DIY Sulfur Denitrator
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saltydog64
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Re: Re: Temperature in SR
Re: Re: Temperature in SR
dj thanks for your reply and as I’m sure you know I fully support you and I appreciate all the time and effort you spend on this thread…thanks.
What follows a summary of my last 5 weeks give or take a week or two, but first a review of tank, due to out of date LaMotte test kit I was careless in my maintenance. The tank is a FOWLR set up using a plenum platform and has up and running since 1995. It has been thru 2 icestorms and once housed a Yellow tang that lived for 14 years so I’m not exactly a rooky, and I what I take it two the next level, so towards that end last November I started a series of water changes, 20 to be exact, from 11/27/07 to 03/15/08. In between I found your great thread and as they say the rest is history. I KNOW this method works and I proved it my self with cycling in out of the bucket.
In my effort to be brief, I left out a bunch of info. The cycling in the bucket got to the point that prams where zero and the bucket nitrates got so low that it was time to hook to the tank.
03/26 hooked it to the tank and I didn’t add NBC #9 or any additives, at that time I was discharging into a bucket to be safe, but it was evident that @ the flow rate (FR) @ 4 d/sec that I was using the bucket would over-flow in less that 24 hours, so I set effluent into the sump.
03/27 test results basically matched the tank, 0 ppm Nitrites, and +150 ppm Nitrates, slowed down FR to approx.1d/sec.
03/28 tests results (out of SR) as the ARM reactor was also hooked up, lots of gas @ vent valve (VV), 2.00 ppm Nitrite, +150 ppm Nitrates. With the NO2 that high and I removed discharge back to bucket.
03/29 tried to force it to go anaerobic by closing all valves and running just the mj for circulation. On 03/30, 24 hours later no skink ???, I didn’t want to leave it this way so I reset FR to approx 1d/ 2 sec.
03/31, a “ton†of gas @ VV and no skink, test: High Nitrites, + 200 Nitrates, so I figured I got to force it anaerobic so once again I shut down and just ran mj. On 04/01 still no skink so figured that the very nitrates where feeding the bacteria and getting O2 from it, so once again I reset FR this time to 1/ 5 sec.(ordered NBC #9 from Midwest aquatics just in case) and then approx 12 hours later “ hello stinky†finally, Nitrite 0 then I reset FR to 1d/ sec (water in flask is hazing, probably bacteria bloom) then on
04/02 lots of gas @ VV and still a little smell with effluent some what hazy, 0 ppm Nitrite and 40 ppm Nitrate, plan is to run this way until Nitrate is 0. On 04/03 collected sample is clear with VERY little gas @ VV and Nitrite 0 and Nitrate + 100 ppm. (actual LaMotte test, a 5% sample was 198 ppm ( 2.25, [between 2 and 3] X 20 X 4.4 = 198). On 04/04 lots of gas @ VV and Nitrite 0 and Nitrate +100 ppm.
04/05 lots of gas @ VV and NOW HIGH Nitrite and Nitrate 308 ppm ( LaMotte test result), glad I ordered NBC #9, on 04/05 no tests I’ll just let it cycle for now, then on 04/06 same results as 04/05, my thought “ this going no where†so I slowed down FR to ½ to approx 0.4 d/ sec. On 04/07 some gas @ VV and High Nitrite and Nitrate 308 ppm. ( a check of the tank water…198 ppm, using LaMotte of course).
04/08 some gas and High Nitrite ( NBC #9 has arrived) so @ 6:00 pm added 1 scoop NBC # 9 to SR and let circulate for 30 mins then set FR to 1d / 2 sec. I started to use quick dip test strips for Nitrite and for the next five days continued to get a High Nitrite readings.
04/15 bumped up FR to 1d/ sec and on 04/17 some gas gas @ VV and High Nitrite. 04/19, 10 days on NBC # 9 no changes and then I checked temperature in the SR and it’s the I found the 90 degrees. I then removed the insulation from SR and let it cool down to 80 and then reseeded the NBC# 9 with ½ scoop, thinking I killed the bacteria in the SR. On 04/20, no gas @ VV and High Nitrite, it’s like starting over and my patient is running out….to say the least.
I think basically what I have run into is a tank with LOTS of Nitrates bonded to the rocks, substrates and what ever……and well maybe I will never get it, I just don’t know….anyhow,
My plan with your input (I’ll make ANY change you suggest) I think will be let it continue to run…………????????
Re: Re: Temperature in SR
dj thanks for your reply and as I’m sure you know I fully support you and I appreciate all the time and effort you spend on this thread…thanks.
What follows a summary of my last 5 weeks give or take a week or two, but first a review of tank, due to out of date LaMotte test kit I was careless in my maintenance. The tank is a FOWLR set up using a plenum platform and has up and running since 1995. It has been thru 2 icestorms and once housed a Yellow tang that lived for 14 years so I’m not exactly a rooky, and I what I take it two the next level, so towards that end last November I started a series of water changes, 20 to be exact, from 11/27/07 to 03/15/08. In between I found your great thread and as they say the rest is history. I KNOW this method works and I proved it my self with cycling in out of the bucket.
In my effort to be brief, I left out a bunch of info. The cycling in the bucket got to the point that prams where zero and the bucket nitrates got so low that it was time to hook to the tank.
03/26 hooked it to the tank and I didn’t add NBC #9 or any additives, at that time I was discharging into a bucket to be safe, but it was evident that @ the flow rate (FR) @ 4 d/sec that I was using the bucket would over-flow in less that 24 hours, so I set effluent into the sump.
03/27 test results basically matched the tank, 0 ppm Nitrites, and +150 ppm Nitrates, slowed down FR to approx.1d/sec.
03/28 tests results (out of SR) as the ARM reactor was also hooked up, lots of gas @ vent valve (VV), 2.00 ppm Nitrite, +150 ppm Nitrates. With the NO2 that high and I removed discharge back to bucket.
03/29 tried to force it to go anaerobic by closing all valves and running just the mj for circulation. On 03/30, 24 hours later no skink ???, I didn’t want to leave it this way so I reset FR to approx 1d/ 2 sec.
03/31, a “ton†of gas @ VV and no skink, test: High Nitrites, + 200 Nitrates, so I figured I got to force it anaerobic so once again I shut down and just ran mj. On 04/01 still no skink so figured that the very nitrates where feeding the bacteria and getting O2 from it, so once again I reset FR this time to 1/ 5 sec.(ordered NBC #9 from Midwest aquatics just in case) and then approx 12 hours later “ hello stinky†finally, Nitrite 0 then I reset FR to 1d/ sec (water in flask is hazing, probably bacteria bloom) then on
04/02 lots of gas @ VV and still a little smell with effluent some what hazy, 0 ppm Nitrite and 40 ppm Nitrate, plan is to run this way until Nitrate is 0. On 04/03 collected sample is clear with VERY little gas @ VV and Nitrite 0 and Nitrate + 100 ppm. (actual LaMotte test, a 5% sample was 198 ppm ( 2.25, [between 2 and 3] X 20 X 4.4 = 198). On 04/04 lots of gas @ VV and Nitrite 0 and Nitrate +100 ppm.
04/05 lots of gas @ VV and NOW HIGH Nitrite and Nitrate 308 ppm ( LaMotte test result), glad I ordered NBC #9, on 04/05 no tests I’ll just let it cycle for now, then on 04/06 same results as 04/05, my thought “ this going no where†so I slowed down FR to ½ to approx 0.4 d/ sec. On 04/07 some gas @ VV and High Nitrite and Nitrate 308 ppm. ( a check of the tank water…198 ppm, using LaMotte of course).
04/08 some gas and High Nitrite ( NBC #9 has arrived) so @ 6:00 pm added 1 scoop NBC # 9 to SR and let circulate for 30 mins then set FR to 1d / 2 sec. I started to use quick dip test strips for Nitrite and for the next five days continued to get a High Nitrite readings.
04/15 bumped up FR to 1d/ sec and on 04/17 some gas gas @ VV and High Nitrite. 04/19, 10 days on NBC # 9 no changes and then I checked temperature in the SR and it’s the I found the 90 degrees. I then removed the insulation from SR and let it cool down to 80 and then reseeded the NBC# 9 with ½ scoop, thinking I killed the bacteria in the SR. On 04/20, no gas @ VV and High Nitrite, it’s like starting over and my patient is running out….to say the least.
I think basically what I have run into is a tank with LOTS of Nitrates bonded to the rocks, substrates and what ever……and well maybe I will never get it, I just don’t know….anyhow,
My plan with your input (I’ll make ANY change you suggest) I think will be let it continue to run…………????????
Just a thought Saltydog,
How much sulfur are you using. compared to what your total water volume is ?
Maybe you are using more than your demand call's for
When I spoke to Midwest & ordered my sulfur, they recommend 2 lbs. for my 50 gal. I thought that was a lot of sulfur to use. I ordered the 2 lbs but I am only using about 12 oz. ( Nothing like more spare parts !) so far everything is working well, my drip rate is about 11ml. per min. roughly 2/3 a liter an Hr. which equals to 2x the rate of sulfur to flow.
Reactor reads 0 No3, display is about 7ppm & dropping
Hope this info. will help
Steve
:smokin:
How much sulfur are you using. compared to what your total water volume is ?
Maybe you are using more than your demand call's for
When I spoke to Midwest & ordered my sulfur, they recommend 2 lbs. for my 50 gal. I thought that was a lot of sulfur to use. I ordered the 2 lbs but I am only using about 12 oz. ( Nothing like more spare parts !) so far everything is working well, my drip rate is about 11ml. per min. roughly 2/3 a liter an Hr. which equals to 2x the rate of sulfur to flow.
Reactor reads 0 No3, display is about 7ppm & dropping
Hope this info. will help
Steve
:smokin:
saltydog64
New member
Steve---------Excellant thought, as I was just thinking (well last night) about the sulfur, the amount, and well I was thinking I don't have enough in there. Its been so long since I reset it up I actually don't remember EXACTLY how much is in there, I'm bad:smokin: :smokin:
I took a look at the residue container and I bet I didn't use 1/3 of it so maybe not enough??? I await dj's thoughts on this and well wait. :rollface: :rollface:
Thanks for your help, Steve as I know I'll get this, it's just now I'm back on the course and time is going to be lean. Poor me.:lol: :lol:
Dick
saltydog64
New member
rolyguy Great results, you lucky person. We're on the subject of how much sulfur in the SR, so how much do you use and how big is your unit, and yes please post those pics.
Dick
djfrankie
In Memoriam
Saltydog64,
It may seem like a silly question to ask, but
Which Seachem product are you using? I really hope is not the carbon matrix.
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Matrix.html
or
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/MatrixCarbon.html
I’ve read all 34 pages here (again) and looked for all pertinent information regarding your issues. Here’s a summary of it:
Started unit 2/21 â€"œ 1/3 LSM â€"œ 2/3 matrix â€"œ
2/22 â€"œ 3/1 Could not cycle unit
3/1 adds sugar and recirculates unit
3/3 increased flow VV
3/4 zero nitrite and nitrate
3/5 cloudy water …changed water and 1 dps
3/7 Sugar overdrives reactor…unit cleaned and restarted
3/18 Shutdown feed pump closed circulation
3/19 VV 1 dps
3/20 Increased flow 2.4 dps 8 am
3/20 Decreased flow 1.5 dps 10:30 pm
3/21 VV
3/22 VV Temp 80-82 F
3/23 3.5 dps
3/26 4 dps hooked up to tank
3/27 1 dps nitrate levels same as tank
3/28 VV back into bucket
3/29 closed circulation no gases so
3/30 lowered flow 1 d every 2 second
3/31 vv
4/1 1 d every 5 seconds
12 hours later 1 dps
4/2 VV no3 100+
4/4 VV no3 100+
4/5 Nitrite high nitrate 308
4/6 same .5 drop per second
4/7 same
4/8 added 1 scoop of NBC9 1 drop every 2 seconds
4/15 1 dps
4/17 VV
4/19 checked temp removed insulation reseeded NBC9 ½ scoop
4/20 patience running out
There is a trend of drip adjustments here which are not normal and I’ll tell you why.
During the initial cycle all effluent adjustments should be very minimal. This gives time for the anaerobic bacteria to catch up. +1 drop per adjustment should be all that’s necessary during the beginning phases of it. I cannot emphasize this enough, especially in your tank, with such high nitrate levels.
By the addition of sugar and later NBC#9 you have basically overdriven the unit time and time again. There is possibly an accumulation of bacterial mats within your media.
This is what I recommend you do at this time and you may not be happy, but you asked me for my suggestion and here it is:
If possible try to bring down your tank’s nitrate levels to 50 or less by doing water changes. I know you’re probably tired of them by now, but such is life in this hobby. Lower starting levels will speed up your end results.
Tear down the reactor and wash all media. Here’s the proper way to do it:
Wash sulfur media completely in RO water several times until you no longer see any build up. You can also wash it in regular tap water, but you will have to let the media sit in a bucket with dechloriating tablets for about 24 hours.
Fill the reactor with the new clean media and add the rest of the container as well. We’re trying to get the unit to cycle as fast as possible and to be able to maintain higher flow rates. More media = higher flow = Lower nitrates levels in your tank quicker. Top off the rest with new Matrix (the white media, not carbon)
Run it wide open for 24 hours outside tank like you were doing before.
Close the effluent valve to drip 1 drop per second.
Add 1/3 scoop of NBC#9 inside reactor. It is better to add less than too much. This is highly concentrated and you don’t want to over do it. You may also want to dose it to your tank since you already bough it. Follow the included instruction.
Test for nitrates only after 3 days. If zero nitrates you’re going to adjust the effluent rate just +1 drop no more and then let it catch up. Test again every 3 days and ONLY adjust if you have zero nitrates out of the effluent. Don’t bother testing for nitrites at this time just nitrates.
Don’t forget to vent the unit.
I wish I had a simpler solution for you at this time.
Here’s a pic of your reactor. I just placed it here for future reference.
djfrankie
It may seem like a silly question to ask, but
Which Seachem product are you using? I really hope is not the carbon matrix.
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Matrix.html
or
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/MatrixCarbon.html
I’ve read all 34 pages here (again) and looked for all pertinent information regarding your issues. Here’s a summary of it:
Started unit 2/21 â€"œ 1/3 LSM â€"œ 2/3 matrix â€"œ
2/22 â€"œ 3/1 Could not cycle unit
3/1 adds sugar and recirculates unit
3/3 increased flow VV
3/4 zero nitrite and nitrate
3/5 cloudy water …changed water and 1 dps
3/7 Sugar overdrives reactor…unit cleaned and restarted
3/18 Shutdown feed pump closed circulation
3/19 VV 1 dps
3/20 Increased flow 2.4 dps 8 am
3/20 Decreased flow 1.5 dps 10:30 pm
3/21 VV
3/22 VV Temp 80-82 F
3/23 3.5 dps
3/26 4 dps hooked up to tank
3/27 1 dps nitrate levels same as tank
3/28 VV back into bucket
3/29 closed circulation no gases so
3/30 lowered flow 1 d every 2 second
3/31 vv
4/1 1 d every 5 seconds
12 hours later 1 dps
4/2 VV no3 100+
4/4 VV no3 100+
4/5 Nitrite high nitrate 308
4/6 same .5 drop per second
4/7 same
4/8 added 1 scoop of NBC9 1 drop every 2 seconds
4/15 1 dps
4/17 VV
4/19 checked temp removed insulation reseeded NBC9 ½ scoop
4/20 patience running out
There is a trend of drip adjustments here which are not normal and I’ll tell you why.
During the initial cycle all effluent adjustments should be very minimal. This gives time for the anaerobic bacteria to catch up. +1 drop per adjustment should be all that’s necessary during the beginning phases of it. I cannot emphasize this enough, especially in your tank, with such high nitrate levels.
By the addition of sugar and later NBC#9 you have basically overdriven the unit time and time again. There is possibly an accumulation of bacterial mats within your media.
This is what I recommend you do at this time and you may not be happy, but you asked me for my suggestion and here it is:
If possible try to bring down your tank’s nitrate levels to 50 or less by doing water changes. I know you’re probably tired of them by now, but such is life in this hobby. Lower starting levels will speed up your end results.
Tear down the reactor and wash all media. Here’s the proper way to do it:
Wash sulfur media completely in RO water several times until you no longer see any build up. You can also wash it in regular tap water, but you will have to let the media sit in a bucket with dechloriating tablets for about 24 hours.
Fill the reactor with the new clean media and add the rest of the container as well. We’re trying to get the unit to cycle as fast as possible and to be able to maintain higher flow rates. More media = higher flow = Lower nitrates levels in your tank quicker. Top off the rest with new Matrix (the white media, not carbon)
Run it wide open for 24 hours outside tank like you were doing before.
Close the effluent valve to drip 1 drop per second.
Add 1/3 scoop of NBC#9 inside reactor. It is better to add less than too much. This is highly concentrated and you don’t want to over do it. You may also want to dose it to your tank since you already bough it. Follow the included instruction.
Test for nitrates only after 3 days. If zero nitrates you’re going to adjust the effluent rate just +1 drop no more and then let it catch up. Test again every 3 days and ONLY adjust if you have zero nitrates out of the effluent. Don’t bother testing for nitrites at this time just nitrates.
Don’t forget to vent the unit.
I wish I had a simpler solution for you at this time.
Here’s a pic of your reactor. I just placed it here for future reference.
djfrankie
djfrankie
In Memoriam
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12376803#post12376803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by amashun
here is my update, i didn't expect it is that quick for the reactor to kick in, only 2 days, here is my result:
i've increased the drip to 2drips per sec. thanks DJ and Black again
Good to hear!
djfrankie
rolyguy7
Member
Here's my pics. I had this made in acrylic. I wanted something that looked good and wouldn't take up much space. There's about 1 liter of media in each chamber.
Tanks Nitrates down at 5-10 ppm from 35-40ppm last week.
Few more shots of my setup. I run this off a T off my main pump.
Effluent Nitrates at 0ppm
Tanks Nitrates down at 5-10 ppm from 35-40ppm last week.
Few more shots of my setup. I run this off a T off my main pump.
Effluent Nitrates at 0ppm
Last edited:
rolyguy7
Member
Next to a gallon container so you can see it's size. It's not very big at all and it's working great on a 175Gal Oceanic bowfront .
Top view as you can see I'm using quick release fittings
Here's where it T's off my main pump
Effluent line back to the sump
Current effluent drip rate
Top view as you can see I'm using quick release fittings
Here's where it T's off my main pump
Effluent line back to the sump
Current effluent drip rate
rolyguy7
Member
Good question. The bottom part of the acrylic. I can take some pictures of it if you'd like. Basically the bottom part has 3 layers of acrylic. The center layer has been cut in a oval shaped between the two sections. Water flows from the top sulfur side down through the center layer and back up the aragonite side.
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