Does UV light help in treatment of Ich?
- Thread starter Rav-65
- Start date
Hey guys... apparently there are different point of view... maybe along the way many people have tried with different degrees of success.... when i post the question, I wanted to find out if there was concrete prove that it would work.... but i guess the same solution applied differently can yield different results... 
Vincent Ho
Vincent Ho
Bomber
10 & Over Club
Vincent
Think of it this way.
If someone hooked up a Sea-clone skimmer to a 100gal tank, they would say that skimmers don't work.
It's a win-win cause bacterial levels in closed systems get rapidly skewed. Organically bound phosphates are highly reactive to UV and will be converted to water soluble phosphates which can be off-gassed in a skimmer. All chemical warfare chemicals produced by corals are also highly photo-reactive when exposed to UV and will break apart immediately. No one has to identify which pathogen they are dealing with, and you can be dealing with several at the same time. Not to mention which method of treatment for which pathogen because the treatments are as different as the pathogens are. If you guess the wrong pathogen and guess the wrong treatment you've wasted your time.
No one has to learn how to operate a quarantine tank, barebottom system with a sponge filter - which is tricky at best.
And again, it works in a reef tank.
This is just my personal opinion. Identifying which pathogen a person has to deal with is way beyond the scope of the average hobbyist. Being able to identify and administer the correct treatment and following that protocol through the duration of the treatment is also beyond that same scope. At best, a UV is a great tool and will provide a great advantage. At the very worst (even not sized or operated right), it does no harm.
Think of it this way.
If someone hooked up a Sea-clone skimmer to a 100gal tank, they would say that skimmers don't work.
It's a win-win cause bacterial levels in closed systems get rapidly skewed. Organically bound phosphates are highly reactive to UV and will be converted to water soluble phosphates which can be off-gassed in a skimmer. All chemical warfare chemicals produced by corals are also highly photo-reactive when exposed to UV and will break apart immediately. No one has to identify which pathogen they are dealing with, and you can be dealing with several at the same time. Not to mention which method of treatment for which pathogen because the treatments are as different as the pathogens are. If you guess the wrong pathogen and guess the wrong treatment you've wasted your time.
No one has to learn how to operate a quarantine tank, barebottom system with a sponge filter - which is tricky at best.
And again, it works in a reef tank.
This is just my personal opinion. Identifying which pathogen a person has to deal with is way beyond the scope of the average hobbyist. Being able to identify and administer the correct treatment and following that protocol through the duration of the treatment is also beyond that same scope. At best, a UV is a great tool and will provide a great advantage. At the very worst (even not sized or operated right), it does no harm.
flyingfish85
New member
ATJ and Bomber,
Your insight is truly invaluable here. I trust both of your opinions and enjoyed reading this post. Early on, I encountered quite an ich problem and ATJ pointed me in the right direction several times. I tried all of the wholistic approaches, steering away from copper treatements and found that while KickIch worked in the short term, the only true cure was to let the fish develop an immunity on their own. Not one of the 11 fish were lost. The light seemed to have no effect on ich, but I have noticed that since it died about a month ago, the amount of skimmate has been reduced considerably. This leads me to believe that whatever was previously being killed off and skimmed, is now growing unchecked.
My question has two parts: a)what is the formula for detemining how stong a UV lamp is required for a given tank; and b) what flow rate is needed to maximize its effectiveness?
Tank specs: 110 gallon salt fish only with a decent bioload; 8 gallon wet/dry; supplemental 4 gallon canister pennplax. The previous UV was only 17 watts and I fear wasn't strong enough for this combination. Any insight will be appreciated.
Your insight is truly invaluable here. I trust both of your opinions and enjoyed reading this post. Early on, I encountered quite an ich problem and ATJ pointed me in the right direction several times. I tried all of the wholistic approaches, steering away from copper treatements and found that while KickIch worked in the short term, the only true cure was to let the fish develop an immunity on their own. Not one of the 11 fish were lost. The light seemed to have no effect on ich, but I have noticed that since it died about a month ago, the amount of skimmate has been reduced considerably. This leads me to believe that whatever was previously being killed off and skimmed, is now growing unchecked.
My question has two parts: a)what is the formula for detemining how stong a UV lamp is required for a given tank; and b) what flow rate is needed to maximize its effectiveness?
Tank specs: 110 gallon salt fish only with a decent bioload; 8 gallon wet/dry; supplemental 4 gallon canister pennplax. The previous UV was only 17 watts and I fear wasn't strong enough for this combination. Any insight will be appreciated.
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jdieck
New member
Well I have been using a 40 watt UV in my 225 24/7 and although I noticed it helps with algae and other things the ich is still there and have been there for a while.
I have estimated that at a minimum I will require 100+ watts unit at about 1000 gal/hr to make a dent on the ich and again will be on ich that is carried away.
So I think both are right. Will UV kill Ich I think yes if the dosage is large enough. Will it kill all ich the answer will be no as there will be enough of it attached to fish or rocks that I do not think all can be carried away.
By the way, I have also noticed that given the heat generated by the UV light, calcium carbonate tends to precipitate in the quartz sleve fairly quickly requiring at least monthly cleaning to keep it transparent enough to be effective.
I have estimated that at a minimum I will require 100+ watts unit at about 1000 gal/hr to make a dent on the ich and again will be on ich that is carried away.
So I think both are right. Will UV kill Ich I think yes if the dosage is large enough. Will it kill all ich the answer will be no as there will be enough of it attached to fish or rocks that I do not think all can be carried away.
By the way, I have also noticed that given the heat generated by the UV light, calcium carbonate tends to precipitate in the quartz sleve fairly quickly requiring at least monthly cleaning to keep it transparent enough to be effective.
ATJ
Premium Member
So you're saying that they've been making these units and people have been buying and using them for decades and it's all a sham?
You're kidding, right? This hobby is littered with products that either don't work at all, or fail to meet the claims of the manufacturer. Ever heard of "Eco Aqualizer"? What about "Geo Liquid"? And then there's all those "reef-safe" "Ich" treatments.
You realize that parasites can be introduced by adding anything - snails, corals, rock, algae, anything - to the system.
Of course, I do. I have researched the subject of parasites thoroughly.
ATJ
Premium Member
I am comparing them to make a point. Just because something has been sold for years it does not validate the product in any way.
I agree that UV sterilizers may do some good, but I disagree they will be a cure all for all parasites and strongly believe that even if implemented correctly will not eliminate all parasites and will have no effect on some parasites (such as Brooklynella).
By the way, you never explained how a UV sterilizer could be effective for a parasite such as Brooklynella which completes his whole life cycle on the fish and transfers directly from one fish to another.
Setting up a quarantine tank is no different than setting up any other tank, is easier than setting up a reef tank and is certainly not "tricky at best".
I agree that UV sterilizers may do some good, but I disagree they will be a cure all for all parasites and strongly believe that even if implemented correctly will not eliminate all parasites and will have no effect on some parasites (such as Brooklynella).
By the way, you never explained how a UV sterilizer could be effective for a parasite such as Brooklynella which completes his whole life cycle on the fish and transfers directly from one fish to another.
Setting up a quarantine tank is no different than setting up any other tank, is easier than setting up a reef tank and is certainly not "tricky at best".
Bomber
10 & Over Club
Then we will agree to dis-agree.
Outside the hobby, UV's are a valuable tool. There are many instances where the "treatment is worse than the cure" and the parasitic meds and treatment protocols for parasites do irreversible damage to the animal that is totally unacceptable.
Outside the hobby, UV's are a valuable tool. There are many instances where the "treatment is worse than the cure" and the parasitic meds and treatment protocols for parasites do irreversible damage to the animal that is totally unacceptable.
SAT
Premium Member
Assuming for the moment that Ich will pass through the unit, you want a dosage of at least 90,000 micro-watts/cm2 (uws) at a high flow rate. That should be sufficient to sterilize the parasites, even if it doesn't kill them. Bomber suggested 5X turnover through the UV, which seems reasonable.flyingfish85 said:
Efficiency of UV units vary quite a bit, so you need to look at the suggested flow rate at a particular dosage. The Aquatic Eco-Systems catalog (http://aquaticeco.com) attempts to show "apples to apples" values for all their units. For instance an 80W SMART unit (EU80P for $729) has a flow rate of 31gpm (1860gph) at 30,000 uws after the rated life of 9000 hours. At 550gph, that gives you (1860*30000/550) = ~101,000 uws. If UV is going to work, that unit should do it.
BTW, the HO units that Bomber suggests don't seem to be available in hobby-sized units. Aquatic Eco-Systems lists a SMART HO unit in the printed catalog, but not on line, which suggests they dopped it.
Note that UV lamps need to be replaced on a fairly regular basis, depending somewhat on the bulb design. The manufacturer should provide guidelines for that.
Also bear in mind that the water is cooling the lamp. It's best to err on the high side for flow for this reason. You should assume that a 80W UV is putting nearly 80W of heat into the tank, not counting the water pump.
flyingfish85
New member
SAT,
Thank you for the information and link. I will check the site and make a decision. It looks as though I was seriously underpowering the tank.
Thank you for the information and link. I will check the site and make a decision. It looks as though I was seriously underpowering the tank.
hi all,
I enjoyed reading all the experiences being shared around here and like to thank everyone for their contributions... a new question being raised is dat the UV light, though may not kill ich effectively, it helps to keep the water at better quality levels... now, some have tried and vouch for it, some have tried and threw their UVs away.... but I guess I'm gonna try it myself, as soon as i catch hold of a good set of UV lights...
Vincent Ho
I enjoyed reading all the experiences being shared around here and like to thank everyone for their contributions... a new question being raised is dat the UV light, though may not kill ich effectively, it helps to keep the water at better quality levels... now, some have tried and vouch for it, some have tried and threw their UVs away.... but I guess I'm gonna try it myself, as soon as i catch hold of a good set of UV lights...
Vincent Ho
mrmadlones
New member
can someone help me out i have a 55 gal reef tank all my fishes died i think it was of ich or parasites i just put two green chromis in it today put theres little white bugs on the glass part of my tank and wanted to know if it will hurt anything and what is it
tankslave
New member
If the little white things are on the glass, and you can see it, its probably not the parasites. If they are moving around then its just some copepods, nothing to worry about, just a cleanup crew.
To answer the other question, listen to the real marine biologist, not ATJ. Its not a waste of money, it will kill at least some of your tank parasites, as well as algae. ATJ apparently has never really tried a UV and/or used it correctly...
To answer the other question, listen to the real marine biologist, not ATJ. Its not a waste of money, it will kill at least some of your tank parasites, as well as algae. ATJ apparently has never really tried a UV and/or used it correctly...
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