Dogface ripped to shreds

[LisaD]

A very sad day - yesterday morning I discovered my favorite fish, the dogface puffer, floating in the tank, mortally injured. He looked at me, grunted a little when I took him out of the tank, but there was noting I could do. The tail was shredded and large chunks were bitten out of the meat of the tail and the side. The fish was nearly eviscerated.

It's been crazy at work, and I've been working late almost every night, so haven't paid as close attention to the tank as usual. I noticed the puffer looking stressed over the last day or two, but it was not injured. My husband said he saw the porcupine puffer aggressively chasing the dogface all over the tank on Friday. I wish he'd called me so I could have run home over work to check on it. I feel really bad. Strongly considering tkaing the porc back to the LFS. The main reason I got it was because I had a gorgeous pink tail trigger that was picking on the dogface. I traded the trigger for the porc, to get a fish that wouldn't pick on the dogface.

Anyone else have this kind of problem? I found out early on that the porc was kind of an SOB, but never thought it would destroy my dogface, since so many people have reported these two species as compatible.

 

[JustinReef]

Oh man Im so sorry to hear this Lisa. As you know I lost mine about a month ago and it's so hard They always seem to be people favorite. This is terrible!

Besides my 130G being too small for a porcupine and my 240 not being set up for a while, I also moved mine to my brothers huge tank because it was getting a little nippy towards the dogface. He wasn't biting too much yet but the aggression seemed to be escalating as he got older. He was about 6-7". They had lived together for over a year before this started. It was like one day the porc just snapped and disliked the dogface.

So it does happen although I think usually they are safe together.

Again Im really sorry to hear this...

 

[Juice It]

I feel for ya. I had the same issue with my dogface last week but like an idiot I thought it had a parasite eating its flesh and it turned out to be my sneaky lunare wrasse. Mine started hovering in the corner for a few days and I never saw anyone bother him until one day of watching from a distance for a while. I took him out and put him in my smaller reef tank so he can heal up. So far he has been his iold self again and is even letting the cleaner shrimp clean him off. He hasn't bothered one thing in the reef. How large is your porcupine and how big was the dogface?

 

[LisaD]

The tank is a 210. The porc is about 5", the dogface was a little bigger.

My puffers weren't together all that long, but the extreme aggression was something new. So maybe porcs do "just snap".

My daughter just told me she thought she saw my Brazilian dragon moray going after the dogface early Sturday morning, so now I'm not sure whether one or both fish finished off the dogface. The eel hasn't bothered any fish, but maybe if the dogface was injured, it might go after it. That could explain some of the larger bites taken out of the fish, since the porc doesn't have the biggest mouth.

I probably should have taken pictures, but I just didn't have the heart. The injuries were really bad. If I had known what was going on, I could have found a temporary tank for the dogface, so I'm feeling really guilty.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13442041#post13442041 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LisaD
The tank is a 210. The porc is about 5", the dogface was a little bigger.

My daughter just told me she thought she saw my Brazilian dragon moray going after the dogface too, so now I'm not sure whether one or both fish finished off the dogface. The eel hasn't bothered any fish, but maybe if the dogface was injured, it might go after it. That could explain some of the larger bites taken out of the fish, since the porc doesn't have the biggest mouth.

I probably should have taken pictures, but I just didn't have the heart. The injuries were really bad. If I had known what was going on, I could have found a temporary tank for the dogface, so I'm feeling really guilty.

Don't feel bad, we all know you would do whatever you could to keep your fish happy. Unfortunately you can't always predict these things. Aggressive fish really are hard to keep. They can be so unpredictable. I noticed today that my Niger Trigger is starting to bully my Green Spotted Puffer all of a sudden. Then its like after seeing the Niger do it, the Burrfish started doing it too

Its so weird how these things work but I bet if the dogface was injured, the eel saw him as easy prey. I also think that if one fish bullies another and the others see it, sometimes they all consider the bullied fish at the bottom of the pecking order.

 

[LisaD]

Thanks Justin. I'm going to rethink my stocking over the next few months. I have a Niger trigger that has to go into the 210 tank - he's outgrown his growout tank. I'm going to wait a little longer to put him in, and will decide what to do with the porc. I really want to keep another dogface, but not if it's going to get beat up or killed.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13442122#post13442122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LisaD
Thanks Justin. I'm going to rethink my stocking over the next few months. I have a Niger trigger that has to go into the 210 tank - he's outgrown his growout tank. I'm going to wait a little longer to put him in, and will decide what to do with the porc. I really want to keep another dogface, but not if it's going to get beat up or killed.

After my dogface jumped, there was no way I could keep a tank without one. I ended up getting another a few weeks later. I still miss my old one but this one has certainly helped.

How attached are you to the porc? Im not so sure I would trust him with another puffer. Its so hard to say though. Especially since the new dogface would be the new fish to the tank. I know in my tank, the fish have made it clear that I cannot add anything new.

You know what I was thinking though...Is there any chance the eel was hungry and did this on his own? I guess that doesn't really make sense though. It sounds like the eel just saw the opportunity to attack an injured fish.

 

[danorth]

The never ending battle with fish!!!

Sorry to hear Lisa, but porcs seem hit or miss with temperment with the sub 5" size. I had P-Diddy, which was my big porc (7.5"), that ate damsels, tails off wrasses,ate a goat fish, and tagged the side of an undy hard enough to leave a hickie. Here look:

 

[T-T-Trigger]

ack, that is a tough one, sorry to hear it Lisa. I have never kept a porc, but still it seems awfully out of character. I have never heard of them killing tankmates in an aquarium. May your puff rest in peace.

 

[elecbzerk]

Sorry for your loss Lisa. Dogface's are so loveable, and great personalities. I would take the porc back to the LFS.

 

[Grouperhead]

Correct me if wrong, but I thought it was generally advised not to keep porcs and dogfaces together because of aggression issues once the two get large? Maybe I just dreamt that up though.

Sorry for your loss , it always sucks losing a fish.

 

[LisaD]

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

Grouperhead, I may have it wrong, but I thought dogface and porcs were generally considered to be among the rare compatible puffer pairings. Both were fairly small, and in a 210 without a lot of other mid-column swimming fish (emperor angel and rabbitfish). I thought I was doing a good job of researching compatibility in planning my stock, but there are no absolutes with some of the aggressive fish, I suppose.

The porc is definitely going, probably next week.

I'm going to find a replacement dogface in time, but want to be sure it's big and assertive enough for the tank. I will add the dogface before the Niger trigger (if I even add the Niger).

Any suggestions for a particular color morph or subspecies of dogface? Or of similar sized/temperament puffers? I want a dogface, not sure whether some of the puffers (dalmation, panda) are truly different species or not.

The trigger is currently in a smaller tank, and has never bothered anything. It will also be the smallest fish in the tank.

 

[LauraCline]

So sorry to hear about your loss. It sounds like you exercised due diligence on your stocking but some fish are just not representative of their species. I once had a Royal Gramma that was a holy terror, it killed a purple firefish and would even attack crabs and snails.

 

[myerst2]

Hey Lisa sorry to hear about your lose... But Puffers as they mature, especially the larger species will become more territorial and another puffer on his turf is seen as competition. So unfortunately you saw the results first hand. All I can say is... It is hurts but take it as a learning experience and try add it to your knowledge for future tank mates. Tim

 

[Mike5252]

Sorry for your loss.

I also have a 210 with a porc and dogface. Both are getting pretty big, should I also be concerned? The only aggression I've noticed was during feeding. Usually as a result of both fish going for the same food.

This has got me thinking, so I have a couple of questions if you don't mind to answer. I'll try not to be too gruesome or rude, but don't response if you don't want to.

1. What do you do with a large fish that is beyond saving? I'm sure this may happen to me at some point in my fish hobby and I would like to know what to do. Is there a way to euthanize a fish?

2. What do you do with a large fish after that? I've never thought about it, but I guess I would bury mine (similar to losing a cat or dog).

 

[Blood For Coral]

Too bad dog faces and porcs are con specifics... the LFS should have asked about your other fish and then mentions that since they belong to the same family and feeding nitch, they are more then likely to be aggressive towards each other.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[AquaKnight]

Sorry to hear about the news.

We just lost one of the our Southern Puffers. We had to seperate them from a slightly larger Burrfish they were nipping. Yesterday the larger of the two Southerns, was going after the smaller one. We thought they were a pair. They were both raised from a tiny pea size. Now I can't find him/her(the smaller one) in the tank.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13447629#post13447629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Blood For Coral
Too bad dog faces and porcs are con specifics... the LFS should have asked about your other fish and then mentions that since they belong to the same family and feeding nitch, they are more then likely to be aggressive towards each other.

Sorry for your loss.

This is not really true. It depends on the individual. It would be much more common to have problems when mixing another arothron puffer with the dogface. Generally mixing a diodon and arothron is fine. But of course like mixing any aggressive fish you never know.

I know someone who has 6 puffers in their 220G...Stars and Stripes, Mappa, 2 dogface, 2 porcupines. Been at least 3 years hes had them together. I had kept a pair of Stars and Stripes and a Porcupine together for 4 years until I moved from Florida to Canada and could not bring them with me. I also know someone who added a second porcupine to his tank and the first one harassed it to death...So it really just depends.

Its just such a shame that this happened to you Lisa.

 

[LisaD]

I agree with Justin, I would not call dogfaces and porcs conspecifics. They belong to different genera. I think I had an unusually mild mannered dogface, it didn't stand up for itself much.

Mike, to answer your questions, though I cringe to do so:

1. What do you do with a large fish that is beyond saving? I'm sure this may happen to me at some point in my fish hobby and I would like to know what to do. Is there a way to euthanize a fish?

2. What do you do with a large fish after that? I've never thought about it, but I guess I would bury mine (similar to losing a cat or dog).

Okay, I was a horrified, squeamish coward. I didn't have anything handy to euthanize the fish, like clove oil or MS22. I couldn't think of how to snap its neck, and couldn't stomach cutting the head off. I couldn't even bear to look at it, so I flushed it. Yes, it was alive, but just barely. I couldn't stand to hear it grunt and see it looking at me. In the future, I will do it differently. I do know better, but I was freaked out by how horrible the damage was to the fish.

Here is a link to a good article on humane euthanasia of fish:
http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81

 

[JustinReef]

It can be such a difficult situation when these kinds of things happen. I always have clove oil on hand just in case.