep all receipts/invoices related to their entry.

5. All contestants must publish on their “thread” a list of where they obtained everything used in the build-off and what the cost was to them. If an item was obtained by means other than retail, an estimated value must also be provided, along with a retail source (and retail price) where that or a similar item could be purchased. Only the actual amount you spent will be counted toward your actual dollar amount. The estimations and retail listings are so that others can use your tank as an example (“Go here, spend THIS, and you too can have a tank that looks like THAT.”).

6. The exception to rule number five is livestock from your own tank. As a gesture of good sportsmanship if you use rare or limited frags from your tank that would be difficult for others in this competition to obtain (ex. Extra-Super-Rare-Thing-I-Traded-My-Mother-For-And â€"œSell-Online-For-$$$$$$$-For-A-1/16th Inch-Frag), please note that and give an estimated value to be counted toward your actual amount spent. If the judges disagree with your assessment of your livestock, they have the right to open up a dialog with you so that an agreed upon value can be reached.

7. Tanks will be judged in two groups
a) Five gallon total water volume or less.
b) More than five gallons and up to ten gallons of total water volume.

8. You may enter your tank in one or more of the following categories:
a) Spent less than $200
b) Low/No Impact tank
c) Best DIY
d) Best Aesthetics
e) Best Overall
f) Other Themes (Please specify your theme on entering)

8. Judges may participate in this contest, but their individual entries will not be eligible for awards. Judges may participate in group entries, but may not judge their entry, or any entry in direct competition with them.

9. There will be three judges for this competition. In the event a judge enters a part of a group entry, a guest judge or judges may be asked to participate to keep things fair. The three judges will be responsible for obtaining the awards for this competition.

10. A thread titled “(My Name Goes Here) Entry for the Tank Build Off” in the NMOK reef central forum is counted as an entry in this competition. In your first post please state your name and the names of your team members, if any. Also state which group and categories you will enter with this tank, along with a little about your original idea. Please keep one thread per tank.

11. The projects will be judged first on overall health of the system then on beauty/diversity of live stock, and finally on overall cost. Bonus points for creativity and keeping threads updated will be given. If two tanks are judged to be equal preference will be given to the tank with the more complete thread (pictures, water chemistry tests, etc… are all good information to include).

12. To be placed at the close of this competition you must be a NMOK member. If you are considering entering this contest you are strongly encouraged to join the club.

13. A unanimous vote of all three judges is required for disqualification

This was typed out pre-coffee, and reviewed why still blurry eyed. Mistakes and typos are to be expected!
Regards,
Colleen
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8962929#post8962929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leena
Hi All,


5. All contestants must publish on their “thread” a list of where they obtained everything used in the build-off and what the cost was to them. If an item was obtained by means other than retail, an estimated value must also be provided, along with a retail source (and retail price) where that or a similar item could be purchased. Only the actual amount you spent will be counted toward your actual dollar amount. The estimations and retail listings are so that others can use your tank as an example (“Go here, spend THIS, and you too can have a tank that looks like THAT.”).


I have a concern about this particular rule. I believe the actual costs, or a reasonable value, should be counted against the $200.00 limit. (Assuming this is one of the categories you intended to compete in.)

By my understanding, one of the reasons we wanted to have this contest was to show others that they can get into the hobby without spending thousands of dollars on a setup and livestock. If we don't count the actual costs or reasonable value against the limit, those who are able to obtain "donated" items would be able to set up tanks that could never be done by the average person interested in starting in the hobby for $200.00 or less. If we are going to have a $200.00 or less category, I believe it should truly be $200.00 in total setup expenses.

Bottom line, I believe rule 6 regarding livestock should also apply to hardware. Any thoughts?
 
diy build off

diy build off

Adding up the votes at the top of this thread, we only have 3 certain entries, and 7 probablys.

Any way to get a head count again before the NMOK meeting, so we don't have empty or single-entry categories?

Regarding the previous post and the costs involved...IMO, I could not agree more. With the under 200 buck category, all materials need to be added into the final cost, whether donated or bought, in order to have a level playing field.
 
Ehh, As I do agree with the $200 thing, I also question as to how far this would go. Rule 6 covers just about everything IN the tank, and I think that the judging will also take those concirns into account. If somebody comes up with a 10 gallon bow with solid cherry wood frame, 250mh pendent, VHO supp, dosing pumps etc... and said it was all donated then thats not fair. BUT I think we are all going to play fair. I can tell you that my main "Donations" will be a converted skimmer as a media reactor (est retail is $59) and a dual 96w compact ballast (est retail $29). Other then that, everything needs to be purchased. I PLAN on spending no more then $100 to try and stay within the $200 even with the stuff around the house, but looking around, I MAY go above that.

My main goal out of this is to have fun, and see how cheap I can do it, if I HAVE to go above the $200, well, then thats what I will do but I will try really hard to stay under $200 even with freebies.

BTW: Has anybody found a cheap 5-7.5 gallon acrylic? Those things are freaking expensive. I may just have to make my own.

Oh Yeah, last thing. Just to make it clear, even though the start date would be this friday, that doesent mean you have to have your tank UP and running, in fact you SHOULDENT. All that means is that you start the process. If it takes you a month to get a tank up, then thats fine, its the documentation, planning and end result that the judges care about. :D
 
I understand where you are coming from. My issue is that between the reactor and ballast, you have almost 1/2 of the total allowable costs in donated items. That is a pretty good chunk. Someone who is unable to obtain donated items would have to spend the $88.00 just to have a comparable system. They would then have to spend what you anticipate will be another $100.00 to set up the rest of the system. Leaving $12.00 for sand, rock and livestock. Not a particularly viable option.

We may be kidding ourselves if we think we can set up a tank for less than $200.00 for anything other than softies. And I don't have a problem with setting up a soft coral nano. That may not be what others are excited about doing, but if we are going to have a $200.00 category, then it should be $200.00 in actual costs.

At first, I was a little panicked about the start date. I've taken my meds and am now just excited to get this thing going. Do we have an end date for the judging?
 
Glad to hear that we are in this for FUN! I do think that different categories will show just what talents we have in NMOK, with the die-hard DIY people, the budget-minded people, and/or the truly capable reefers! Can't wait to witness the creativity and learn a thing or two!

I find it interesting to read the threads from other competitions, especially when a nano goes quickly down the drain. I am quite terrified of this happening to my own little tank! Sad, but there's no way I will miss out on the FUN in the meantime!

Here are my suggestions for additional rules:

1) Bonus points shall be given to the reefer who gets Greg's damsels out of his 55 gal!

2) No entry shall be allowed with any fish named Dory or Nemo.

3) All participants shall drink heavily just before posting otherwise uninteresting posts. Pictures shall be required, slightly out of focus.

4) Any mod resembling or incorporating a bong shall be immediately required in all tanks in competition.
 
Greg - darn it! Do you know that posting those four additional rules (the last two) just added a new memeber to NMOK and got me dragged into a nano team?!?

Allen has a valid concern about the $200 issue.

If someone has a $$$$$ of equipment laying around that are going to use in a $200 entry, it wouldn't be very creative or showing good sportsmanship. Would the judges be able to cite rule one and suggest a re-think or category move in a bad case?

If it were just an open to the public competition I would agree that every penny ever spent by anyone should be counted, but this is a club competition. Jay's been given a MH ballast, I've gotten some frags, and a deal on some equipment I wanted. I've also given away livestock, food and equipment that I paid full retail value for. Maybe someone wouldn't be able to walk into a store and build the same tank for $200, but an active club member should be able to come up with something close....

I don't mind either way - as long as Greg's rule number three is accepted. I just like to turn the reins loose and see where everyone ends up.

Regards
 
IMO, Alien has it right. I would think the $200 should include EVERYTHING - all expeditures whether for new, retail equip/goods/livestock, used-stuff, and even "donations". Yeah, I agree with Alex that chances are pretty slim that no one will go overboard with allowable donations as it now stands. But still ... The under $200 category should be just that, totally under $200.

Now for the disclaimer ->

My thoughts on this aren't worth a whole lot (anything) since I'm not going to be entering the competition, although I'd really, really like to. I've got my personal dream nano planned out in my mind ... However, I've just got too many things I need on my main tank right now to spend $200 on a nano. (donations will be accepted of course ;) )
 
Suggested Rule Change

Add Category 8g

My tank is worth less than $200


There. Category 8a deals with total cost. Category 8g deals with total worth. Anyone in 8g should automatincally fit in 8a.

For those who plan tp get as much as they can donated/mooched and make a really cool tank go to 8a. Those who really want to see what they can do for less than $200 actual value go to 8g.

Everyone happy?
 
Proposed rule change/amend to rule 4.

4a. All equipment receipts shall be dated after the official start date.
4b. All livestock receipts shall be dated no later than 2 months before the judging date.

4a. This way everyone is given a fair chance at starting and havent been hording the equipment and receipts since the first post of this thread.
4b. This way an Extra-Super-Rare-Thing-I-Traded-My-Mother-For-And ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“Sell-Online-For-$$$$$$$-For-A-1/16th Inch-Frag which will only has a barely a slight chance to survive in a tank plumbed for constant water changes that are piped from a mile out and 40 feet deep in the ocean, cannot be added at the day before judging in health of that specimen.


Does rule 8a. include marine salt, supplements, food you know the stuff that probably everyone entering the competition has for the use of their non-nano tank they already have?
 
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Ok, after reading the concerns, I have decided to drop the clear media reactor and go with a 2" PVC pipe, endcaps, valve and a pump. That should bring the cost down to $20ish. Thinking about it, that should be more fun anyway and I don't have to destroy another skimmer. :D

I can go either way about the $200 thing. I am just worried that we may have more categories then entries lol. I say we vote on this Friday and the outcome will be FINAL FINAL FINAL.

Just as an idea about what you could do with $200, here is a simple breakdown. Note the expensive tank and the stand. Anybody could easily use a cheaper 5-10 gallon and no stand and move $40 to something else. I also have 2 high quality power heads added, and I am making a media reactor which could be replaced with a bare bottom and bigger water changes:
Here is my basic breakdown:
Tank: $40ish
Stand: $25
Sand: $10
Rock: $25
Livestock: $45
Media Reactor: $20
Salt: $15
Water: $5
Pumps: $20
total: $200

We shall see if it works, hopefully I can find some smoking deals. :D

gregrunningbird
3) All participants shall drink heavily just before posting otherwise uninteresting posts. Pictures shall be required, slightly out of focus.
I COMPLETLY agree with this.
:rollface:

israelnajar
4a. All equipment receipts shall be dated after the official start date.

This opens a WHOLE can of worms. I would say no because this was never stated before and many of us have been planning and pricing stuff since it was mentioned last year. If this was brought up before the approval last meeting, then yes I would say go ahead. BUT it wasn’t and that may put some people at a BIG disadvantage.

4b. All livestock receipts shall be dated no later than 2 months before the judging date

I agree with the concept on this one but there is a big problem, some of us are planning to cycle the tank for a few weeks. I am going to try a speed cycle but this may not be feasible. Also, this means that if somebody has a problem with the tank / crash / etc... they are automatically kicked out. I think that the judges will be able to spot "instant communities" easily, so I have to nix this one. :( (anyways, we will be posting our progress, so anybody who tries this will be equivalent of pulling their pants down in public.)

Does rule 8a. include marine salt, supplements, food you know the stuff that probably everyone entering the competition has for the use of their non-nano tank they already have?
Well, if we go with 8a and 8g, 8A would not count any supplies we have laying around, 8G, you will need to count that as worth. Really this is a non issue because for a 10 gallon (max size tank) you will go thru a maximum of a 25 gallon mix, and the reef crystals 25 can be found as low as $10. if you count it up, a 25 mix will give you your initial 10 gallons (assuming no rocks, or sand) and you can still perform 12.5% water changes weekly which would easily give you your alk, calc, mag, iodine, etc... So either way, your only looking at $10-15 for all supplements. NOW if you tank is really kick butt, you can do 20% changes or use other supplements.

One item that has NOT come up yet is water test kits. My feeling on this is that they do NOT count towards cost. The reason is because you can get free water checks at any good LFS.

Alex
 
You do bring up very good points.

4a No receipts will be dated before the date of the first post of this thread. Although I still believe that receipts should be dated no earlier than the official start date to give EVERYONE a level playing field, since not everyone knew about this competition since it was first conceived.

4b All livestock receipts shall be dated no later than 2 months before the judging date, unless the entrant has a tank crash within x amount of time from the final judging and restocking falls within the 2 month period . Regarding someones tank crashing, well that is the nature of the hobby. But an exception should be given this event so long the entrant has documented the entire process in his/her thread

Regarding stuff laying around after your argument I completely agree.

Testkits I also completely agree with.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9245896#post9245896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asfullax
... so anybody who tries this will be equivalent of pulling their pants down in public ...

Thank you so very much for that lovely mental image ... :hmm5:
 
I don't have a problem not counting the costs of consumable items. (Salt, water, food, chemicals) It would be difficult to calculate costs anyway, as I am not planning on buying a separate bag of salt for this tank. I will just use what I have and am not sure I could easily figure out how much salt I use for the nano. Ok, I guess I could figure it out, but I'm lazy.
 
well i actually doubt i could set up a nano tank for less than $300, but we'll see...considering this i have a bonus rule 1) conner can spend $500
 
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