shadowmonster
New member
Isn't this a hobby? Aren't some people better at certain ones than others? (point blank)
Do you run your RO/DI all the time?
- Thread starter exsequor
- Start date
Isn't this a hobby? Aren't some people better at certain ones than others? (point blank)
shadowmonster
New member
"I left the house today, there was this black guy that followed me. I call him Leroy. When it's cloudy he goes home..."
tkeracer619
New member
If you have low pressure go for it, I love mine. You do need a pressure gauge to run a booster pump. If you have chloramines it will impact the ability for the prefilters to do their job.
exsequor
New member
Wheere should I buy the pressure guage like BRS? I can't decide on the BRS kit for $149 shipped vs amazon which will cost $112 shipped for the pump, ac adapter, and 3/8 to 1/4" converters (it's a 3/8" model instead of the 1/4").
BRS is appealing because it's made for 1/4" units and it comes with a few accesories you really can't get elsewhere besides the mount, but since I'm running it in a detatched garage, sound really is not an issue.
Think I should save the $35+ dollars and go with amazon or just get the 1/4" booster kit for $149 on BRS?
BRS is appealing because it's made for 1/4" units and it comes with a few accesories you really can't get elsewhere besides the mount, but since I'm running it in a detatched garage, sound really is not an issue.
Think I should save the $35+ dollars and go with amazon or just get the 1/4" booster kit for $149 on BRS?
CStrickland
New member
I think you're jumping the gun a little.
Some of these solutions assume you have a pressure problem, but that's not a given. Most people on regular water supply need to throttle down the pressure into their unit, not increase it by upping tube size or adding pumps. And even that can depend on other factors like the water temperature (because cold water is thicker so it has to push harder through the membrane). Though for people on wells, it's common to need a booster.
If you want to get the best performance out of your rodi, it's important to understand what these variables do in practice. Pressure as measured on a gauge tells you two things: whether your prefilters are used up, and if you are in range to keep the membrane in shape. As the sediment filter and carbon clog up, the psi drops because the gauge is after them. The membrane needs enough 'force' to push clean water through it and also have the dirty water sortof rinse it as it passes over and down the drain.
Idk about your unit but mine runs best at 70-80 psi. Too much willl burn out the membrane, too little will let it clog. That info should be iavailable from the manufacturer, who will probs sell you a gauge and tell you how to instal it. Until you know what you're working with, just buffing the pressure on a rodi would be kinda like putting jet fuel ina car. You'll go fast for a while, and then need to replace the whole engine.
To get a feel for how your unit is running you need to take a few measurements:
- Tap water temperature after running the water 10 minutes
- psi
- waste ratio
- chlorine/chloramine for both tap and waste water
- tds for both tap and pre-di
You test the temp with a thermometer; the psi with a gauge before the membrane; the waste ratio by measuring how much clean water the unit makes in a minute, and how much waste water (you collect each for a minute and use a measuring cup); chlorine with strips; and tds with a meter.
For the amount of water it sounds like you need, I think it would be more than worth your time to get those readings in range, both to save money on replacing filters and hassle waiting for the storage to fill. It's not as complicated as it sounds
Some of these solutions assume you have a pressure problem, but that's not a given. Most people on regular water supply need to throttle down the pressure into their unit, not increase it by upping tube size or adding pumps. And even that can depend on other factors like the water temperature (because cold water is thicker so it has to push harder through the membrane). Though for people on wells, it's common to need a booster.
If you want to get the best performance out of your rodi, it's important to understand what these variables do in practice. Pressure as measured on a gauge tells you two things: whether your prefilters are used up, and if you are in range to keep the membrane in shape. As the sediment filter and carbon clog up, the psi drops because the gauge is after them. The membrane needs enough 'force' to push clean water through it and also have the dirty water sortof rinse it as it passes over and down the drain.
Idk about your unit but mine runs best at 70-80 psi. Too much willl burn out the membrane, too little will let it clog. That info should be iavailable from the manufacturer, who will probs sell you a gauge and tell you how to instal it. Until you know what you're working with, just buffing the pressure on a rodi would be kinda like putting jet fuel ina car. You'll go fast for a while, and then need to replace the whole engine.
To get a feel for how your unit is running you need to take a few measurements:
- Tap water temperature after running the water 10 minutes
- psi
- waste ratio
- chlorine/chloramine for both tap and waste water
- tds for both tap and pre-di
You test the temp with a thermometer; the psi with a gauge before the membrane; the waste ratio by measuring how much clean water the unit makes in a minute, and how much waste water (you collect each for a minute and use a measuring cup); chlorine with strips; and tds with a meter.
For the amount of water it sounds like you need, I think it would be more than worth your time to get those readings in range, both to save money on replacing filters and hassle waiting for the storage to fill. It's not as complicated as it sounds
exsequor
New member
Thanks for the info. Ok I checked my spigot psi and it is 48psi. Then checked the end of the ~70' hose where the RO/DI feeds in pressure. Same. 48psi. Then checked temp and tds at both points. Temp as 72 degrees at both points. TDS was 45 at point 1 and 52 at point 2.
I think I need a booster pump.
I think I need a booster pump.
tkeracer619
New member
48 is weak. How old is your house? Do you know the type of plumbing used?
exsequor
New member
House is in Old Colorado City. House was claimed to have been built in 1945. I do not believe the guts of the plumbing have been ever updated to my knowledge at least, but the whole house has been done in terms of it being fully remodeled by me and new fixtures/spigots. But I never needed to know the pressure until now. I'm surprised the water was 72 degrees coming outside here in Oct, even though it did reach 84 degrees+ in the shade today in CS.
But I'm still surprised the temp is so high (good). It maay because the water for OCC is stored on the mesa ridge hill in above ground cylinder containers for the community (I believe), unless the temp goes down drastically once true winter occurs. You're here in CO so you know all about the nice weather throughout the nation really this Oct.
But I'm still surprised the temp is so high (good). It maay because the water for OCC is stored on the mesa ridge hill in above ground cylinder containers for the community (I believe), unless the temp goes down drastically once true winter occurs. You're here in CO so you know all about the nice weather throughout the nation really this Oct.
tkeracer619
New member
Yup, it was awesome yesterday. Gf and I are headed to elitches tomorrow
In that case I'd just get a booster pump. Some homes have a pressure regular for water but in an old home I wouldn't even think about messing with that. A booster will get you where you want to be.
In that case I'd just get a booster pump. Some homes have a pressure regular for water but in an old home I wouldn't even think about messing with that. A booster will get you where you want to be.
CStrickland
New member
Yup, that's really low pressure. I'd go for the booster.
Your tds is really low, that's great because you won't have to spend a lot of filters and resin
If the water temp changes a lot with the seasons you might consider a valve on the waste line. I'm in Boston and I put one on and it made a big diff in my yield. In the winter my water comes in at below 50 degrees, it doubled the time to make water. Or to put it another way, because the water was 'thicker' twice as much was going down the drain. now I close the valve in the winter and open it in the spring, and I always get a gallon of water for every 3 gallon wasted. This also lessens the burden on my sediment and carbon filters, since they are treating all the water including what the membrane will reject.
Your tds is really low, that's great because you won't have to spend a lot of filters and resin
If the water temp changes a lot with the seasons you might consider a valve on the waste line. I'm in Boston and I put one on and it made a big diff in my yield. In the winter my water comes in at below 50 degrees, it doubled the time to make water. Or to put it another way, because the water was 'thicker' twice as much was going down the drain. now I close the valve in the winter and open it in the spring, and I always get a gallon of water for every 3 gallon wasted. This also lessens the burden on my sediment and carbon filters, since they are treating all the water including what the membrane will reject.
exsequor
New member
On your waste line valve are you turning the pressure down or turning it off completely in order to compensate for the colder "thicker" water?
Heck ya man have fun I haven't been to elitches in a grip, but we go up to DT Denver still and hit up the young kid friendly attractions, except for those times I'm able to slip away, but usually those times are out of state.
Ya the house is "newer" for the neighborhood, since a lot of the houses in this neighborhood were built just before or after the turn of the century, but this house is old enough where it's still likely restricted plumbing wise, and honestly 48psi is pretty good for conventional purposes, it's just for RO/DI's it is not ideal at all, unless, say all I was trying to do was make drinking water, in which case I wouldn't have a 150GPD unit :rolleye1:
Heck ya man have fun I haven't been to elitches in a grip, but we go up to DT Denver still and hit up the young kid friendly attractions, except for those times I'm able to slip away, but usually those times are out of state.
Ya the house is "newer" for the neighborhood, since a lot of the houses in this neighborhood were built just before or after the turn of the century, but this house is old enough where it's still likely restricted plumbing wise, and honestly 48psi is pretty good for conventional purposes, it's just for RO/DI's it is not ideal at all, unless, say all I was trying to do was make drinking water, in which case I wouldn't have a 150GPD unit :rolleye1:
CStrickland
New member
My pressure is always 80psi (well, until my sediment filter needs to be changed. My water has very low tds but lots of sediment from the old pipes). Both the pressure incoming, and the waste line restriction affect how hard the water is pushed through the membrane, but you don't treat them as interactive. First you get the incoming pressure where it needs to be, and then you adjust the restriction so that the correct amount of water is forced through.
Rodi units come with restrictors already, usually before the di but it doesn't matter as long as it's after the membrane. Some of them are owner adjustable. It's like a tiny little tube inside the hose, the longer the tube the more restriction. So people can trim it shorter if they live in warm places, or keep a pair of restrictors and swap out a long for short one with the seasons.
My valve works the same way, by closing it some I am adding resistance to the waste line, pushing more water through the membrane. But you need enough pressure in the first place for the whole thing to work right and to keep the membrane clear.
Buckeye Hydro
.Registered Member
Some comments for you:
We also run into this problem when people use those little self-piercing saddles to tap into their plumbing - and it is one of the reasons we never recommend them. The RODI system can pull water through the tube faster than water can make it through the little pierced hole - and this results in low (dynamic) pressure issues. Over time that little hole in the pipe wall gets even smaller as scale build up on the edges of the hole.
Another issue - I didn't see anywhere in the thread where you mentioned the specifics on your membrane. Is it a Filmtec 100 gpd relabeled as a 120 gpd? There is a popular vendor that promotes 90 gpd membranes - there really no such thing - it is a re-labeled 75 gpd membrane where the vendor tells you to run it at 10 psi higher than the manufacturer's spec. Same thing here - if you run a 100 gpd Filmtec at 60 psi rather than 50 psi, and you have factory spec temperature, guess what? It will product 125 gpd. What I'm really wondering is what is the manufacturer's pressure spec on your membrane? Our 150 gpd membranes for instance are spec'ed at 65 psi, rather than the more common 50 psi for lower gpd membranes. So in your case, we don't know 1) what the membrane requires, and 2) what pressure you're providing to the membrane. Without that info it's hard to say too much about why the system may not be running as well as it could.
Russ
. Great insight! You need two "tools" to run your system, and a pressure gauge is one of them. Our pressure gauge add on kits are very inexpensive and are super easy to install. No reason not to have a pressure gauge. Without it you're "flying blind."
Having designed, and built, and sold, and installed thousands of RO and RODI units, this is not our experience. Few households have too much pressure. Remember that UPC (Plumbing Code) calls for a max pressure in residences of 80 psi.
If you have 70 feet of 1/4" tube feeding your RODI system you will absolutely lose pressure. That tubing needs to be switched to 3/8" as someone suggested earlier in the thread. We use 3/8" on installations where the feedwater tube is anything over about 20 feet. Also - make sure you understand the difference between STATIC pressure, and DYNAMIC pressure. My guess is that you were measuring static pressure - the pressure in the tube when the system IS NOT running. If you measure dynamic pressure, meaning the pressure in the tube when the RODI is running - doing it's best to pull pressure and flow out of the tube - you'll find you might have 48 psi at the plumbing and something much lower - like 35 psi at the system.
We also run into this problem when people use those little self-piercing saddles to tap into their plumbing - and it is one of the reasons we never recommend them. The RODI system can pull water through the tube faster than water can make it through the little pierced hole - and this results in low (dynamic) pressure issues. Over time that little hole in the pipe wall gets even smaller as scale build up on the edges of the hole.
Flow restrictors should never be installed between the RO membrane and the DI stage. Restrictors are installed only on the concentrate (aka waste water) tube.
Another issue - I didn't see anywhere in the thread where you mentioned the specifics on your membrane. Is it a Filmtec 100 gpd relabeled as a 120 gpd? There is a popular vendor that promotes 90 gpd membranes - there really no such thing - it is a re-labeled 75 gpd membrane where the vendor tells you to run it at 10 psi higher than the manufacturer's spec. Same thing here - if you run a 100 gpd Filmtec at 60 psi rather than 50 psi, and you have factory spec temperature, guess what? It will product 125 gpd. What I'm really wondering is what is the manufacturer's pressure spec on your membrane? Our 150 gpd membranes for instance are spec'ed at 65 psi, rather than the more common 50 psi for lower gpd membranes. So in your case, we don't know 1) what the membrane requires, and 2) what pressure you're providing to the membrane. Without that info it's hard to say too much about why the system may not be running as well as it could.
Russ
Buckeye Hydro
.Registered Member
What you're talking about is called an Adjustable Flow Restrictor. Years ago, we used to include them as a stock item on all our RODI units. But over time we found that because folks didn't read the instructions, or really didn't understand what the restrictor did, many users would end up over-restricting the waste water - or even closing it off entirely! The system will run without any waste water, and you'll see a huge jump in pressure on the gauge, but in short order you'll ruin the membrane. Our commercial RO systems all use an adjustable restrictor. Here's the Precision Needle Valve we occassionally use on the residential-scale systems common in the reefing world:
Russ
exsequor
New member
Thanks for the even further info I really appreciate it!
Update: I got up to about 90GPD production max. This required the installation of the Aquatec 8800, which I plumbed up simply on the city water line in 1/4" to 1/4" (I actually bought the 3/8" model and use 1/4" to 3/8" elbow converters.
I went from never having a stock pile at the beginning of this thread. Since the start of th is thread I added a 55g DT to my collection of salt aquariums.
So my daily water requirements for evap and water changes is higher then ever.
So here's where I am at storage wise. I've got x6 32g containers filled with RO/DI, 3x 45g containers filled with RO/DI, and then I've got 200g drum tank filled with RO/DI. I've since had to turn off my RO/DI and water and wait until I use up all this water. Or sell some water haha. Guess you could say my problem has completely 180'ed since I first made this thread!
If anyone has any questions on my steps to get where I did, I'd be happy to answer and address them
Update: I got up to about 90GPD production max. This required the installation of the Aquatec 8800, which I plumbed up simply on the city water line in 1/4" to 1/4" (I actually bought the 3/8" model and use 1/4" to 3/8" elbow converters.
I went from never having a stock pile at the beginning of this thread. Since the start of th is thread I added a 55g DT to my collection of salt aquariums.
So my daily water requirements for evap and water changes is higher then ever.
So here's where I am at storage wise. I've got x6 32g containers filled with RO/DI, 3x 45g containers filled with RO/DI, and then I've got 200g drum tank filled with RO/DI. I've since had to turn off my RO/DI and water and wait until I use up all this water. Or sell some water haha. Guess you could say my problem has completely 180'ed since I first made this thread!
If anyone has any questions on my steps to get where I did, I'd be happy to answer and address them
