DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[djfrankie]

This media looks fine please report in a few months to see how it works. It's great to have alternatives

<a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/zachtos/New%20Tank/?action=view&current=DSCF2220.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/zachtos/New%20Tank/DSCF2220.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[djfrankie]

Zachtos,

Is it me or you reactor is leaning to the right side on the pic here?

<a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/zachtos/New%20Tank/?action=view&current=DSCF2218.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/zachtos/New%20Tank/DSCF2218.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Would that cause strain on the Mag's volute and eventually lead to failure?

djfrankie

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11686173#post11686173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by notsofishy
Hey I just started building one of these but im using a smaller cylinder for my media. So I was wondering if I could use the first cylinder for just sulfur media and drip the effluent into a seperate container with ARM media. There would be no recirculating pump in this chamber so the water would be fairly stagnant. Would this be a problem?

The reason for dripping into a reactor full of aragonite media is to raise the ph level coming out of the reactor. The better the contact time with the aragonite the higher the ph will be increased. The ph out of my reactor with aragonite comes out to 7.5. I believe if I take the aragonite media out the ph will drop to about 6.5. (I haven't tested this yet though).

Your aragonite media vessel does not have to be anything fancy.

Do a search and check out how others here do it very cheaply (example: milk jug, pepsi bottle).

There are very creative minds here in RC.

HTH,
djfrankie

 

[notsofishy]

Alright great, thanks alot for the advice. I just wasnt sure how much inline circulation if any would be needed in the cc media.

 

[zachtos]

what i used for a aragonite media chamber

reactor in use

*I can see keeping the flow at a steady drip is already problematic, it plugged once already. I'm sure it'll stay open on it's own once I turn the flow up after the cycle though. I think I calculated my target flow between 65-240ml/minute for 4 liters of sulphur after cycling.

My reactor is not leaning, that was just a shot of it drying. The mag is propped up by a pvc skeleton and I tied the reactor to the support pole since it's kinda wobbly on it's own. I would suggest finding a better way to make it stand on it's own in your own designs, but mine works for now.

The media chamber: I just used a GenX media container that the aragonite came in. I drilled 2 holes in the lid, used a female 1/2" connector on the bottom, and threaded it to a 1/4" threaded barbed plug on the other side. A makeshift bulkhead if you will. I have a 1/2" pipe pushing return water to the bottom of the container, it then comes up to the lid and gets siphoned back out. The water doesn't even come up to the lid seam because I siliconed the thing shut, so it's air tight. This will work just fine in a low flow, low pressure application, and I can visibly see when the media gets low.

 

[siskiou]

Reading about the sponge material and wondering:
is it needed at all in addition to the plate with holes in it (can't think of the correct term for it).

And if yes, do you need another sponge on top of the sulfur, too?
Don't the sponges clog fairly quickly?

I'm picking up some sulfur later today at the hydroponics store and hope to get things going this weekend.

 

[LA-Lawman]

the sponge on the diffuser plate keeps media from clogging the diffuser. the sponges in between layers of media help ensure the media doesn't blend. if you run this in your sump and you use a micron sock or other type screen then u shouldn't get much if any clogging. my CaRX has never clogged. I have been using the same pads for years.

 

[siskiou]

Thanks!

I don't use socks in my set-up, but I could T off the supply line for the reactor from the skimmer.

Oh, and I just found out the the sulfur from the hydroponics place is way too crumbly and would probably fall apart in the reactor very quickly.
I assume that's not what should be used in the denitrator.
Can anyone recommend an online place with reasonable prices/shipping rates?

 

[zachtos]

bghydro.com

 

[siskiou]

I checked into that, but it sounds like it's meant to be used in a vaporizer.
Not sure, but does that mean it's designed to dissolve quickly in water?
Has anyone used it for a while and knows if it's suitable?

 

[zachtos]

siskiou: I'm positive the media that's designed for a vaporizer is fine. It's 99.9% sulphur. Sulphur is sulphur. The only thing that is different is that the media is a bit larger, which is good. I use bulk media for nearly everything I do to save money for my large system. After a while, you'll come to realize that reefkeeping manufacturers repackage chemicals and mark them up 200+% because they know we'll buy them. No need to go out and buy 'reef' calcium hydroxide, Calcium chloride, baking soda, magnesium chloride, coal based carbon, ferric oxide etc etc... It's all a money making scheme. Chemical compounds are no better for the aquarium just because they have a sticker on them.

My sulphur reactor has been running at about 75ml/minute, far above one drip per second, but it keeps plugging up at that low flow... needless to say, as of 48 hours of running, it is at 0.5ppm nitrites in the effluent already. I'm carefully monitoring the nitrites in my 500G to make sure the liverock can handle it.

 

[djfrankie]

A couple of updates to the original design have been implemented.

This should be easier to be made as a DIY for anyone in the future. It should also be cheaper since no acrylic has to be used. Basically all parts can be found at the local hardware store.

I have also repositioned the effluent side on the pump side as indicated by a friend of mine here. This is the positive pressure side of the reactor and I will theoretically be able to obtain a more consistent flow this way. (I haven't tested this)

I made this one for a good friend of mine here in Miami and haven't cleaned it up yet. That will be his job.

Here are the pics:

<a href="http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/?action=view&current=DSC_0155.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/DSC_0155.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


<a href="http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/?action=view&current=DSC_0154.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/DSC_0154.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I've cut the bottom pipe at a 45 degree angle...It might not work better, but it looks better

<a href="http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/?action=view&current=DSC_0158.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/DSC_0158.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Here's a 3" shower drain that fits fine with minor modifications inside the bottom flange:

<a href="http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/?action=view&current=DSC_0156.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/DSC_0156.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

It has to be cut so it can sit over the pipe:

<a href="http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/?action=view&current=DSC_0157.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/DSC_0157.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Here's the media I use. I believe someone asked before:

<a href="http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/?action=view&current=DSC_0159.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/DSC_0159.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

All the pipes that go inside the body has been cut flush so the hands do not get cut up or whatever in there:

<a href="http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/?action=view&current=DSC_0160.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dj_frankie/Modified%20Sulfur%20Reacto/DSC_0160.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Enjoy,
djfrankie

 

[zachtos]

That is a much better design, darn, should have copied that one. The only thing I would change would be some couplings so you can detach/replace the water pump when it fails... notice I said when. They are only like $5 for 2 of the 1/2" couplings and I think it can save you a world of frustration.

I'm still curious about the 'degassing' valve. Is this really necessary? It's easy to add, so I'm not disputing it, but when I was doing my research I read that the nitrogen gas that gets ejected will exit the reactor and bubble out harmlessly through the effluent. What about making the effluent come out of the top instead of the side?

And what should I expect to see for a 'anerobic' bacteria nitrogen cycle in this thing? I'm at just over 0.5ppm nitrites now, so what should be the typical cylce for one of these units? ammonia-->NO2-->NO3-->Nitrogen?

 

[djfrankie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11707097#post11707097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zachtos
That is a much better design, darn, should have copied that one.

Well I did copy something from you

The only thing I would change would be some couplings so you can detach/replace the water pump when it fails... notice I said when. They are only like $5 for 2 of the 1/2" couplings and I think it can save you a world of frustration.

Well the pump is very easy to replace. 1/2 turn and it's out so it can be replaced easily if it does break. The volute on the other hand can also be replaced, but it will take a little more work. Remember we're trying to keep costs down.

I'm still curious about the 'degassing' valve. Is this really necessary? It's easy to add, so I'm not disputing it, but when I was doing my research I read that the nitrogen gas that gets ejected will exit the reactor and bubble out harmlessly through the effluent. What about making the effluent come out of the top instead of the side?

I tried that since cubano2480 had insisted that the effluent on the top will degass at the same, but it didn't work for me. I could not maintain a constant drip. Similar to hydraulic lock. It would have been great if it had worked.

Also, think about it. Every other major manufacturer employs the same method of degassing and they have tested these things to death.

And what should I expect to see for a 'anaerobic' bacteria nitrogen cycle in this thing? I'm at just over 0.5ppm nitrites now, so what should be the typical cycle for one of these units? ammonia-->NO2-->NO3-->Nitrogen?

Usually 3 days if you started a drop per second. Then you ramp it up adding one drop per second every time.. The idea here is not supply the bacteria with oxygen...otherwise it becomes counter productive.

Hey make another one...they're cheap!

HTH,
djfrankie

 

[cubano2480]

looks nicer now!!!

 

[zachtos]

results of my denitrator so far:
cycled at approximately 150-200ml/min
nitrites:0.5ppm day 2&3
day 4: nitrate/nitrite = 0ppm & 200-250ml/min
increased flow to about 250ml/min which equates to 665 gallons/week which will process my tank once every five days basically. The ph of the effluent is approximately 7.45 coming out of the aragonite. My tank ph has dropped from about 8.3 during the day to 8.24, alkalinity seems to have dipped 1dkh from 9, further monitoring will be needed. I will report my results as they progress either positively or negatively.

 

[zachtos]

update:
the sulphur denitrator has lowered the nitrate in my 500G reef by around 5ppm in 2 days so far. It's amazing... the tank has been stuck at 5-15ppm nitrates for months now, even after several waterchanges.

The MAJOR downside so far, is that it is lowering my alkalinity way too fast... 9dkh-->7dkh in 24 hours in 500G of water with a calcium reactor is a big issue. My calcium is still 450ppm, so the denitrator is throwing calc/alk out of balance even w/ the aragonite media chamber. I imagine it would be worse without it. So far this means I must add 4oz of baking soda to my tank each day. I assume the denitrator will slow down when the bacteria catch up and use up all my nitrates and go into 'maintenance mode'. So what I think I may need to do is drip baking soda into my tank via a dripline and a jug of water and top off as needed basically. i know my system requires 2oz/1dkh basically when it is out of balance.

Does anyone think these would work on a freshwater tank? I always had problems w/ nitrates w/ my old cichlid tanks. Seems like it would work to me.

I also may consider building a small one of these for my nano tank when I start it back up w/ my LED array. perhaps this combo of intense light and low nitrates would allow me to keep SPS in my 6G tank!

 

[djfrankie]

Good to see the update!

Look out for the ALK for sure as it is a known factor when you play with these.

I been having to adjust mine once a week from 8 to 10 dkh. No big deal. I use Seachem's reef builder with a one gallon milk jug on a drip line at about 1 drop every few seconds overnight when PH is lowest and bring it right back.

I'm hoping once my nitrates are down to zero and the denitrator just basically has to process daily nitrate reduction that I won't have to make such large ALK increases. We'll see what happens.

In any case, I'm very happy that it works with minimum effort

djfrankie

 

[newreefbishop]

Frankie......you got my PM

Im excited about the prospects of getting this going....

I have also ordered the media from the same location as Zachtos.......ill see how that works.....

 

[bawla47]

well i tried to be all fancy and go with a clear pipe to see inside, and planned to glue the pvc fittings for the top and bottom, but the tube is smaller!


ugh. so pretty much the whole things gonna be custom now, but hopefully it will sure look nice.