Do not use club soda for euthanizing

[ladyshark]

Based on advise from poster in this forum, I just used the club soda method to euthanize him. My fish panicked and seemed desparate to get out of the water. It was horrible.

After about a (long) minute he seemed dead, but still twitching. As I look over to him now, still very minor twitching (10 minutes later).

It appears to be a slow, uncomfortable (not sure about pain) death. I am horrified, and will never forget it or forgive myself.

DO NOT USE CLUB SODA. WHAT A DISASTER!

Those of you giving advise, please, please know that people like me without a lot of experience are relying on you, this is our research.

Please, please be specific, don't add things later as an afterthought and assume we know what you mean.

Someone is going to tell me I did something wrong. Please don't. I am devastated.

 

[Dmoody]

Hmmm... Don't really know what to say. Was there a reason to kill your pet?

 

[gone fishin]

^^^^^ +1

 

[ladyshark]

Yes , of course, that goes without saying. Gimme a break. I would hardly be as upset as I am if I didn't care deeply about this fish or any other pets. The decision to euthanize is not one that I take lightly. I labored over this decision and studied various threads, including treatment, diagnosing and determining when to euthanize, then how. And tried treatment, of course. I came to the conclusion that the fish would not get better and wanted to end its life humanely. The way I did it was a HUGE mistake.

 

[sandwi54]

I have euthanized a few fish before and have always used the freezing method.

 

[ladyshark]

This is the thread I was working off of==http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2250481&highlight=euthanize

A lot of good ideas (some not so much)---I was afraid of freezing, as some people think its painful (most don't).

Very hard decision--I think I am taking this one hard because its the first fish I had to treat in a hospital tank with antibiotics--I was really hopeful, but it wasn't going to help.

Its a bummer....

 

[scolley]

IMO there are two totally different topics that could be discussed here...

Is club soda a good was to kill (euthenize) fish?
Should you ever kill (euthanize) fish?

If we can keep this on topic - which is about the merits of club soda as a method - a possible outcome is that fewer fish will suffer needlessly.

But if this degrades into off topic discussions on whether hobyiests SHOULD euthanize (kill) fish, then we are condemning fish to death by club soda. Because whether we like it or not, killing fish will continue in this hobby.

Maybe we can reduce suffering by allowing this topic to remain on the topic of the merits of using club soda.

My two cents.

 

[bugs713]

Years ago, I had an 8" oscar get tore up by a large Channel Catfish and was instructed by a LFS to place him in a bucket of pure bleach which would put him out of his misery quickly. This took more than 5 minutes before he stopped thrashing around.... it was terrible!

This Oscar had most of his scales tore off and lost his float bladder, to he needed to be euthanized; another LFS had suggested that I place him in a bag and whack the bag - this would have been quick and much less painful than the bleach!!

I have since read about the freezing method, amoung others... and also the use of Clove Oil:http://www.oscarfishlover.com/helpful-articles/euthanize-fish
I believe this to be the best and quickest method to euthanize a beloved fish and I have it on hand just in case.

Sorry for you loss!

 

[ladyshark]

Thanks bugs, sorry to hear you went through a similar trauma--its pretty horrible to see that, esp. when you think you are doing the right thing.

I actually went to a couple of different stores looking for clove oil, as I had read about that, but no luck in my area. I will keep looking, although I pray I never have to deal with this decision again.

I am glad I tried to treat him, and learned a lot about this, so I feel much more prepared if I need to set up a hospital tank in the future. Also, learned a lot about quarantines--I have lucked out so far, but am convinced that it is only a matter of time before I purchase a fish with issues.

Keeping fish is a huge responsibility and I am reminded not to become complacent.

As far as club soda is concerned, I had read that some folks add it to the tank water and the CO2 causes the fish to go to sleep, then more is added and the fish passes. That sounded like a reasonable and peaceful way to do this. I think I may have added it too quickly---I certainly did not expect the reaction I saw. I think looking back that the fish did "fall asleep" fairly quickly, but not instantaneous, and the sudden reaction of the fish is the complete opposite of what I expected or intended.

 

[alprazo]

Finquel aka tricaine is the gold standard for anesthesia and euthanasia for fish. I would not use anything else.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I have euthanized a few fish before and have always used the freezing method.

Me too.

To the OP: Remember this is a form, not a series of discussions led by experts. Any member can post opinions, experiences, etc. You can't count on any one response to give you the best answer. If you just picked out one response and went with it; obviously more research on your part was needed. Any forum, on any topic will have flaws; just look at the way garlic is so widely believed to cure ich. I can't even imagine how club soda would humanely kill a fish. Putting a fish in FW with a zillion bubbles flooding his gills? Doesn't that just sound absurd, or is it me? In addition to our forum; I'd sure read a couple of good books on our hobby. You can't learn this hobby one question at a time.

 

[Papadoum]

If it was so feisty and thrashing around in club soda maybe you could of left it alone and a strange phenomenon may have occured: healing

Its an ability all living organisms have in them that can occur given the right conditions. For fish that would be clean water and food.

 

[ladyshark]

I can't even imagine how club soda would humanely kill a fish. Putting a fish in FW with a zillion bubbles flooding his gills? Doesn't that just sound absurd, or is it me?

A recent poster to the thread I referenced earlier in this thread stated this:
_____________________
In a lot of animals an excitatory phase is very common before sedation takes effect. That is what you were probably seeing in your fish.

The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) has some guidelines for what it considers acceptable euthanasia. It divides the process into mainly 2 sections chemical vs physical. I'll try to highlight what it is recommended per the AVMA Guidelines for the Euthanasia of Animals: 2013 Edition

......

b) Carbon dioxide. Immersion in CO2-saturated water causes narcosis and loss of consciousness after several minutes. Some species may exhibit hyperactivity prior to loss of consciousness.

........
_______________

Anecdotally, more than one poster to that thread indicated use of club soda with success, describing that the CO2 caused the fish to fall asleep then pass. Seemed like, and may be, a reasonable and humane way to euthanize.

I just wanted to share my experience so others could consider it when faced with the difficult decision to euthanize.

 

[HumbleFish]

b) Carbon dioxide. Immersion in CO2-saturated water causes narcosis and loss of consciousness after several minutes. Some species may exhibit hyperactivity prior to loss of consciousness.

No offense, but the whole "loss of consciousness after several minutes" and the possibility of "hyperactivity" before finally losing consciousness... not the way I'd wanna go... just sayin'

 

[scolley]

FWIW I think it's important to understand that the AVMA recommendation to put fish in 'CO2 saturated' water is NOT the same as putting a fish in club soda. At least not when the club soda is carbonated freshwater, of indeterminate water chemistry vs. carbonating some of the water that a saltwater fish was already acclimated to.

Seems like I'm mincing words here, but I'm sure the distinction is hugely important to the fish. How would a saltwater fish in any given tank like being tossed in a bucket of decaffeinated tap water? Add CO2 to that, and that's what we are talking about. Carbon injecting the water they are already in is a COMPLETELY different thing, and would be more consistent with the AVMA recommendation.

 

[ladyshark]

No offense, but the whole "loss of consciousness after several minutes" and the possibility of "hyperactivity" before finally losing consciousness... not the way I'd wanna go... just sayin'

Completely agree. I had not read this information before hand, just today. Had I known about the hyperactivity and several minutes before losing consciousness, would have never considered it, as the goal is to be quick.

Also, to clarify, I added the carbonation to tank water--did not dump the fish into club soda by itself.

I am even more curious now as to the folks that say they use club soda successfully. Two or three folks seem comfortable with it--not me.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Both ethics and science are involved on this thread. Funny, we're having broiled Orange Roughy tonight. Wonderful fish when broiled with a tiny bit of garlic, paprika, and a bit of tarragon (A wonderful herb (spice?) for broiled fish. These fish are caught with trawlers and die in a pile of fish . Doesn't bother me at all. But I just don't like having to kill one of my own fish.

I hate to say it, but there are several ways to instantly kill a fish. They are probably painless, but not pretty.

 

[E36328i]

I would recommend clove oil as well. Also the stuff Alprazo mentioned can be bought from DrFosterSmith for a very reasonable price and is very effective. Keep both on hand; they are valuable. Another benefit to both is besides painless anesthesia, you can sedate fish to inspect wounds/apply ointments. Just be sure you look up the correct dosage.

Sorry to hear about your fish. I would imagine the discomfort may have been attributed to the pH shock from CO2.