DIY surge device?

[DeepSeaBeauti]

Im sure by now many of you know im trying to find the best way to get water movement in my tank. 125g display thats 6' long with integrate rock wall/cave and two large islands. I have stumbled upon a device called a Carlson surge device. Anyone have any experence with these? Also is there a design that does not have to be above the tank? I know thanks to the designs ive seen this system relys on gravity, but i dont have a canopy so it would be hard to hide a large tank above mine. Maybe you guys could help me figure out how much water it would take to get a surge if the device is mounted at the same hight as the tank. Water is about 8lbs/gal, so i would have to get enough to over come gravity. Any sugestions?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

The most popular (I say that with some reservation, as it's not really THAT popular at-large) in-tank surge device is the REVERSE Carlson surge device. It uses the same principle as the Carlson surge, but it's mounted in the tank.

Otherwise, pretty much every surge system I've seen that's a reasonable DIY effort requires mounting above the display tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Give Paul at Oceans Motions a call... He has something that will move water back and forth over the 6' span with great efficiency and a lot less hassle than trying to setup an RCSD.

 

[DeepSeaBeauti]

Give Paul at Oceans Motions a call... He has something that will move water back and forth over the 6' span with great efficiency and a lot less hassle than trying to setup an RCSD.

Ive seen these but once again were talking about large amounts of money for just the water diverter. Then you have to include the pump, and plumbing. Call me cheap if you must, but there has to be a cheaper, more natural alternative.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I've spent hundreds of hours of reading and experimentation time trying to find the answer you're looking for. I have not found a silver bullet to solve this problem. IME, you have to compromise on at least one of the following:

1) Cost
2) Convenience/Negative side effects

For instance:

• an RCSD is low cost, but it's not convenient - it takes up room in the tank.
• An above-tank flush-valve dump tank is cheap, but they won't work if you don't have a spot to put one, and they produce noise/bubbles.
• A valve-actuated above-tank surge avoids the bubbles and noise, but is more expensive and harder to DIY since you have to devise a control for the valve.
• A VFD-controlled closed loop is cheaper than an Oceans Motions device, but requires a significant DIY investment, so it's not convenient for the typical hobbyist.
• An Oceans Motions is convenient and has no real negative side effects, but is not cheap.

And so on. . .

 

[BeanAnimal]

Just to confuse things a little more... I was not suggesting a typical Oceans Motions wave device where flow alternates between enumerated discharge ports, but rather a custom solultion that allows the full flow of a large pump to be quickly REVERSED between 2 to 4 ports. That is each port in the closed loop alternates between suction and discharge. Paul is the guy to talk to if you are actaully interested in details and cost to implement such a system.

Several years ago we discussed (here in the DIY forum i think) the design of many such devices using plungers, screw pumps, etc).

The cost is high, but the effect is amazing as the setup creates a push-pull movement in the tank.

Another very cost effect wave device is the standing wave amplifier created by using a timer to cycle a powerhead or shutter to produce a standing wave in the tank. The drawback is the wear and tear on the pump and the large mass of water sloshing back and forth.

 

[DeepSeaBeauti]

I've spent hundreds of hours of reading and experimentation time trying to find the answer you're looking for. I have not found a silver bullet to solve this problem. IME, you have to compromise on at least one of the following:

1) Cost
2) Convenience/Negative side effects

For instance:

• an RCSD is low cost, but it's not convenient - it takes up room in the tank.
• An above-tank flush-valve dump tank is cheap, but they won't work if you don't have a spot to put one, and they produce noise/bubbles.
• A valve-actuated above-tank surge avoids the bubbles and noise, but is more expensive and harder to DIY since you have to devise a control for the valve.
• A VFD-controlled closed loop is cheaper than an Oceans Motions device, but requires a significant DIY investment, so it's not convenient for the typical hobbyist.
• An Oceans Motions is convenient and has no real negative side effects, but is not cheap.

And so on. . .

Lets put cost aside for a moment. What would your best idea be for good, natural water movement in a crowded 125g long tank? Im always looking for great ideas. Thats why we are all here right. Im struggling to find a good water movement solution, thats why i keep bouncing back and forth with ideas. Id hate to settleing on one, just to find it does not work right, or there is a way better cheaper alternative. I also hate having to add anything to the tank that does not allow it to look natural. i.e. huge power heads inside to move water. Thanks for the list of alternatives.

 

[DeepSeaBeauti]

Just to confuse things a little more... I was not suggesting a typical Oceans Motions wave device where flow alternates between enumerated discharge ports, but rather a custom solultion that allows the full flow of a large pump to be quickly REVERSED between 2 to 4 ports. That is each port in the closed loop alternates between suction and discharge. Paul is the guy to talk to if you are actaully interested in details and cost to implement such a system.

Several years ago we discussed (here in the DIY forum i think) the design of many such devices using plungers, screw pumps, etc).

The cost is high, but the effect is amazing as the setup creates a push-pull movement in the tank.

Another very cost effect wave device is the standing wave amplifier created by using a timer to cycle a powerhead or shutter to produce a standing wave in the tank. The drawback is the wear and tear on the pump and the large mass of water sloshing back and forth.

Do you know of the post that shows this build? And if there are any pictures or videos of the device in action?

 

[BeanAnimal]

If you are serious about the possibility of implementing such a system (and not just kicking tires for the fun of it), you should call Paul. He can explain how such a system would work and where you can find a video or two showing the effect. He will know what you are asking for (reference this thread if needed).

Cost:
I would imagine that the price to implement Paul's design will be very reasonable, but if you are looking for a $200 solution, then you may need to continue looking