Does this sound like a lack of nutrients?

AkaSlyGuy

AkaSlyGuy

New member
I have recently (last month or so) been having problems with most corals not showing much new growth, and many of my sps suffereing from STN. The tank is 180g and 1.5 years old, but most of the rock and some corals are from a 100g that was 4 years old.

Honestly I started noticing some issues when I switched to Tropic Marin Bio-Active salt a few months back. I have since read posts about others having STN and other issues with this salt. I did mix the previous salt and new salt together the first few water changes to hopefully avoid a drastic change.

Tank Info:
Ca= 430 (salifert)
Alk= 10 (salifert)
Mg= 1410 (salifert)
Nitrates= undetectalbe (salifert, API)
Ph4= undetectable (salifert, API, New Hanna meter)

3- 250w lumenbrite minis with Radium bulbs. (changed 3 months ago and run 6 hours a day)

VHO actinis (run 5 hours)

Dose BRS 2-part (250ml per day to keep Alk and Ca steady)

ATB 1050a skimmer
Tank Temp: 78.5-80
Ph: 7.96-8.25

I did run some carbon for about 5 days just in case some coral toxins were building up but I don't normally run Carbon. However I have bought a new BRS reactor for carbon and phosban reactor for GFO, but I did not want to start those up and add any sudden changes while this was happening.

Nothing new was added to the tank that would have sparked this. I just added some fish to increase my bio-load this weeeknd.

After searching posts here I am starting to lean towards not enough nutrients in the water. I do not have any detectable phosphate or nitrates. I also do not feed very much, but I am stating to think I may need to increase it. I have fragged all of the corals that were losing tissue from the base up, but most of the frags lost tissue even when fragging far away from the effected parts of the coral. I dipped some in Revive also, didn't help. I have lost an ORA Red Planet, Borellis, Lokini, Pink Lemonade, and a few unknowns over the last couple months. Some corals are still (knock on woood) doing good...Pink Milipora, encrusting montiporas, monti caps, birds nest, lps, and leather.

Any ideas to help me narrow this down. Do you feel it could be lack of nutrients? I just started dosing small amounts of brightwells coral amino, and increased my fish feeding a little. I know nothing GOOD happens fast in this hobby, so I am trying to take slow steps to recover.

Thanks for any ideas, or ask me any questions about anything I may have left out.

Joe
 
There will be many different opinion on this topic, but IMO alk at 7-9 is more than adequate, 10 is a bit on the hide side. But I don't think this is your issue.

I used bio actif too, and recently decided to switch to IO as according to my measurements bio actif had 0.03-0.05 PO4.

Do you have adequate flow in your tank? this is very important for healthy corals.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I have 2 Vortech MP40s plus 2 other powerheads. I was hoping when I got the new hanna meter that it was going to tell me something different than the salifert test on phosphate, just so I would possible have something to put my finger on. I may let my alk slowly lower to 8-9 in the near future.

I am currently using Red Sea Coral Pro salt at 1.026 changing 30 gallons every 2 weeks.
 
Personally I don't think ( from what I read above) that your issue is lack of nutrients. You are not running GFO, pellets and I assume not dosing manually carbon ( vodka or vinegar) thus unlikely you are depriving the system from nutrients.

Are you experiencing any algae/cyano issue?

Are you sure about your salinity, are you using a refractometer?

Another potential issue is some sort of bug, but can't help you there, not an expert in that area.
 
Are you feeding your corals?

I was having issues with slow growth and could not figure it out... Started feeding the corals a mixture of different foods very slowly at first and I have seen my stuff explode. I have still been able to keep Phosphate and Nitrates at zero so far. Started running carbon to help fight any organics.

I also agree above that 10dKh is a bit high and also curious about proven salinity...
 
I do use a refractometer, and I use calibration solution before each water change.

About feeding the corals. In the past I have not specifically put food in the water for corals very often. Not on a consistant basis. I do feed the original blend of Rods food from time to time. And I just bought some Roti-feast that I am going to use at about half dose a couple times a week. I know the worst thing to do is throw a bunch of different things at a problem so I have been trying to go slow. Like I said I bought some HC GFO from BRS that I WAS going to try a little bit of. Do you think it would do more harm than good? I do have a little cyano on a few spots of sand, and a little in the refugium with my cheato and other macros. Probably the most obvious algae is some brown waffer algae that is hard to get rid of and some bubble algae popping up here and there.

This just baffles me because it was coasting along so well with ALL my corals growing and doing great. I would frag them and a few days later the cuts would be healed up and growing. I can't seem to find that spot again. Now I frag someting and it does not spread at the base or grow.

Actions for now:

I am going to turn off my alk dosing and let it slip down to the 8.5-9 mark. Will only take about 2 days at the rate it changes.

Going to check my refractometer against a nice glass hydrometer I have packed away.

Any suggestions on starting up my GFO or GAC?



Anything else?
 
Try some GFO, start with low dose and rump it up to the recommended level over time. If I were you, would also increase frequency of water change. You mentioned 30g every other week, which is 16%. I would do 10% weekly using a different mix than bio actif.

Bed time for me now in Brussels, but pm me if you need more help in coming days
 
I went ahead and started up my GFO today. I only used half the dose that BRS calculated for my size tank. Should I go ahead and start up my GAC too, or let some time pass? I figured I would use half dose on that too. What do you think?

Joe
 
How many fish do you have and how often do you feed them? Do you have a fuge? Your alk is fine as long as you keep it constistent then there's really nothing to worry about. ime
 
SaltwaterAdict--This is an area I am concentrating on more. I went for a long time with a pretty low bio load as far as fish went. That on top of only feeding every other day or so, and most of that time was just flake or pellets, seems to be a factor of how I got in this situation today. As stated above, I have a 180, and only had a couple of clowns, royal gramma, couple wrasses, and a really small hippo tang. It coasted this way for months. No additions of fish or corals, only bi-weekly water changes. Now I have added a few more fish to the tank and have started feeding more variety of foods for my fish more often (going slow, I know everything has to catch up).

I do have a fuge that I grow cheato and other macros in. I cut off my dosing pump for Alk and when the tank naturally drops to about 8-9 I will turn it back on. Should take a 2-3days. GFO is now running at half the dose of the BRS website. I will probably let it run for a week then hook up my GAC reactor....or should I do it different?

Joe
 
Joe, is the necrosis you are experiencing widespread in the tank, or confined to small areas, and is occurring slowly or visibly fast?
 
It has been widespread. Some up high, some on the sand, left side, right side. The frags I have made I placed them in different places in the tank and several of them wasted away. I would say it has been occurring slowly. When I first notice one, it may take it a week to spread from the bottom of the coral to the top. The top half, and pieces I frag look perfectly healthy. Good color, polyps out.... But, knock on wood, like I said I lots that have shown now signs of anything, with the exception of not growing much lately and several looking pale.

Joe
 
I am thinking on geting a green bubbel tiped anemone and i have a blue tang, yellow tang blue and black damsel and a algy graser and geting a blue throted trigger and 2 osalaris clown fish will the green bubbeld tiped anemone eat eny of my fish in my 40 gal tank
 
I would not run GFO now....Check salinity first...Check for any bugs by dipping....Also, leather seems to be toxic releasing coral...
 
AkaSlyGuy said:
It has been widespread. Some up high, some on the sand, left side, right side. The frags I have made I placed them in different places in the tank and several of them wasted away. I would say it has been occurring slowly. When I first notice one, it may take it a week to spread from the bottom of the coral to the top. The top half, and pieces I frag look perfectly healthy. Good color, polyps out.... But, knock on wood, like I said I lots that have shown now signs of anything, with the exception of not growing much lately and several looking pale.

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe, I doubt your issue is lack of nutrients. Necrosis root cause can vary, it can be bacteria, temperature, parameters off the chart, exposure to intense direct flow, i.e. some event which is stressing the corals - but unlikely lack of nutrients. If anything, excess nutrients can potentially caused necrosis. Maybe some of the "active" elements in your prior salt may have caused issues in your specific tank, but there could be many other factors. Now that you changed salt mix, I would increase frequency of water changes for a period of time to replenish what is in the tank. I would also look out for anything which may be causing stress, and as you adjust to the new salt mix, ensure your parameters are rock stable (especially magnesium, calcium and alk) and nutrients undetectable. Flow is key, but make sure corals are not under directly full blast of power heads, and keep an eye on Ph to ensure there are no spikes that may be a root cause issue.

Hopefully things will settle and tank on it's way to recovery. I hope the best for you...marco
 
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