Do I need another layer?
- Thread starter DaDaATL
- Start date
DaDaATL
New member
kitty
kitty
I have read of people using it in place of mud, I unfortunately no longer live in atlanta and have moved to chicago. I just wanted to use it as a place to lower nitrates in the fuge. And its super cheap.
kitty
I have read of people using it in place of mud, I unfortunately no longer live in atlanta and have moved to chicago. I just wanted to use it as a place to lower nitrates in the fuge. And its super cheap.
Well I am sure there are some places up in Chicago but at around a buck a lb (unless you have a massive area to fill) you should be able to pick up some sand for pretty cheap. Ive used Caribsea sea floor special grade for it and it comes in a 40lb bag. If 40lbs wont fill up your DSB fug area, I would consider downsizing the DSB since you don't need a massive bed to help with lowering nitrates. I've even seen setups where people used a Sterilite container and put a DSB in that so they could pull it out to siphon detritus from the sump.
coralnut99
New member
If the only reason you're thinking of using it is because it's cheaper than sand, etc., you should think of just biting the bullet and spend a few more bucks on this one. As mentioned it's clay-based and probably has other ingredients that you just don't want to introduce in a SW environment. Did you follow up on the threads where you saw it used to see how it worked out?
DaDaATL
New member
pricey
pricey
not quite, Its like 30 bucks for a 20lb bag, where as other things like cat litter, dolomite, limestone screenings are 2 bucks for like 40lbs. how many bags would I need to do a DSB if I were to get the live stuff in a 20 gallon long fuge?
pricey
not quite, Its like 30 bucks for a 20lb bag, where as other things like cat litter, dolomite, limestone screenings are 2 bucks for like 40lbs. how many bags would I need to do a DSB if I were to get the live stuff in a 20 gallon long fuge?
I've found mud doesn't really have any nitrate lowering benefits that you don't get with a simple DSB of fine arragonite sand. The arragonite does have the benefit that some dissolution will occur and help support pH, something mud or kitty litter won't do. If you do go with kitty litter, be sure it's the old fashioned kind, none of the common clumping or scented litters. I'd also cap it off with some sand.
Where the heck do you buy sand?!?! I dont use Drs FS much but its $35 there and they have $6 shipping right now. Thats $41 for 40lbs. Chicago stores must like to rip you off......LFS in ATL sell if for right at the same price as Drs FS.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...ubref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0967104000000
For a 20L (assuming you want 5-6 inch sand bed) you will need between 70-80 lbs so you talking $80 bucks for a one time purchase of your DSB. In this hobby that isnt that bad when it will also help with pH buffering as well AND you wont have to worry about contaminants as others have stated, I tried to fine nearly pure dolomite and it was nearly impossible. Most have other things in them which are not reef safe. I even tried to get it through a University connection which had access to all kinds of pure minerals. Even then its ungodly expensive to get it without contaminants.
coralnut99
New member
Ther may be some Florida sources I'd trust, but about anywhere else I think you're taking your chances.
Why live sand? Just get dry sand, rinse it well and then seed it with a small amount of sand from the DT. A DSB will take weeks if not months to reduce nitrates if they are high. If its lower trates then it can be a couple of weeks. Adding a large amount of live sand has the ability to cause a mini cycle in a tank so I would be careful with that. I knew one person who added a sand bed to the fuge using live sand and all their fish started dying. Their ammonia was through the roof and it caused a mini cycle in the tank from them stirring up the bags when adding it to the tank. You never know how long the bags have been sitting in a store and within a couple weeks dry sand will be alive.
Haha yes you are confused.
A) Sand made for a reef tank is calcium carbonate based. Sand from HD and Lowes for a sand box is typically silica based sand. The fact of it being dry or "live" doesnt mean jack as to what the composition of the sand is. As I suggested previously, CaribSea seafloor special grade sand is dry and calcium carbonate based. If you get silica based sand it will not help with pH buffering. The calcium carbonate in the reef sand is what helps with this buffering.
B) The cause of the mini cycle with live sand is that you dont know how long the bag has been sitting on a shelf, some of the bacteria might die off in the bag AND there is a bioload (although small) in a bag of live sand. So when you add it and mix it up by dumping it in the sump you are running the risk of releasing that waste from the dead bacteria into the tank. You want to ideally add sand, then water to a tank while mixing up the sand minimally. This is usually not feasible when adding to an existing system.
C) Dry sand has 0 chance of causing a mini cycle if rinsed. You are removing all organics and particulate matter in the sand. If its just sand then there is nothing to feed the ammonia and therefore no cycle.
What are your nitrates currently? A DSB isnt going to fix it quickly so if your trates are high then you should try doing a few larger WC's (never more than 40%) to attempt to lower it through dilution. When trying to lower a param through dilution a few large WC's are more efficient than multiple small ones.
DaDaATL
New member
Haha yes you are confused.
A) Sand made for a reef tank is calcium carbonate based. Sand from HD and Lowes for a sand box is typically silica based sand. The fact of it being dry or "live" doesnt mean jack as to what the composition of the sand is. As I suggested previously, CaribSea seafloor special grade sand is dry and calcium carbonate based. If you get silica based sand it will not help with pH buffering. The calcium carbonate in the reef sand is what helps with this buffering.
B) The cause of the mini cycle with live sand is that you dont know how long the bag has been sitting on a shelf, some of the bacteria might die off in the bag AND there is a bioload (although small) in a bag of live sand. So when you add it and mix it up by dumping it in the sump you are running the risk of releasing that waste from the dead bacteria into the tank. You want to ideally add sand, then water to a tank while mixing up the sand minimally. This is usually not feasible when adding to an existing system.
C) Dry sand has 0 chance of causing a mini cycle if rinsed. You are removing all organics and particulate matter in the sand. If its just sand then there is nothing to feed the ammonia and therefore no cycle.
What are your nitrates currently? A DSB isnt going to fix it quickly so if your trates are high then you should try doing a few larger WC's (never more than 40%) to attempt to lower it through dilution. When trying to lower a param through dilution a few large WC's are more efficient than multiple small ones.
Thank you so much for that explanation. I will try and find the caribsea seaflor tommorow and use that after rinsing it. I can seed it by using by some crushed coral and live rock from my DT. My nitrates are super high, I did a 10% water change a couple days ago and gonna do a 20% tommorow, its the most I can do with the two buckets I have. I was also experimenting w/ sugar dosing after reading up on it. I had a really good response from my corals but a new pair of clowns were breathin heavy, could be that they arent used to the high nitrates levels while my other fish got used to it or could just be the sugar dosing, either way, I stopped. My chaeto has managed to bring my phosphates down to zero and 3/5 mangroves have sprouted roots but I'm not expecting much from them. So hopefully the w/c's, along with the chaeto, mangroves and the new dsb will keep them in control. How many bags of the seaflor 30lb bags would be sufficient for a DSB in a 20 gallon tank?
