DIY Sulfur Denitrator
- Thread starter JohnL
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L8ndeb
Registered Reef Keeper
Want to put one of these together. I went to HD, but found they did not have what I needed. Lowe's had the parts (flanges and 4" pipe), but only in ABS. I want to know, anybody know where to purchase the parts in PVC, and if not, can this be built using ABS? Is ABS cement toxic when dry? Will I have problems glueing my PVC pipe to the ABS? Thanks
Belgian Anthias
New member
AquaMaxx Nanostar Calcium Reactor As Sulfur Denitrator ?
AquaMaxx Nanostar Calcium Reactor As Sulfur Denitrator ?
I am thinking of using the Aquamaxx Nano Star Calcium Reactor as
a sulfur denitrator.
http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaMaxx_Nano_Star_Calcium_Reactor_Calcium_Reactors-AquaMaxx-UJ00170-FICRRA-vi.html
The pump does recirculate the water through the media chamber before
returning it to the tank. It is a hob unit.
I have about 40ppm nitrate from our well water so water changes only do so much.
The filter would be used on 55gal african cichlid tank. I know this is a saltwater forum - I am posting this here because there isnt much discussion of sulfur denitrators on freshwater forums and because I am thinking about a 29 gal tank I have to a small reef tank.
AquaMaxx Nanostar Calcium Reactor As Sulfur Denitrator ?
I am thinking of using the Aquamaxx Nano Star Calcium Reactor as
a sulfur denitrator.
http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaMaxx_Nano_Star_Calcium_Reactor_Calcium_Reactors-AquaMaxx-UJ00170-FICRRA-vi.html
The pump does recirculate the water through the media chamber before
returning it to the tank. It is a hob unit.
I have about 40ppm nitrate from our well water so water changes only do so much.
The filter would be used on 55gal african cichlid tank. I know this is a saltwater forum - I am posting this here because there isnt much discussion of sulfur denitrators on freshwater forums and because I am thinking about a 29 gal tank I have to a small reef tank.
Belgian Anthias
New member
A sulfur denitrator works very good. I do not know at what PH Afrikan cilcid
are kept but be aware the the PH will be lower. it will clean your well-water but for a small tank it is difficult to manage.
Belgian Anthias
New member
My sulfur nitrate reactor - its a converted Aquamaxx Nano Star Calcium reactor.
Been running since 2-24-2013.
Theres about 1 cup of CaribSea LSM in the bottom, then Seachem De-Nitrate, then CaribSea Aragonite on top.
You are using two different anaerobic de-nitrification methods in the same reactor. Sulphur de-nitration depletes buffering capacity and lowers PH. The Seachem de-nitrate will do the opposite as long as there is enough nitrate to consume. So the one stabilizes the other. Good thinking. But what happens if after the sulphur there is no nitrate left? This is very difficult to manage I would think;
How must the effluent be rated? For the sulphur or for the Seachem? I personally would not use the two different methods in the same reactor? The Seachem material has a high surface area and supports a high density of bacteria but has no supporting ( energetic) capacity and must be handled differently as the Sulphur.
Question for the experts. I recently got my sulfur reactor going. Very high nitrates in a FOWLR tank, made me investigate the reactors. Anyway, I talked with someone about the benefits of the reactor that I have seen already. Nitrates are flowing out zero, and have been for about 3-4 weeks now. Anyway, he said he hated sulfur reactors because they didnt remove the phosphates, and you needed to contend with those just as much. Of course he also said his got smelly and soured his tank. I understand that the sulfur needs the nitrates to feed on, or it can create that rotten egg smell, but my question is this.....Is he right that the phosphates will still be a big problem and cause algae and dirty tank problems? Thanks in advance everyone.
Bill
Bill
Belgian Anthias
New member
In my opinion sulphur de -nitration is the safest de-nitration method available on the long term. And the cheapest. It has no great commercial value, so not often recommended. A sulphur de-nitrator has an influence on the phosphates but does not remove them all. A phosphate remover as there is " Diakat" can be added if necessary.
Is there any natural de-nitration method that also removes phosphates?
And the risk for rotten egg smell produced by the LR in the system and for other de-nitration methods is al lot higher than for a Sulphur de-nitrator, If a fluidized bed reactor is used this risk is practically zero. And the reactor is manageable!
I started up my sulfur reactor on 2-24 and on 3-2 my nitrite from the effluent spiked past 5 on the Api color chart and the nitrate in the effluent dropped to about 20 or 30.
On 3-5 the effluent nitrite dropped to about 1 - 2 and the effluent nitrate remained about 20-30.
On 3-7 the effluent nitrite was at 0 and effuent nitrate was at 0 as well -finally cycled !
This was at a very slow drip rate - 1 drop every 6 -8 seconds.
On 3-5 the effluent nitrite dropped to about 1 - 2 and the effluent nitrate remained about 20-30.
On 3-7 the effluent nitrite was at 0 and effuent nitrate was at 0 as well -finally cycled !
This was at a very slow drip rate - 1 drop every 6 -8 seconds.
So because I am going to be eventually running this reactor on a larger and more heavily stocked tank I decided to make some modifications - pics below:
The bottom and top layers of media are now CaribSea Sulfur and the middle layer is Seachem De-Nitrate. The output from this chamber feeds into a second chamber pictured below:
The bottom layer of media in this chamber is sulfur, the top layer is aragonite. This chamber is a converted Phosban reactor. I used some push-to-connect fittings and pvc couplings and reducers from the local plumbing shop to connect the airline tubing the 1st chamber uses to the 1/2" ID tubing the Phosban uses.
This is the whole unit installed on my tank. I am now using an airline regulator valve to adjust the flow rate - it is far easier to dial in the desired flow rate with this valve than with the micro valve that I was using before.
The bottom and top layers of media are now CaribSea Sulfur and the middle layer is Seachem De-Nitrate. The output from this chamber feeds into a second chamber pictured below:
The bottom layer of media in this chamber is sulfur, the top layer is aragonite. This chamber is a converted Phosban reactor. I used some push-to-connect fittings and pvc couplings and reducers from the local plumbing shop to connect the airline tubing the 1st chamber uses to the 1/2" ID tubing the Phosban uses.
This is the whole unit installed on my tank. I am now using an airline regulator valve to adjust the flow rate - it is far easier to dial in the desired flow rate with this valve than with the micro valve that I was using before.
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Belgian Anthias
New member
Adding Seachem de-nitrate
Adding Seachem de-nitrate
Please tell me why the Seachem de-nitrate is added to the Sulphur-reactor. What is the reason and the advantage for adding Seachem de-nitrate?
Adding Seachem de-nitrate
Please tell me why the Seachem de-nitrate is added to the Sulphur-reactor. What is the reason and the advantage for adding Seachem de-nitrate?
Brett, in my opinion, you should really raise your outflow to 2 drops per second. 1 drop every 6-8 seconds will not only run the reactor out of nitrates, but not do anything for your tank....unless you put it on a 10 gallon or less. Once you are getting the zero nitrates out, keep dialing it up, check the outflow every couple days to see if its still zero, if it is, dial it up more, if it starts showing nitrates, then dial it back just a bit and leave it. I started my reactor 6 weeks ago and its putting out zero nitrates at about 6-7 drops per second. Still dialing it up because it keeps coming out zero. Basically the reactor cant have too many nitrates, but if it does not get enough, it can start smelling and make a weird white film.
Belgian, there is no reason to have any media in there except sulfur and aragonite. Anything else will just cause you to have to clean and change out media more often. In fact the de-nitrator might take some nitrates away from the sulfur, causing it to starve, and that is very bad. I have heard people had their reactors running for 2-3 years without cleaning, as long as there is still sulfur in there and nitrates to absorb. If I were him, I would take that out, as it will cause a potential problem.
Belgian, there is no reason to have any media in there except sulfur and aragonite. Anything else will just cause you to have to clean and change out media more often. In fact the de-nitrator might take some nitrates away from the sulfur, causing it to starve, and that is very bad. I have heard people had their reactors running for 2-3 years without cleaning, as long as there is still sulfur in there and nitrates to absorb. If I were him, I would take that out, as it will cause a potential problem.
I thought since the De-Nitrate has a greater area for the bacterial colony to grow on the colony would get larger and the reactor more efficient as a result.
It took 11 days for the 1st version of the reactor to drip 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates out in a tank with 40-60 ppm nitrates so the De-Nitrate didnt seem to be hurting.
Btw the 1st version of the reactor was the 1st chamber only - the converted AquaMaxx Nano Star Calcium reactor.
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Just be careful that the reactor does not run out of nitrates, I have heard that gets smelly and bad. I thought the bacteria only grow within the sulfur, as a reaction, but I am not sure.
As a gauge, my denitrator only has the sulfur, then aragonite, and it took 3 days to cycle to zero ppm. That is coming from a tank with over 100ppm, and I had a drip rate of 2 drops per second when cycling.
As a gauge, my denitrator only has the sulfur, then aragonite, and it took 3 days to cycle to zero ppm. That is coming from a tank with over 100ppm, and I had a drip rate of 2 drops per second when cycling.
Belgian Anthias
New member
Thiobacillus denitrificans
Thiobacillus denitrificans
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/chagedor/biol_4684/Cycles/Soxidat.html
The above link will explain everything there is to know about Sulphur and why it is used as media to cultivate Thiobacillus denitrificans. It also explains why it is practically not possible that H2S will be found in the effluent provided channelling and clogged media is prevented ( fluidized reactor).
Any container that can be made airtight is suitable to make a fluidized sulphur denitrator.
The big advantage to carbon based methods is that the type of bacteria cultivated is known and there is always sulphur available as energy source. They do not depended on Nitrate or carbon to survive.
By carbon based methods the risk for a die of of the bacteria due to lack of energy source is considerable which can be problematic. The best and cheapest way to break down nitrate is the tube de-nitrator but it is not used because it is not manageable.
I would not add Seaghem de-nitrate to a Sulphur reactor.
Thiobacillus denitrificans
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/chagedor/biol_4684/Cycles/Soxidat.html
The above link will explain everything there is to know about Sulphur and why it is used as media to cultivate Thiobacillus denitrificans. It also explains why it is practically not possible that H2S will be found in the effluent provided channelling and clogged media is prevented ( fluidized reactor).
Any container that can be made airtight is suitable to make a fluidized sulphur denitrator.
The big advantage to carbon based methods is that the type of bacteria cultivated is known and there is always sulphur available as energy source. They do not depended on Nitrate or carbon to survive.
By carbon based methods the risk for a die of of the bacteria due to lack of energy source is considerable which can be problematic. The best and cheapest way to break down nitrate is the tube de-nitrator but it is not used because it is not manageable.
I would not add Seaghem de-nitrate to a Sulphur reactor.
Some jury-rigging and experimenting over the last few weeks
Some jury-rigging and experimenting over the last few weeks
Ok I so allowed the de-nitrator to run from 3-10-2013 until 3-26-2013 with no real progress.
So on the 26th I made some changes. First I replaced the second chamber with a makeshift de-nitrator (not sulfur) that I made from a 1000ml water bottle from Sports Authority and some barbed fittings. (The original second chamber that I made from a Phosban reactor was converted into a single chamber sulfur de-nitrator - more about that one in a future post.)
The new second chamber is on the left sitting in an old Aqua-Clear filter that I had laying around. It is filled with about 600ml sulfur and 200ml aragonite.
For those unfamiliar with the AquaMaxx calcium reactor I made the first chamber from, the pump is on the bottom of the reactors lid. The pumps intake has a fitting that sucks water from the main tank into the chamber.
below this fitting is an inlet that sucks water from between the top media plate and the lid for the reactor. The water is then pumped down to the bottom of the reactor and flows up through the media and eventually out of the reactor through a fitting in the lid.
When the Phosban reactor was the second chamber I thought the fact that the outflow from the second chamber was restricted would be enough to force the water to recirculate through the first chamber enough to allow the reactor to be effective. I was wrong and I think that is why the reactor was far less efficient when setup this way.
When I replaced the second chamber on the 26th I decided to make a change to make water recirculate through the entire reactor.
The fitting at the rear left of the reactor in the pic was the outlet from the first chamber and fed the second chamber.
The fitting in front of it was the co2 inlet which I had blocked off with a piece of airline tubing tied into a knot.
The return from the second chamber was fed into the airline gang valve which is used to regulate the drip rate back to the tank.
I ran a piece of tubing from the second valve on the airline gang valve to a tee fitting I had installed on the water inlet line to the first
chamber. This setup returned any water that wasnt dripped into the tank back to the first chamber thus making both chambers recirculating. The unit was cycled by the 30th with 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate. However the drip rate was unstable - the pump was sucking gas into it and this would stall the intake of water into the first chamber for a few moments untill the gas cleared the intake line.
There was alot of gas as well - watching the bubbles race around the tubing was like watching crowded cars of people racing around a roller coaster! I didnt have a de-gas valve in use at this time.
To get around this I made further changes on 4-1-2013. I installed a makeshift de-gas valve using the ph probe port at the front of the reactor. I switched the co2 fitting which was blocked off previously to the water outlet to feed the second chamber. I chose this fitting to be the water outlet because it extended about 1/2" lower into the reactor than the ph probe port which was now home to a de-gas valve. The fitting at the rear left became the inlet for water returning from the second chamber that hasnt dripped back to the tank. I ran some tubing from that port on the inside of the lid through a hole on the side of the outlet nozzle on the pump - I was hoping the incoming water would be forced to the bottom of the reactor and recirculated along with rest of the water in the chamber but instead the water was forced out of this tubing - the opposite of what I was looking for.
On 4-3 I took the inlet nozzle from the pump and drilled a small hole in it just large enough to allow one side of an airline tee to be inserted snugly through it. I drilled the hole directly across from the fitting that sucks the water from the main tank. I put one side of an airline tee in the hole, blocked the opposite fitting on the tee off with some tubing tied off in a knot and connected the middle fitting of the tee to the fitting which was allowing in water from the gang valve that hadnt dripped back into the tank. This allows that water to be pulled into the pump immediately and pumped to the bottom of the first chamber and recirculated through the entire unit. This also doesnt stall the intake of water from the main tank into the reactor as was happening previously.
As of today 4-5 about 40 hours after making that last change the reactor has cycled with 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate in the effluent.
Some jury-rigging and experimenting over the last few weeks
Ok I so allowed the de-nitrator to run from 3-10-2013 until 3-26-2013 with no real progress.
So on the 26th I made some changes. First I replaced the second chamber with a makeshift de-nitrator (not sulfur) that I made from a 1000ml water bottle from Sports Authority and some barbed fittings. (The original second chamber that I made from a Phosban reactor was converted into a single chamber sulfur de-nitrator - more about that one in a future post.)
The new second chamber is on the left sitting in an old Aqua-Clear filter that I had laying around. It is filled with about 600ml sulfur and 200ml aragonite.
For those unfamiliar with the AquaMaxx calcium reactor I made the first chamber from, the pump is on the bottom of the reactors lid. The pumps intake has a fitting that sucks water from the main tank into the chamber.
below this fitting is an inlet that sucks water from between the top media plate and the lid for the reactor. The water is then pumped down to the bottom of the reactor and flows up through the media and eventually out of the reactor through a fitting in the lid.
When the Phosban reactor was the second chamber I thought the fact that the outflow from the second chamber was restricted would be enough to force the water to recirculate through the first chamber enough to allow the reactor to be effective. I was wrong and I think that is why the reactor was far less efficient when setup this way.
When I replaced the second chamber on the 26th I decided to make a change to make water recirculate through the entire reactor.
The fitting at the rear left of the reactor in the pic was the outlet from the first chamber and fed the second chamber.
The fitting in front of it was the co2 inlet which I had blocked off with a piece of airline tubing tied into a knot.
The return from the second chamber was fed into the airline gang valve which is used to regulate the drip rate back to the tank.
I ran a piece of tubing from the second valve on the airline gang valve to a tee fitting I had installed on the water inlet line to the first
chamber. This setup returned any water that wasnt dripped into the tank back to the first chamber thus making both chambers recirculating. The unit was cycled by the 30th with 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate. However the drip rate was unstable - the pump was sucking gas into it and this would stall the intake of water into the first chamber for a few moments untill the gas cleared the intake line.
There was alot of gas as well - watching the bubbles race around the tubing was like watching crowded cars of people racing around a roller coaster! I didnt have a de-gas valve in use at this time.
To get around this I made further changes on 4-1-2013. I installed a makeshift de-gas valve using the ph probe port at the front of the reactor. I switched the co2 fitting which was blocked off previously to the water outlet to feed the second chamber. I chose this fitting to be the water outlet because it extended about 1/2" lower into the reactor than the ph probe port which was now home to a de-gas valve. The fitting at the rear left became the inlet for water returning from the second chamber that hasnt dripped back to the tank. I ran some tubing from that port on the inside of the lid through a hole on the side of the outlet nozzle on the pump - I was hoping the incoming water would be forced to the bottom of the reactor and recirculated along with rest of the water in the chamber but instead the water was forced out of this tubing - the opposite of what I was looking for.
On 4-3 I took the inlet nozzle from the pump and drilled a small hole in it just large enough to allow one side of an airline tee to be inserted snugly through it. I drilled the hole directly across from the fitting that sucks the water from the main tank. I put one side of an airline tee in the hole, blocked the opposite fitting on the tee off with some tubing tied off in a knot and connected the middle fitting of the tee to the fitting which was allowing in water from the gang valve that hadnt dripped back into the tank. This allows that water to be pulled into the pump immediately and pumped to the bottom of the first chamber and recirculated through the entire unit. This also doesnt stall the intake of water from the main tank into the reactor as was happening previously.
As of today 4-5 about 40 hours after making that last change the reactor has cycled with 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate in the effluent.
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Ok I had the drip rate at about 1 drop per six or seven seconds for the last few days while the reactor was cycling and I noticed the rotten egg smell when testing the effluent.
I had the drip rate so low to ensure that all the oxygen in the reactor got used up while it was cycling. I was going to increase it when the effluent hit 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate.
Since I am getting 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate I opened the outflow all the way for about 20 seconds and then adjusted the flow to about 1 drop per 3 seconds.
The rotten egg smell is much less noticeable now. I will increase the flow rate again in the morning if there are still 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate in the effluent.
I had the drip rate so low to ensure that all the oxygen in the reactor got used up while it was cycling. I was going to increase it when the effluent hit 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate.
Since I am getting 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate I opened the outflow all the way for about 20 seconds and then adjusted the flow to about 1 drop per 3 seconds.
The rotten egg smell is much less noticeable now. I will increase the flow rate again in the morning if there are still 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate in the effluent.
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